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AFV Club 1/35 AEC Matador British Army Artillery Tractor

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  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
AFV Club 1/35 AEC Matador British Army Artillery Tractor
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, September 14, 2020 12:14 PM

Started AFV Club 1/35 scale AEC (Associated Equipment Company) British Army Artillery Tractor. This project is part of the British Army Group Build 2020 under Martin Bishop (Bish) who is a retired British Army Artillery combat Veteran.

During the 1930's before the outbreak of World War Two, all the major European powers were developing motorized transportation for artillery units. Associated Equipment Company who was designing double-deck buses for Great Britain was asked by the Ministry of War to develop a four-wheel drive artillery tractor to pull 5.5-inch howitzers and 3.7-inch anti-aircraft guns. There were a total of 8,612 of these vehicles produced until 1945.

I completed assembly step 1 and 2 which include the lower engine half and tow cable winch. Steps 3 through 9 will involve the frame, undercarriage, suspension, axels, and wheels.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: AZ,USA
Posted by GreySnake on Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:25 PM
Looking forward to seeing how this one comes out.

 
  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 6:08 AM

I will watch this with interest. Have started to super detail the old Airfix kit in HO/OO but may have bitten of more than i can chew.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 2:48 PM

Welcome GS from Arizona and Rob from Victoria, Australia. I completed step 3 this morning which surprised me with how much time I spent. I usually have a three-hour period each morning to work on models and thought I could finish two, or three steps today. However, this morning I started a little late and even though I underestimated how much time it would take I did not break anything, so it was a good session. Step 3 includes the frame, cross-members, lower engine half and winch assembly. Keeping it level and square was my main objective, so I do not have trouble later with the suspension and body assembly.

I find the AEC Matador one of the most interesting and iconic British military vehicle of World War II. With a low geared 7580 cc diesel engine it could pull the heaviest load through the muddiest field. It was designed for towing artillery pieces, but also served in different versions as an aircraft fuel truck, flatbed cargo truck, personnel carrier, tow truck and even a dump truck. The British really put this vehicle to good use during the war.

Rob Ferguson, I do not know much about the Australian Navy even though I served on destroyers during the Vietnam War and met a few Australian Navy seamen. Glad to have you in our Forum Mate.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Wednesday, September 16, 2020 9:12 PM

Thanks Harold. Its good to be part of the forums I am enjoying the contact with other modelers and have received some great advice. I am not in a club over here as I live too far away from any large population areas. I served on destroyers, (DDG's), as well just after the Vietnam war. Ended up with a medical discharge as a result of an accident.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, September 17, 2020 4:37 AM

Dodgy

Thanks Harold. Its good to be part of the forums I am enjoying the contact with other modelers and have received some great advice. I am not in a club over here as I live too far away from any large population areas. I served on destroyers, (DDG's), as well just after the Vietnam war. Ended up with a medical discharge as a result of an accident.

 

Your welcome Rob.

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, September 18, 2020 10:59 PM

I completed steps 4 through 6 and started step 7. The undercarriage of this model is much more detailed than I realized. Steps 1 through 9 is a full running gear with drive lines and transmission. If AFV Club had included the upper half of the engine it would be a complete model inside and out. There is a full interior in the cab and the bed has all the detail you would expect in a truck model. I am very pleased with the way this model was engineered. 

If you are interested in classic military vehicles like the AEC Matador here is a good resource http://www.classicmilitary.co.uk/aec-matador-gun-tractor-classic-military-vehicle/

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, September 19, 2020 3:42 AM

looking good Harold. Do the parts require much clean up? It looks very clean and tidy. Thanks for the info on the Matador website, that will come in very handy when I get back to working on my ho/oo beastie.

Incidentally, I actually have an AEC nameplate that a mate of mine in 3/4 Cav. brought back from Somalia. Also the photo you posted of the Matador tanker fuelling a Lancaster intrigued me. When I had a closer look the Lancaster was S-Sugar of 467 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force. S-Sugar was a famous aircraft with a record number of missions with both RAF and RAAF squadrons. It carried a tally of its missions on the port side of its nose and a quote from Herman Goering - "No enemy plane will fly over Reich territory", or words to that effect.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, September 19, 2020 5:42 AM

Dodgy

looking good Harold. Do the parts require much clean up? It looks very clean and tidy. Thanks for the info on the Matador website, that will come in very handy when I get back to working on my ho/oo beastie.

Incidentally, I actually have an AEC nameplate that a mate of mine in 3/4 Cav. brought back from Somalia. Also the photo you posted of the Matador tanker fuelling a Lancaster intrigued me. When I had a closer look the Lancaster was S-Sugar of 467 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force. S-Sugar was a famous aircraft with a record number of missions with both RAF and RAAF squadrons. It carried a tally of its missions on the port side of its nose and a quote from Herman Goering - "No enemy plane will fly over Reich territory", or words to that effect.

