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Metal, individual link, rubber and link & length

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  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Friday, June 26, 2020 2:49 AM

BTW I made a mistake. The MK IV tadpole calls for 117 links per side and it IS 117. Not 127 like I said. I miscounted. I thought I had counted out 117 but I actually only counted out 107.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 1:21 PM

snapdragonxxx

I too mustly use Ebay for metal barrels and tracks but there is a firm that you might like to start using them. I do use them for certain tracks.

Here's a link to BNA modelworld and the track manufacturer

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/military-vehicles-tanks-parts-decals-for-1:35-scale-tracks-wheels?alpha_filter_id=0&extra_filter_id=0&filter_id=457&scales_filter_id=0

I have a set for the Ferdinand for when I start Amusing Hobby's kit and it comes with metal pins. the castings are nice and they go together well and look good!

BNA stock a huge amount of different AM tracks including Friul, Masterclub etc. They also do metal barrels too. The prices are fair and you just ad shipping on. I have had no issues with them sending from Australia to UK. You just have to wait.

Buy the kit cheap from Dawn Grocery Store on Ebay (China, sorry) and then get the tracks and metal barrel. Jobs a good one. Some kits actually have a metal barrel in them.

 

James

 

 

I love BNA modelworld James. I buy from thier website directly and also from thier ebay store. Thier ebay store is where I got my Takom MKIV Tadpole and some water transfer camo for a couple of my Eduard 109's. Funny thing tho, when I ordered from them off ebay, I literally got my package in about a week and a half. When I ordered a couple barrels for my Panther and Tiger II directly off thier website, it took almost a month and a half! Go figure. Anyway on ebay, they dont go by BNA. But it is them. Just type this in the search bar on ebay and it will pull them up.

seller:a-modeler

That's them. And they have a ton of stuff.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Friday, June 19, 2020 5:30 PM

I too mustly use Ebay for metal barrels and tracks but there is a firm that you might like to start using them. I do use them for certain tracks.

Here's a link to BNA modelworld and the track manufacturer

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/military-vehicles-tanks-parts-decals-for-1:35-scale-tracks-wheels?alpha_filter_id=0&extra_filter_id=0&filter_id=457&scales_filter_id=0

I have a set for the Ferdinand for when I start Amusing Hobby's kit and it comes with metal pins. the castings are nice and they go together well and look good!

BNA stock a huge amount of different AM tracks including Friul, Masterclub etc. They also do metal barrels too. The prices are fair and you just ad shipping on. I have had no issues with them sending from Australia to UK. You just have to wait.

Buy the kit cheap from Dawn Grocery Store on Ebay (China, sorry) and then get the tracks and metal barrel. Jobs a good one. Some kits actually have a metal barrel in them.

 

James

 

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Friday, June 19, 2020 4:33 PM

I recently started work on the Takom Mk.IV Tadpole. Really nice kit, kind of need to build it out of order to insure proper alignment of certain sections, but overall good. Point is, the kit has plastic individual links, separated in a plastic bag, no need to cut them off a sprue. Single piece too, no guide horn gluing or anything. Snap together nicely, tho I was worried that I might break some in the process. Didnt happen, didnt even warp any out of shape. And they hold together very well. The kit says to use 117 per side, though  you actually need 127 per side. 

 

I would order more spade ace or other metal track brands from China, but I've boycotted them. I pick up pretty much all of my merch off of ebay. No trouble ever in 11 years. Lately since I have had two packages shipped to me using speedpak, they both "magically" disappeared and the tracking said delivered which they never were. I think my mail man is stealing them because he knows that speedpak tracking numbers dont appear in the USPS system even though they deliver them. All he has to do is mark it delivered and keep the package. Pretty much impossible to prove that he didnt deliver it. So until ebay fixes the tracking issue or figures out how to incorporate it into the USPS system (which they wont I'm sure) I have restricted all purchases to pretty much anywhere that isn't China because they are the only ones who use speedpak.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Wednesday, June 17, 2020 9:54 AM

