Cool build Stik, I find it interesting that the Soviets used so many wheeled vehicles after the Second WW. Wonder what took us so long to roll on rubber vss tracked vehicles.

armornut

Cool build Stik, I find it interesting that the Soviets used so many wheeled vehicles after the Second WW. Wonder what took us so long to roll on rubber vss tracked vehicles.

 

Survivability & mobility.

Wheeled armored fighting vehicles don't have the cross country capability that tracked vehicles do. You are more confined to roads or trails with limited cross country traverse.

Wheels are susceptible to damage from bullets or artillery fragments.

Wheeled armored fighting vehicles tend to be lighter and less armored than a fully tracked vehicle.

That is a neat-looking vehicle.

When you set your mind to build armor, you always seem to do it up right.

Very nice build. Getting the wheels to all sit on the ground is always a challenge.

I built the 1/72 version of their kit. Camo can get interesting.

I suppose an advantage of wheeled vehicles is that they can go faster.

Thanks for looking in and commenting guys. 

Armor, Rob nailed the pros and cons of wheels vs tracked. The US Army actually looked at wheeled back in the late 70’s/early 80’s. The 9th Motorized Division was a test bed for that back then. They even looked at getting the LAV at that time as well. But with the main emphasis of Cold War Force on Force vs the Soviets in Europe, and re equipping for that with the the  new Abrams, Bradleys, Blackhawks, Apaches, MLRS, etc. the money was not there. The Stryker vehicle’s are our equivelant to the BTR family. 

Greg, I think the clubs that I belong to, AMPS & IPMS, have really helped to improve my skill level for armor. Nothing beats talking to guys in person and picking their brains over techniques.

GM, yeah this one was really a challenge to get the wheels to all sit right. The resin wheels that I used were particularly challenging on that point. Some of them fit the kit rear hub fine. Others were too small, so I had to use my motor tool to open them up enough to fit right. None of them, worked or non worked, were quite centered. I have to rotate them all to certain positions  to get them sitting on the same level plane.

I remember reading about how the Army was jealous of the type, and in some ways ended up with a much more complicated machine, the Bradley.

Fully amphibious. I believe they could fit in an AN-12, but I may be wrong about that.

Beautifully done all round Stik,per usual. Question on the green, was the call out Russian Green, and if so what did you use for it. I've got a BMP on deck with that color and no Tamiya equivalent.

GMorrison

I remember reading about how the Army was jealous of the type, and in some ways ended up with a much more complicated machine, the Bradley.

Fully amphibious. I believe they could fit in an AN-12, but I may be wrong about that.

 

 

The Bradley was America’s answer to the BMP, not the BTR 60/70/80. And the BTR-60 can probably trace at least “inspiration” to the German WWII Sdkfz 232/234 “achtrads”. The MICV/YPR-765 upgrade of the M113 starting them down the path to the Bradley in the wake of the BMP. It looks like what you’d get if the M113 and the M2/M3 had a baby.

The LAV family is much closer  in concept to the BTR. My understanding of the Stryker base vehicle is an upgrade of the LAV design. 

And yes, I’m pretty sure that the AN-12 can carry the BTR-60/70/80 family. Just like the C-130 and the LAV. The Soviets loved giving their airborne forces good follow on capability to exploit a seized airhead.

Great job on this one, as usual, Stik.

What was your technique for the mud splatter on the front; an air brush on low pressure?

M1GarandFan

Great job on this one, as usual, Stik.

What was your technique for the mud splatter on the front; an air brush on low pressure?

 

Thank you M1. My technique for splatter is even more low tech. I mix up my pigment concoction, dip in a stiff bristled nylon paint brush, and use my thumb to work the bristles to cause the splatter. Reload and point into the next area. I’m an old ex grunt- Keep It Simple Stupid

Actually, that's really good news for me, since I don't use/own an air brush. I've been trying to create that look with varying success. I think I have something here that just might work similar to your method. Thanks for the info!! 

stikpusher

 

 

M1GarandFan

Great job on this one, as usual, Stik.

What was your technique for the mud splatter on the front; an air brush on low pressure?

 

 

 

 

Thank you M1. My technique for splatter is even more low tech. I mix up my pigment concoction, dip in a stiff bristled nylon paint brush, and use my thumb to work the bristles to cause the splatter. Reload and point into the next area. I’m an old ex grunt- Keep It Simple Stupid

 

Always good advice.

Really nice job on that Stik, weathering came out great, spot on.

The British have been useing wheeled armour for decades. Saracen, Pig, Saxon, Saladin etc. But certainly not to the level of the Soviets. We did find them useful for the various counter insurgancy operations post WW2 as well as for mech Inf battalions which would follow being the Armoured Inf.