 

Thank you Rob, we have much more in common than our Navy service on a DDG. Please take a look at the two links below. The man was my Uncle.

https://www.backtonormandy.org/the-history/air-force-operations/airplanes-allies-and-axis-lost/lancaster/21346-PB6331944-12-18.html

https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/120773

 

The AFV Club kits are as clean and well engineered a model as you will fine in 1/35 scale. I have six AFV Club models now and they are all the same quality, so I can recommend them with confidence. One caution is they are intended for experienced modelers which mean there is a lot of detail and some very small parts. If you use Tamiya extra thin cement and some form of magnifying glasses you should be able to build anything in AFV Club's catalogue.

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, September 19, 2020 7:08 PM

May he rest in peace. "At the going down of the sun and in the morning,we will remember them".

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:36 PM

Dodgy

May he rest in peace. "At the going down of the sun and in the morning,we will remember them".

 

Thank you, Rob. I completed steps 1 through 9 which includes the frame, lower half of the engine, transmission, drive lines, suspension, axels, and wheels. The next phase is the truck bed, steps 10 through 19 then the cab interior steps 20 through 27. The last step is 28 which joins the bed and cab with the chassis. Like other models with an interior the exterior assembly work will be interrupted to paint the interior.

I had one minor problem with assembly today. In photograph #1 and #3 you can see a white part next to the frame. It is a transmission mount that I had to build from styrene. The instructions show installation of a transmission mount before the transmission is installed, but you cannot get the transmission in place with that mount installed. I try to plan ahead at least two steps during assembly, but sometimes I overlook this kind of problem until it is too late.

Harold

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

  

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Sunday, September 20, 2020 1:50 AM

Good work so far!

A few recent threads bring up the old problem of 'rubber'/vynyl tyres reacting with the plastic rims.

I've never heard of this happening with AFV club, but a popular solution is to skin the wheel rim, where the rubber contacts the plastic, with Bare Metal Foil/thin Aluminium tape of your choice, & dip the tyres in Future/Pledge, then avoid enamels & paint/weather with Acrylics.

 

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Sunday, September 20, 2020 4:45 AM

Well mate it happens to us all. I will not tell you about my stuff up with the StugIIIA until it's finished. Anyway it looks like you have got it sorted nicely. Looking great.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Sunday, September 20, 2020 4:55 AM

I find that interesting. Years ago I built the Tamiya LRDG kit and won a national comp with it, so naturally I was very proud. Imagine my horror when a few years later I realised that all the tyres had developed major cracks. I've since purchased resin replacements, but I also dropped the bugger when moving house. So the replacement tyres and the hulk is now sitting on the shelf of shame.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, September 20, 2020 8:35 AM

Jon_a_its

Good work so far!

A few recent threads bring up the old problem of 'rubber'/vynyl tyres reacting with the plastic rims.

I've never heard of this happening with AFV club, but a popular solution is to skin the wheel rim, where the rubber contacts the plastic, with Bare Metal Foil/thin Aluminium tape of your choice, & dip the tyres in Future/Pledge, then avoid enamels & paint/weather with Acrylics.

 

 

Thank you, Jon, and Rob. Well you certainly got my attention. I had never heard of this issue with vinyl rubber and plastic. Probably because most of my models are track vehicles and I like to use metal tracks. However, I did have one with vinyl tires that I finished last December, please see photographs #1, #2 and #3 below. So this morning I took it off the shelf and inspected the tires and as you can see in #2 the material looks normal.

One thing I did with this model is paint the tires with Vallejo Tire Black #71.315. I do not like shinny vinyl rubber tires because they are not natural looking. This morning; however, I noticed the material was hard like plastic instead of pliable and soft when I worked on this model nine months ago. So maybe there will be a problem down the road, I will check it again in six months.

As you said Jon AFV Club does not have a history of the problem and maybe they have found the right material to represent rubber tires? I do have a concern about another model I did for a friend in March. It had vinyl rubber tracks and I recall using CA glue to connect the tracks which caused some melting of material at the connection point. This was an Academy model release about ten-years ago with the original vinyl tracks. If it fails that could be a problem because the model is in the National Marine Corps Museum in Quantico, Virginia. Please see photograph #4 and #5 below.

Rob I stuff-up every model I build in one way or another. I have become a repair aficionado out of necessity. I have a stockpile of styrene, copper wire and unused parts that I go to all to often. I try not to get upset when I make mistakes, I tell myself every mistake is an opportunity to learn something. But if I have learned anything it is not to assume the instructions are wrong. Sometimes they are, but most of the time it is me.

