US Army Jeep with mobile comms

Read Sergeant's post, The Road to Bastogne, for the info you need.

richs26

Read Sergeant's post, The Road to Bastogne, for the info you need.

 

Harold

Thanks, interesting discussion.

The gear on my father's Jeep is bigger than the unit in the photo. My father said he copied encrypted messages in Morse code. I believe it was a WWII version of Krypto communications. He is also wearing a small headset;  not the big clunky things you usually see on WWII radio operators.

I found a kit from Minor, a 1/35 SCR-508 radio set for WWII Jeep that looks like what I see in the photos. 

Also, there doesn't seem to be any kind of tall whip antenna on his Jeep. The Minor kit seems to show a short antenna.

BDelph

Also, there doesn't seem to be any kind of tall whip antenna on his Jeep. The Minor kit seems to show a short antenna.

 

                                                Pros and Cons

The AM radio had a range of 15 miles line-of-sight (LOS) on voice and 30 miles LOS on Morse Code. FM radio had a range of 5 miles LOS with the pros and cons mentioned above. The FM radios were much heavier and therefore not as portable. AM radios could easily be carried on a mans back or buckled into a Jeep. Both were equally valuable in different circumstances.

The short antenna you mentioned is only the base or mast of the antenna, sections were added up to 15 feet for mobile operation and 30 feet for stationary operation depending on what the operator needed.

The phonetic alphabet radio operators used was created because of problems with the quality of communications. So  “A” became Alpha and “B” was Bravo etc. Over the last 70-years the military has maintained the phonetic alphabet although the quality of communications quipment has greatly improved. It’s now refered to as NATO phonetic alphabet and used for communications, code words and names of companies and units like Charlie Company and Delta Force.

Harold

I have two b&w photos. Both only show the rear of the unit, so I don't know what the front looks like. The basic size and proportions looks like the Minor unit I saw. In both photos he has a pad of paper on his lap and a small headset on and a pencil in his hand. It looks like what he always described as he copied Morse code and decoded it by hand. He actually never mentioned doing that work in a Jeep. I always pictured him in a radio room somewhere. 

Your father did the same Army job I did, albeit 40 years earlier.  In fact, it was a picture in the MOS guide of a truck with a hut on the back, filled with radio receivers and collection equipment that made me choose to become an 05H Morse Intercept Operator.  Of course, the real job ended up being in a very large building on a very secure site in Germany, but at least I had the hope of copying code in a truck!  

BDelph, I may have introduced unnecessary confusion when all you’re looking for is a model of the radio your father was using. The SCR-508 FM radio has its transmitter and receiver side-by-side. The SCR-510 transmitter and receiver are stacked, so they look very different, both are FM radios. However, an SCR-506 looks similar in size and shape to a SCR-508, but the 506 is an AM radio not FM. So it’s possible your father was using an FM or AM radio in which case either SCR- 506 or 508 models would serve the purpose.

Harold

Sergeant

BDelph, the SCR-508 that you indicated your father may have used could be mounted in a tank or the back of a Jeep. The photograph below is an SCR-508 mounted in a track vehicle like a tank.

 

 

 

Sergeant

The phonetic alphabet radio operators used was created because of problems with the quality of communications. So “A” became Alpha and “B” was Bravo etc. Over the last 70-years the military has maintained the phonetic alphabet although the quality of communications quipment has greatly improved. It’s now refered to as NATO phonetic alphabet and used for communications, code words and names of companies and units like Charlie Company and Delta Force.

It has evolved over tha last 75 years or so.

The original A-N (Army-Navy) phonetics used Able, Baker, Charlie and so on.

The Brits had a similar, but different, system, as did the Canadians and Anzac.  Interaction with all these groups created the first NATO "standard" phonentics, which also covered numerals.  Hence "Fiver" (so that five was not misrecognised as "fire").  A later iteration included "niner" so that the numeral could not be confused with "nein," German for "no."

Some of the letters had several iterations.  "I" was Item, & Inca, before settling on India.  "P" was Peter, than Paul, before becoming PaPa.

A-N Phnetics, 1941-56
Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog. Easy, Fox, George, How, Item, Jig, King, Love, Mike, Nan, Oboe, Peter, Queen, Roger, Sugar, Tare, Uncle, Victor, William, X-Ray, Yoke, Zebra.

Current NATO:
Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, George, otel, India, Juliet, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, PaPa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, XRAY, Yankee, Zulu.