M1GarandFan

Actually, that's really good news for me, since I don't use/own an air brush. I've been trying to create that look with varying success. I think I have something here that just might work similar to your method. Thanks for the info!! 

 

 

Even those old Testors white handle nylon brushes will work fine. The main thing having the springiness of the shorter bristles, not the longer bristles.

Besides, it’s kinda fun too!

Bish

 

 

stikpusher

 

 

M1GarandFan

Great job on this one, as usual, Stik.

What was your technique for the mud splatter on the front; an air brush on low pressure?

 

 

 

 

Thank you M1. My technique for splatter is even more low tech. I mix up my pigment concoction, dip in a stiff bristled nylon paint brush, and use my thumb to work the bristles to cause the splatter. Reload and point into the next area. I’m an old ex grunt- Keep It Simple Stupid

 

 

 

 

 

Always good advice.

Really nice job on that Stik, weathering came out great, spot on.

The British have been useing wheeled armour for decades. Saracen, Pig, Saxon, Saladin etc. But certainly not to the level of the Soviets. We did find them useful for the various counter insurgancy operations post WW2 as well as for mech Inf battalions which would follow being the Armoured Inf.

 

Thanks Bish. I think US experience with wheeled AFVs in WWII reinforced by that in Korea turned the Army off on them. The M3 & M8 scout cars, and the M20 utility vehicle were all found wanting. Especially in areas where there was not a good road network. 

The Soviets had an interesting mix of wheeled and tracked once they went down that route with the BMP/BTR mix. In the Tank divisions the Motor Rifle troops were BMP heavy, while in Motor Rifle Divisions, they were BTR heavy. At least in the majority of their first line units. 

I would imagine that it IS kinda fun. I just think I'll practice on some sort of test target before I go to a project vehicle. I would think ones aim is not too accurate with that method.

I actually have a couple of those old Testors white-handled brushes! I'll start with one of them.

stikpusher

Thank you M1. My technique for splatter is even more low tech. I mix up my pigment concoction, dip in a stiff bristled nylon paint brush, and use my thumb to work the bristles to cause the splatter. Reload and point into the next area.

Nifty trick, thank you for sharing it.

Before the Bradley, the Army was testing the XM800T (for tracked) and XM800W (for wheeled). They decided on the tracked, and if you watch the Pentagon Wars, you'll see a tongue in cheek reason the XM800T got so big.

    Apologies for getting this thread off topic, however thank you Rob, Stik, Bish for the info. M1 kudos for brush painting man I have a hard time with a rattle can lol. Anyway Armor out to lurk in the shadows.

Another winner there SP! Love the camo and the dirt/grime on the tires.

Shame about the tires splitting on you though, I don't get why Dragon had to do that sort of stuff...

Armor, I sure did not mind the meandering discussion. It can be quite interesting to see where things go on here. The XM800 vehicles were unknown to me. Interesting to learn of their existence and bridging the gap between the M114 and the M3 Bradley. The Army of the 70s that never was- MBT-70/XM801, AH-56 Cheyenne, and now the XM800, is stuff I find fascinating. 

Gamera, thank you. I agree about those cursed Dragon rubber tires. A terrible gimmick. I built one each of all their BTR & BRDM kits that came with those. Only my original BTR-70 kit did not have them split for some reason. Zvezda made a big improvement going with the hard vinyl tires. But at least I was able to use those to fix my BTR-80. Resin replacements are a PITA after the kit is built. 

I have to agree with Stik that I love the way some of these conversations twist and turn but they're almost always fascinating. As an old AF ground pounder in the UK in the 70's, the army seemed to have the most invested in Europe considering the Soviet threat. I would listen to Armed Forces Radio working mid-shifts after the BBC gave it up for the night, or Radio Luxumbourg. AFR always had something of interest to say.

stikpusher

Armor, I sure did not mind the meandering discussion. It can be quite interesting to see where things go on here. The XM800 vehicles were unknown to me. Interesting to learn of their existence and bridging the gap between the M114 and the M3 Bradley. The Army of the 70s that never was- MBT-70/XM801, AH-56 Cheyenne, and now the XM800, is stuff I find fascinating. 

Gamera, thank you. I agree about those cursed Dragon rubber tires. A terrible gimmick. I built one each of all their BTR & BRDM kits that came with those. Only my original BTR-70 kit did not have them split for some reason. Zvezda made a big improvement going with the hard vinyl tires. But at least I was able to use those to fix my BTR-80. Resin replacements are a PITA after the kit is built. 