Harold

#1

#2

#3 Photograph below taken in December 2019

#4 The model below is on display in the National Marine Corps Museum

#5

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Sunday, September 20, 2020 4:25 PM

I hear what you're saying about the instructions mate. As a friend once said to me - "We seek lifes problems because of the gifts they bring" If you can be practical about these things I think this is very true.

PS I dont think you should have any worries about the Ontos.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:34 PM

I completed steps 10 through 18 out of 28 which is the truck bed, seating, and accessories. There were a few problems in these steps starting with resin gas cans that came with the kit. Why AFV Club chose to have resin gas cans when their styrene cans are perfect, I have no idea. However, the main problem was the styrene storage rack for gas cans located under the truck bed. The storage rack was incomplete according to the number of parts in the instructions. Anyway I ended up making a storage rack out of styrene strips which is a little different than the original, but it looks similar to an actual rack I had fabricated out of angle iron, so I know it will work.

There were also a few other problems with the instructions, but I was able to work around those without too much difficulty. Step 19 is assembly of the canopy and then steps 20 through 27 is the cab interior. The cab interior will need to be hand-painted before final assembly and painting.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, September 27, 2020 5:02 PM

Thank you Bish. I completed assembly of the canopy this morning and I am ready to start assembly of the truck cab interior. The canopy will not be glued to the truck bed until the interior is painted.

I ordered Eureka XXL braider metal wire rope in .40mm diameter to replace the copper wire cables stowed on the tail gate. I have used the Eureka wire rope before and it is easy to use, realistic looking material. I also ordered AFV Club styrene British fuel cans to replace the resin ones that came in the kit.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Monday, September 28, 2020 12:02 AM

Lots of progress Harold, looking great. I really like the look of this kit.

 

Rob F

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, September 28, 2020 11:36 PM

Dodgy

Lots of progress Harold, looking great. I really like the look of this kit.

 

Rob F

 

Thank you, Rob. I completed the interior cab assembly today and tomorrow I hope to finish the exterior cab assembly. I need to paint the interior before I can put the cab, bed, canopy, and chassis together.

I made a few mistakes today, because I was rushing to finish as much as possible. I lost one of the pedals, a clutch pedal, I think but I made a new one out styrene, so it was not a major issue.

The control levelers on the floor seem to be in the way of the gas pedal, so I did a little research and found out the levelers lay over the wheel wells allowing access to the gas pedal. I am not sure what the levers do, but they are in the right place. Please see photographs #3 and #4 below. I also found pictures of a finished AFV Club Matador, #5 and #6 that confirm how the manufacture intended the levers to look.

Harold

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 3:13 PM

Ready to start interior painting.

 

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:13 PM

This is going to be a fantastic model. How are you going to display it? Incidentlly, those were some great interior shots of the real thing. They will come in handy for my 1/76th build.

Rob F

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:41 AM

Dodgy

This is going to be a fantastic model. How are you going to display it? Incidentlly, those were some great interior shots of the real thing. They will come in handy for my 1/76th build.

Rob F

 

Thank you, Rob, it is good to have a Mate who also likes classic military vehicles. Regarding a display, I really have not thought that through completely. I started this model as part of the British Army Group Build 2020 under my friend Martin Bishop in Suffolk, England. Then I added an AFV Club Bofors British 40mm Anti-Aircraft gun to go with the Matador.

Since then I purchased extra British fuel cans and have been looking at extra 40mm ammunition and a gun crew to go with the Matador and Bofors gun. Beyond that I have not made any decisions about a display. If I did a diorama it would be either with the Matador hauling the anti-aircraft gun crew and towing the Bofors gun or have the Matador next to the anti-aircraft gun for ammunition loading.

This morning I added a few more things to the truck cab but left it so I can take the cab apart to paint the interior. I am ready to start painting, but I may put this project on the shelf for a couple of weeks to decide on a new air compressor.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, October 2, 2020 8:50 PM

I added the last little details to the cab this morning in preparation for painting. The assembly of this model went pretty much according to the instructions, but I had a problem with the fuel can stowage rack under the truck bed and I also lost the clutch pedal, one minute it was in my tweezers and the next it was flying accross the room.

I also had another problem I would like to explain in more detail, so if anyone else decides to build this model they can be forewarned. There was an early production version of the Matador that AFV Club came out with in 2014, #AF35236. According to Scalemates' database the later production version I built, #AF35239 was released in 2015 with new parts. However, part #I-49 and I-50 which is used to anchor the back of the cab to the frame and control the height of the cab was not correct in my opinion for the new version. 

