SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Panzer I Ausf. B Gun Type and Placement?

1790 views
7 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2019
Panzer I Ausf. B Gun Type and Placement?
Posted by Leichenmacher on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 8:53 AM

Okay, got another one where I've seen evidence both ways.  I believe the guns used in the Panzer I Ausf. B turret are MG13's.  But I don't know if they are the "standard" length, or the MG13K length (which is shorter).

Also, at least one site said the right gun (what would be the "passenger" side) doesn't stick out as far as the left side... that it's pulled back into the turret more.  And I did find a couple pictures that suggest this correct.

Does anyone know for certain which type of guns where used and is they had an asymmetrical placement?

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 9:49 AM

The MG 13k (kurz or short) is the correct barrel for tank use. Not owning Panzer Tracts 1-1, I can't say for Hilary Doyle, but top-view line drawings by Uwe Feist, George Bradford and Walter Spielberger all show uniform barrel length.

Perhaps it is possible that barrels damaged in combat were replaced with the standard infantry version due to lack of available kurz barrels?

  • Member since
    March 2019
Posted by Leichenmacher on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 11:24 AM

Awesome, thanks!  I found a great video with lots of angles on this and even lots of INSIDE the turret views which do show it was asymmetrical!

https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/panzer-ausf-i-a/

The tank in the video is the Ausf. A version, but I don't think there were any changes to the turret or weaponry between the Ausf. A and B.

Also, this picture of an Ausf. B (I think this is a real "of era" picture?) seems to concur that the right side gun sits deeper in the turret than the left.

I've seen various models and/or drawings done both ways.

This is the article that first suggested to me they were asymmeterically mounted:
https://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/adlersnest/anm35019-20.htm

But the video is the most compelling info I've seen thus far.

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:47 PM

This is the clearest wartime photo I can find, and it does indeed appear to show different barrel lengths. So much for reference drawings....Black Eye

In fact, the photo is good enough that you should be able to use the bipod mounting stud as a reference and simply count the ventilation holes back to the mantlet to determine the barrel placement.

 

  • Member since
    March 2019
Posted by Leichenmacher on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 8:08 AM

That was my thinking exactly!  Funny how so many models and drawings have this wrong!  This picture is CRAZY good!

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 9:56 AM

Please forgive for the late reply, but I do have the Panzer Tracts publication.  All drawings/artwork (both original wartime and modern) show the guns as staggered. 

Quickly skimming through the turret section, there is no direct explanation as to why.   It does state the gun on the left hand side was fixed to the mantlet, while the one on the right was adjustable.

Now there is mention of a counterbalance spring located on the right side of the mantlet to offset the weight of the mg's.  I'm guessing this was not directly in the way of gun, but the attached spent cartridge bag (fitted to the right hand side) would limit how far forward the gun could sit in the mantlet because of that spring?

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:02 AM

It's not every day that three authors are proven wrong at once! Oops

So Hilary Doyle did get it right. Goes to show that one needs to check their references, then check them again....and again. Sometimes one just needs to find the right photo and it changes everything.

Thanks for the confirmation Jack!

Funny that the war-time, German-made drawings on page 52 of Spielberger's Panzer I and II are wrong, I busted out the micrometer and they are not correct.

For that matter, Doyle's 1973 side-view drawing of an Ausf B on page 50 should show the staggered barrel lengths superimposed on each other, (at least as a cut-away view) but since it is a left-side view, it instead shows only the one barrel. If it were a right hand view, it would show this important detail.

 

  • Member since
    March 2019
Posted by Leichenmacher on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 11:53 AM

The video I referenced earlier shows the balancing spring you're talking about, and tons of other minute details on things like the drivers view port, view port latches, etc., etc.  I really wish I'd found that video when I was working on the Panzerjager I... it would have answered so many little "fine detail" questions. 

I'm not familiar with the books you've referenced, but I did have the Nuts & Bolts book for the Panzerjager I.  It was pretty good (but not as good as the video) and it's the late war, 7 sided mantel (vs. the earlier 5 sided one) but was a good overall reference.

Next build is the Marder II, so I will definitely be checking references, then checking them again, and then again!

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.