All good points from both camps. Me, I'll use Friuls or SpadeAce when I'm doing something with "dead" links, and enjoy it immensely. There's just no way to beat the hang of naturally weighted tracks, when appropriate. For "live" tracks, I'm totally good with quality one-piece glueable tracks like new Tamiya, AFV Club, Takom or even Dragon DS. I've had a problem with both Tamiya and Dragon becoming brittle and breaking, most likely due to interaction between the plastic and enamel paint, so I only use water-based acrylic paint on them now. So far, so good. I detest link and length, but that's just me: I've always run into difficulty with making them match up properly, plus I'm not good at painting tracks and road wheel tires as a unit. It always looks messy, so my plan is to stick with tracks I can paint off the model. That being said, I just picked up Tamiya's new R35 Renault with link and length tracks, so I'm about to try L&L again.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:47 PM

Real G

Interesting.  The only Masterclub set of tracks I own are for Objeckt 279, aka the UFO Tank.  It has FOUR tracks, and looking at the resin pins give me the jitters.  The tracks seem to be cast more cleanly than the Friuls though. 

 

I only used them once on my 432. The pics were fiddly and tight fitting, quite a few snapped. But the casting were very nice and i did like the seperate rubber pads. I have bought several more sets since.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 11:37 AM

Interesting.  The only Masterclub set of tracks I own are for Objeckt 279, aka the UFO Tank.  It has FOUR tracks, and looking at the resin pins give me the jitters.  The tracks seem to be cast more cleanly than the Friuls though. 

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:43 AM

You guys bring up good points. I have tended to go away from Friul just because they are getting expensive! $60 for the tracks and the kit cost me $45! But I also like to put metal barrels whenever I can as well. While Friul does seem to have whatever track you need for whatever tank you have, and granted that is nice to know you can always get what you need, I have started to lean more towards masterclub. They run about 15 to 20 bucks cheaper, are just as nice, and for me anyways, are way easier and faster to assemble using the resin pins they all come with. Granted you will snap some of the pins during assembly and will definitely have a few shoot off into the void, but I never ran into an issue of not having enough of them left to finish the runs.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:19 AM

Hey Bill!

      Yer right agin!-Me Too.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 6:39 AM

Metal tracks are always my go to. Whether that be Fruils, Sword or masterclub. The latter are nice but the resin pins are really time consuming, and the wire that comes with Fruils does the job.

The onl;y time i don't replace kit tracks is if its undy link track like Dragon's magic Tracks, but thats mainly do to cost. I alreay have 30 sets of Fruils in the stash, i would have to think what it would cost to replace all the magic tracks. Only issue i ahve with plastic indy link tracks is that they tend to fall apart when i put and oil wash on them.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, June 16, 2020 5:52 AM

Rubber band tracks are a price point thing or a way to reduce costs in design and production and IMHO never look right as they have neither the bulk thickness nor the look of the real thing.

When I purchase an armour kit I always factor in two things and that is Friul metal tracks and a metal barrel. I very rarely go with any AM etched sets unless there is a specific thing or look and the parts are not in the kit.

Friuls, while quite expensive for an add on to whatever is in the kit are very easy to put together and paint and because of their correct scale look, design, detail give tracks the very beefy look that they should have which is something that most model kit makers somehow seem to miss. They also give realistic sag and slack which is present even in "live" track runs to some degree without any messing because of their natural weight.

It really all comes down to preferences and budget. RFM's new Panzer IV tracks that are in their new releases look nice on the CAD pictures, but how will they look in plastic and how will the plastic pins that hold them together stand up to any form of manipulation without breaking? Only time will tell.

I prefer my Friuls. I just wish they would go with proper pins instead of the coiled wire!!