Sorry to hijack your thread. The Dragon BTRs were some of my favorite kits from their early days. The splitting tires were the worst though.

As far as vehicles that could have been, one of my favorites was the T92 light tank that was supposed to replace the M41. But when the US saw the amphibous PT-76, it was scrapped for the M551 Sheridan.

One of my what if projects I've been tinkering with on the side is the MBT70 without the 152 mm gun/missile launcher. What if a regular rifled cannon was used I got an extra turret off of eBay and have tried adapting a regular 105 and the 120 from an M103 to it. I lean towards the 120 since the 105 doesn't really make it better than the M60 series.

Rob Gronovius

 

 

stikpusher

Armor, I sure did not mind the meandering discussion. It can be quite interesting to see where things go on here. The XM800 vehicles were unknown to me. Interesting to learn of their existence and bridging the gap between the M114 and the M3 Bradley. The Army of the 70s that never was- MBT-70/XM801, AH-56 Cheyenne, and now the XM800, is stuff I find fascinating. 

Gamera, thank you. I agree about those cursed Dragon rubber tires. A terrible gimmick. I built one each of all their BTR & BRDM kits that came with those. Only my original BTR-70 kit did not have them split for some reason. Zvezda made a big improvement going with the hard vinyl tires. But at least I was able to use those to fix my BTR-80. Resin replacements are a PITA after the kit is built. 

 

 

 

Sorry to hijack your thread. The Dragon BTRs were some of my favorite kits from their early days. The splitting tires were the worst though.

As far as vehicles that could have been, one of my favorites was the T92 light tank that was supposed to replace the M41. But when the US saw the amphibous PT-76, it was scrapped for the M551 Sheridan.

One of my what if projects I've been tinkering with on the side is the MBT70 without the 152 mm gun/missile launcher. What if a regular rifled cannon was used I got an extra turret off of eBay and have tried adapting a regular 105 and the 120 from an M103 to it. I lean towards the 120 since the 105 doesn't really make it better than the M60 series.

 

My apologies as well SP for the thread hi-jack. But I'd really like to see the modified MBT70 when you're done with it Rob. And I had to look up the T92, what a odd duck...  

Guys I don’t mind one bit about the thread redirect. This is a most interesting conversation. I wonder if the Army might have gone down the route of the German 120mm gun on the MBT-70/XM801. The Germans did first test it on Leopard 1 A3/A4 type, so I bet they might have offered it up. Or perhaps the British 120mm gun used on the Chieftain would have been a possibility. 

When Dragon releases their Kampfpanzer 70, I was hoping that they would follow with the US MBT-70 at some point. Perhaps someday they still might.

I like what you did, looks great.  Mixing your own pigments turned out very well.

Thank you Rhino. Mixing my own pigments was a fun experiment. This should be interesting to see what colors that I can come up with by that method. 

stikpusher

Guys I don’t mind one bit about the thread redirect. This is a most interesting conversation. I wonder if the Army might have gone down the route of the German 120mm gun on the MBT-70/XM801. The Germans did first test it on Leopard 1 A3/A4 type, so I bet they might have offered it up. Or perhaps the British 120mm gun used on the Chieftain would have been a possibility. 

When Dragon releases their Kampfpanzer 70, I was hoping that they would follow with the US MBT-70 at some point. Perhaps someday they still might.

 

I think the reason they went with the German variant is because they have two fairly similar prototypes whereas the US version are all different in multiple aspects. That's why I've been trying to tinker with a "what if" the tank was successful and placed into service. Much like a war used tanks only vaguely resembles the original prototype because of the modifications made during service.

Rob Gronovius

 

 

stikpusher

Guys I don’t mind one bit about the thread redirect. This is a most interesting conversation. I wonder if the Army might have gone down the route of the German 120mm gun on the MBT-70/XM801. The Germans did first test it on Leopard 1 A3/A4 type, so I bet they might have offered it up. Or perhaps the British 120mm gun used on the Chieftain would have been a possibility. 

When Dragon releases their Kampfpanzer 70, I was hoping that they would follow with the US MBT-70 at some point. Perhaps someday they still might.

 

 

 

 

I think the reason they went with the German variant is because they have two fairly similar prototypes whereas the US version are all different in multiple aspects. That's why I've been trying to tinker with a "what if" the tank was successful and placed into service. Much like a war used tanks only vaguely resembles the original prototype because of the modifications made during service.

 

I suppose so. It would be nice to have some US version. Or perhaps a conversion kit to make one US version. 

Well done BTR, Stik. I've been mixing pigments for a while, and using store-bought stuff, hard to beat the price of do it yourself though.