Aside:  Quebbe is pronounced "keh BECK" in the same was as the Quebeçois say it.

As above, the phonetics lent themselves to lots of things.  That's why Co E, 506PIR, is called "Easy," that was the phonetic for "E."  The fifth Company in a Regiment would today be known as Echo.  The Higgins and Elco motor torpedo boats were known as Peter Tares, which sounds a bit odd to those trained in the modern system.

CapnMac82

 

 

Sergeant

The phonetic alphabet radio operators used was created because of problems with the quality of communications. So “A” became Alpha and “B” was Bravo etc. Over the last 70-years the military has maintained the phonetic alphabet although the quality of communications quipment has greatly improved. It’s now refered to as NATO phonetic alphabet and used for communications, code words and names of companies and units like Charlie Company and Delta Force.

 

 

It has evolved over tha last 75 years or so.

The original A-N (Army-Navy) phonetics used Able, Baker, Charlie and so on.

The Brits had a similar, but different, system, as did the Canadians and Anzac.  Interaction with all these groups created the first NATO "standard" phonentics, which also covered numerals.  Hence "Fiver" (so that five was not misrecognised as "fire").  A later iteration included "niner" so that the numeral could not be confused with "nein," German for "no."

Some of the letters had several iterations.  "I" was Item, & Inca, before settling on India.  "P" was Peter, than Paul, before becoming PaPa.

A-N Phnetics, 1941-56
Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog. Easy, Fox, George, How, Item, Jig, King, Love, Mike, Nan, Oboe, Peter, Queen, Roger, Sugar, Tare, Uncle, Victor, William, X-Ray, Yoke, Zebra.

Current NATO:
Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, George, otel, India, Juliet, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, PaPa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, XRAY, Yankee, Zulu.

Aside:  Quebbe is pronounced "keh BECK" in the same was as the Quebeçois say it.

As above, the phonetics lent themselves to lots of things.  That's why Co E, 506PIR, is called "Easy," that was the phonetic for "E."  The fifth Company in a Regiment would today be known as Echo.  The Higgins and Elco motor torpedo boats were known as Peter Tares, which sounds a bit odd to those trained in the modern system.

 

 

Harold

Sergeant

BDelph, I may have introduced unnecessary confusion when all you’re looking for is a model of the radio your father was using. The SCR-508 FM radio has its transmitter and receiver side-by-side. The SCR-510 transmitter and receiver are stacked, so they look very different, both are FM radios. However, an SCR-506 looks similar in size and shape to a SCR-508, but the 506 is an AM radio not FM. So it’s possible your father was using an FM or AM radio in which case either SCR- 506 or 508 models would serve the purpose.

Harold

 

Just an educated guess, but if he was OSS, they are going to be using HF/AM radios most likely due to unit and mission profile. OSS would be operating far from their next higher element for comms, so would have to rely on sky wave signal. FM radio waves cannot bounce off the ionosphere for sky wave long distance comms due to their physical properties. The higher the frequency, the smaller the physical size of the radio wave. Those go straight thru the ionosphere and keep on going.

I did that sort of commo with a LRS unit for many years. No Morse, but lots of encoding and encrypting as well.

stikpusher

 

 

Sergeant

BDelph, I may have introduced unnecessary confusion when all you’re looking for is a model of the radio your father was using. The SCR-508 FM radio has its transmitter and receiver side-by-side. The SCR-510 transmitter and receiver are stacked, so they look very different, both are FM radios. However, an SCR-506 looks similar in size and shape to a SCR-508, but the 506 is an AM radio not FM. So it’s possible your father was using an FM or AM radio in which case either SCR- 506 or 508 models would serve the purpose.

Harold

 

 

 

 

Just an educated guess, but if he was OSS, they are going to be using HF/AM radios most likely due to unit and mission profile. OSS would be operating far from their next higher element for comms, so would have to rely on sky wave signal. FM radio waves cannot bounce off the ionosphere for sky wave long distance comms due to their physical properties. The higher the frequency, the smaller the physical size of the radio wave. Those go straight thru the ionosphere and keep on going.

I did that sort of commo with a LRS unit for many years. No Morse, but lots of encoding and encrypting as well.

 

I believe the generator on the dedicated radio jeeps was positioned between the seats and was belt driven off a power takeoff. If you go on the G503 forum, there is a whole subforum dedicated to radios.

WillysMB

I believe the generator on the dedicated radio jeeps was positioned between the seats and was belt driven off a power takeoff. If you go on the G503 forum, there is a whole subforum dedicated to radios.