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, June 15, 2020 10:04 PM

Hi,

Not long ago I bought a couple EMHAR WWI kits that have some sort of single piece gluable tracks and they worked out great.  Later I built a Hobby Boss 1/35 Hotchkiss H39 that I intended to use individual plastic track links on, but I had troubles getting the tracks together (even using a track guide) so I ended up using sone single piece Heller tracks on the kit that worked out good enough for me at the time.  In general, with the issues that I've had trying to glue together single link plastic tracks I don't feel up to trying the seemingly more complex metal link tracks, or multipiece plastic links yet, but maybe once I get more experience I may give them a try.

I also have a couple models with link and length tracks that I am interested in trying.

Pat

1st Group BuildSP

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • From: North East of England
Posted by Hutch6390 on Monday, June 15, 2020 6:35 PM

As a young modeller I only ever saw tank kits with vinyl tracks (1/35) or real rubber bands (1/76 & 1/72).  The real rubber ones were the invention of the Devil & would melt into a sticky black mess on contact with glue, just out of spite.  However, I never had a problem with the vinyl ones - carefully heat-sealed & reinforced with poly cement from a tube. 

Now there are these other options, I have to say I still prefer vinyl - if that's unfashionable, so be it.  I find  - in my admittedly very limited experience - link & length to be a fiddly nuisance, especially in smaller scales & especially when the top run is going to be hidden anyway.  As for individual links - I want to build a model tank, not spend three weekends track-bashing.  However, if I want to model a particular subject I might just have to put up with it - I want a 1/35 A34 Comet but the only kit I can find is Bronco's, and it has individual link tracks.  So, where's my 1/35 scale sledgehammer?

           Stay safe, everyone.

                          Hutch.

Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?

   

TakkaTakkaTakkaTakkaTakkaTakka

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, June 15, 2020 5:44 PM

GMorrison

Switched to Friuls and never looked back.

 

I'm with Bill, Friulmodel metal tracks will be my first choice on any track vehicle model. As for assembly I have a simple way to solve that problem. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49916591627_e8b593270c_b.jpg

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, June 15, 2020 4:19 PM

Switched to Friuls and never looked back.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Monday, June 15, 2020 4:09 PM

Real G

I am not a fan of the so-called "glueable" belt type tracks.  I have yet to find a glue that will actually glue them together; CA just peels off and solvent glue only weakens them without giving a hint of bonding.  A model buddy recently told me his new Tamiya M10's tracks distintegrated.  Another had his JGSDF LAV's tires do the same thing.  Both used acrylics to weather.

 

 

Tell me about it! No glue works on the darn things, at least I haven't found one yet. I ended up having to use a staple with glue to hold one run together on a build. Lucky the tank had fenders  I could hide that mess up top. I will say on the older tamiya abrams Tusk, that was the one and only kit I have come across with 1 piece rubber tracks that tamiya cement actually worked and melded the two ends together with a super strong bond. I could actually stretch them without them busting apart.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, June 15, 2020 1:02 PM

I am not a fan of the so-called "glueable" belt type tracks.  I have yet to find a glue that will actually glue them together; CA just peels off and solvent glue only weakens them without giving a hint of bonding.  A model buddy recently told me his new Tamiya M10's tracks distintegrated.  Another had his JGSDF LAV's tires do the same thing.  Both used acrylics to weather.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, June 15, 2020 12:35 PM

Well, they seem a miracle to me, as only the HO & 1/72 kits much had anything but rubber/vinyl tracks in them (and the rubber ones, like Pyro and LifeLike and some Nitto, were horrible things, vague detail, would dry out and snap, just not good).

So, when L & L started entering the modeling continum it was pretty cool, if a learning curve.  No more sticking wires through hulls, or using motor-winding wire around roadwheels, and the like to get sag (and have the track joint fail a couple weeks later Sad).

So, the individual links were even better for many applications. Other than the cost of metal ones, that is.

But, I'm ancient, too.  I remember when "accessory kit" meant the teeny (like 50x100mm) Heller packet of a tow rope, or 4-6 jerry cans, and that was it.  Resin?  Photoetch?  Nope and Nope, never heard of them.

I'm old enough to remember when Tamiya switched from the "MT" (motorized tank) line to the "MM" (military miniatures) catalog lines.  Which meant you had to be sharp, as the M-41 came as both MT-307 and as MM-155 (the later without the four infantry figures, as well as the motor and the like).  The MT kits were sized to hold batteries and the like, and were not always to scale height at the engine decks, so the MM series was a major change.  And made MRC/Tamiya a bundle in the late 70s, too.

Now, al lthe serious kit makers (seem to at least) offer flexible track in "uses regular glue" format if a person were not keen to build individual links.

I'm also probably the wrong person to ask, since I find setting up deadeyes and ratlines on sailing ships just par for the course.  A jig to juggle 7 link parts for M-60 tracks--just part of the process.  Getting the "right" tracks for what I'm modeling does appeal to the rivet-counting monster in me, when he gets out of the straight jacket in the closet in the basement where he was locked up.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, June 15, 2020 12:24 PM

I am with you,I do not like Link and Length Tracks.I enjoy Metal Tracks but as you say they are expensive,I tried some other companies a little cheaper then Fruils,but because of cost,I pretty much use them for special builds.I gotten used to Dragon Magic Tracks,once you get a system they go together pretty easy and look good.i also like Workable Tracks Like the ones in the  Meng T-90 and Abrams.My least favorite are the one piece,although they do have their place on some of the live track tanks especially if the upper run is covered by the fenders.The newer Tamiya ones are okay,and only one of my DS tracks have disintegrated,I won't chance them again.Not crazy about the click able plastic or resin type,sounds good,but they don't stay together.

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, June 15, 2020 12:12 PM

I agree on all points.

For dry pin tracks, I prefer metal.  For “live” tracks I prefer plastic indy link - prefer, not like or enjoy.  Live tracks are also usually the ones with track pads, so it makes painting easier when they are separate.  Metal one piece tracks can scuff, revealing metal from under the paint.

I don’t mind using link and length so long as the end connectors don’t have a huge mold parting line through them.

Your point about requiring exact positioning is true, so I leave the sprocket loose to allow adjustment.  I have seen people in model mags build the full track run, then slide them off along with the wheels to allow finishing.  This could work, provided everything is prepainted and the intent is to touch up the paint and then perform weathering. I have found the thickness in paint makes a difference in fit.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Metal, individual link, rubber and link & length
Posted by Reaper420 on Monday, June 15, 2020 11:18 AM

Hey all, I'm sure that this has been gone over more times than a random security check persons bag at the airport, but I just wanted to hear everyone's input and thoughts. So we have so many tank kits at our fingertips today, and one of the main things that seem to make or break the kit, is the tracks. To me it seems more kits are using those awful rubbishband (yes I meant to type it that way) tracks, but you get a few that still do individual plastic links and some that use link and length. 

Now I hate rubberband tracks, but only on certain kits. If I'm doing WWII armor, I cant stand them, especially on russian and german kits. It's just too much of a hassle to get them to portray the correct amount of sag. Modern armor however like and Abrams or T90, it's ok because they dont have track sag and plus the skirts cover the top half of the track anyway. So there is that convenience there. However rubber tracks just dont seem to hold paint, or hold up for that matter, too well over time.

I love metal tracks, nothing portrays track sag like actual metal tracks. You can get the depiction perfect. However, considering how most sets of metal tracks cost as much as the model, or more, and the assembly can be super time consuming on some (think Friule Tiger II. The ones that consist of about 4 parts per link and need a jig), it's not always the most enticing option.

Individual plastic links in my opinion and the perfect middle ground, especially the ones that dont need any glue. You get good detail, durability and paint retention, and you can realistically portray sag on those kits that require it. Unfortunately, there are not too many kits that have them these days.

Link and length, I'm not too big a fan of. Kits like the Takom Panther with AA armor use them. It can be a hassle to get the length sections set up to correctly convey sag, and with link and length, if you dont pay precise attention, you'll end up with sections that dont match up or end up too long or short.

So what are you folks thoughts, and what do you prefer to work with? What do you find works the best for you on your builds?

Kick the tires and light the fires!

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