 

Harold

All good helpful information! 

Thank you! 

G503.com

in the picture with all the photo etch above, I think the generator seems to be included in the set.

WillysMB

G503.com

in the picture with all the photo etch above, I think the generator seems to be included in the set.

 

Thanks

BDelph, I opened the LZ Models kit I have which included SCR-506 AM, 508 FM and 510 FM radio sets and was not please with the detail. The Tamiya Willys MB Jeep has very nice detail, that would not be enhanced in my opinion with the quality of the LZ Models product. However, the LZ Models product would be fine in an application were only the front of the radio set is shown.

I searched the internet over the weekend for an alternative to the Minor SCR-508 and could not find anything better. In fact if I decide to use an SCR-508 radio in one of my models I will probably use the Minor product. 

Based on the information provided by Stikpusher I think it’s very likely your father was using an AM radio rather than an FM which you indicated from your father’s picture looks like an SCR-508. Since I could not find an SCR-506 AM set other than LZ Models I really think you only have one option and that is to use the Minor SCR-508 FM radio.

Harold

On the AM/FM issue, I can't speak for sure to WWII, but all the Morse Code I listened to was on Continuous Wave radio (CW, also called Country & Western).  

LonCray

On the AM/FM issue, I can't speak for sure to WWII, but all the Morse Code I listened to was on Continuous Wave radio (CW, also called Country & Western).  

 

Harold

CW is not the frequency range, but the radio setting. Certain military radios have a CW setting in addition to a voice setting. Radios like the PRC-90, the pilots survival radio carried in their vest in the case of downing has a setting for each, while they only have a couple of set frequency ranges to transmit in.

AM, aka HF radios have propagation characteristics that allow them to do long range comms that FM, aka UHF radios cannot do. Sky wave for long range comms being the primary attribute. A signal is bounced off the ionosphere and then the ocean for intercontinental communication. Multiple hops/bounces can be needed to do this. Saltwater is an excellent reflector of radio waves, HF or FM. Surface wave rolls along the ocean surface for far more distance than thye do over dry land. I’ve done FM and HF comms over saltwater that were theoretically outside the range of the manpack  that I was using at the time (low wattage and whip antenna). Positioning on high ground and the ocean reflectiveness to allow the signal to travel to the receiving station were the main factors for good comms.

stikpusher

CW is not the frequency range, but the radio setting. Certain military radios have a CW setting in addition to a voice setting. Radios like the PRC-90, the pilots survival radio carried in their vest in the case of downing has a setting for each, while they only have a couple of set frequency ranges to transmit in.

AM, aka HF radios have propagation characteristics that allow them to do long range comms that FM, aka UHF radios cannot do. Sky wave for long range comms being the primary attribute. A signal is bounced off the ionosphere and then the ocean for intercontinental communication. Multiple hops/bounces can be needed to do this. Saltwater is an excellent reflector of radio waves, HF or FM. Surface wave rolls along the ocean surface for far more distance than thye do over dry land. I’ve done FM and HF comms over saltwater that were theoretically outside the range of the manpack  that I was using at the time (low wattage and whip antenna). Positioning on high ground and the ocean reflectiveness to allow the signal to travel to the receiving station were the main factors for good comms.

 

 

After reading the Technical Manual (TM) for SCR-508 FM radio I don't see a switch for CW on the transmitter or receiver, or any reference to using the radio with a J-45 key necessary for Morse code which indicates to me it’s not designed for that purpose.

http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/Surplus_NATO/AN-VRC-5_SCR-508_SCR-528_serv_user_TM11-600_1947.pdf 

On the other hand, SCR-506 AM radio does have a CW setting on the transmitter and receiver, see photograph below. Plus, there is a few references in the TM regarding a J-45 key. BDelph, I am more confident your father was using an SCR-506 radio for his OSS operation. However, I could not recommend LZ Models SCR-506 and could not find anything else on the Internet. The Minor photo-etched SCR-508 still appears to be the best option because of it’s physical similarity to SCR-506.

http://radionerds.com/images/3/31/TM-11-310-SCHEM.PDF

My receivers were R-390's - too big for jeeps but we had them in trailers too.  Replaced by Racal receivers in the mid-80's but rumor is that the military still has a few.  Their vacuum tubes survived EMP a lot better than newer machinery.  Of course, mine were hooked up to a Wullenweber AN/FLR-9 antenna - I'd love to see THAT in 1/35!