I do not know why because I have never built the earlier version, but I can tell you that I had to remove 5/64" (approx. 2mm) of the part to get the cab to sit down properly. If you look at the front of the cab in my previous posting of the Matador without the canopy you will see a white styrene spacer at the front bumper. That represents how much modification I had to make to part #I-49 and I-50. The photographs below show the cab now sitting on the frame the way it should be according to all the pictures I have seen of the Matador.

A Mate asked me why I like the AEC Matador? I like old lorries in general because they have a special look and sound that is uniquely British, kind of like canal boats. I have never driven a Matador, but in videos I have watched people say they are beautiful to drive. I think it is because the driver is sitting right over the front axle and the steering is like a modern transit bus. I worked in the mass transit industry for six years as an electromachanical contractor and had an opportunity to test drive city buses and over-the-road coaches. What can say, I like big wheels.

Harold

 

  

  • Member since
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  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Monday, October 5, 2020 4:51 PM

Very nice job mate. I look forward to seeing it with some colour. You are right about British lorries, there's just something about them. My favourites are the Morris and Scammel families, they just have this look.......

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, October 6, 2020 1:40 PM

Dodgy

Very nice job mate. I look forward to seeing it with some colour. You are right about British lorries, there's just something about them. My favourites are the Morris and Scammel families, they just have this look.......

 

Thank you, Rob. The color you mentioned will be a camouflage of medium brown and grey blue like picture #1 below. These are British World War II colors that Vallejo has researched for accuracy. The medium brown is like the Matador in picture #2 with the red arrow. This is the correct color for the British Army Artillery units of WWII. The camouflage pattern will be like picture #3 below. This will also be my first adventure in camouflage painting.

I received the AFV Club fuel can kit like picture #5 and rebuilt the stowage rack under the truck bed, please see photograph #4 below. I also received the Eureka LH-00 40mm braided metal wire rope like picture #7 and rebuilt the set of tow cables on the tailgate of the Matador, see photograph #6. These were two little details I wanted to upgrade before painting.

So, I am ready to start primer as soon as I have a new air compressor.

Harold

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

 

#7

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, October 7, 2020 1:01 PM

I have found some conflicting information regarding World War 2 British Army Artillery color for tactical and support vehicles. My original source was Vallejo paint set 71.614 British Colors UK/BEF/Europe 1939 - 1945. Colors researcher assisted by expert Mike Starmer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/sets/afv-color-series/wwii-british-colors-uk-bef-europe-1939-1945-71614/

However, in the Royal British National Army Museum I find a different set of colors for Army vehicles.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?q=searchType%3Dsimple%26resultsDisplay%3Dlist%26simpleText%3DTruck&pos=14&total=314&page=1&acc=1989-07-69-1

Can anyone shed light on this issue? Was the color of World War 2 Royal Army Artillery vehicles brown or green? Vallejo's expert thinks they were medium brown with grey blue camouflage. The British Museum thinks they were green with brown camouflage.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, October 7, 2020 3:41 PM

If it's the truck photo you mean, I'd always go with Mike Starmer's research before trusting the paints used by museum staff.

Also refer to Mike's research concerning the timeline of what paints and schemes were used for the European Theater:

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463

 

regards,

Jack

 

The above post was provided by jgeratic (Jack) from Ontario, Canada on the British Army Group Build 2020 Forum.

My reply to Jack: Your referral to Mike Starmer's research is compelling to say the least. The information provided by Vallejo and guided by Mike Starmer make it so much easier to understand than trying to interpret the plethora of standards, instructions and changes in paint colors and camouflage schemes that took place during the Second World War.

I tend to be obsessed with details especially regarding military history. I want things like paint and decals to be accurately represented in my modeling work. Thank you for taking time to provide Mike's research, it's is extremely helpful.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Thursday, October 8, 2020 6:21 AM

THe short answer is yes!

The longer answer is it depends on build year and theatre of operations.

Mike Starmers' info is regarded as authoritave & I'd go with him. I've met Mike at a show & he is more than willing to share info.

SCC2 Khaki Brown & SCC14 Night Black or Tarmac Black (not black) is typical of this type of camo.
VJ call it Grey Blue, but I've never heard it called it that, & VJ are 'optimistic' in what they call their colours.
MIG acrylics, my current favourite, do a whole range of SCC colours not just this starter set.

The National Army Museum's pic example is wrong to my eyes, the number plate is post-war, so may have suffered a respray.

1942-44 – M.T.P.46 diagrams of November 1941 introduced a new two tone patterned scheme aimed primarily against aerial observation, usually using the BS.987C browns as laid down in A.C.I.1160 of May 1942.  Stocks of the older colours were to be exhausted but in the new scheme. The most common versions of M.T.P.46 were variants of the “Foliage” pattern and the unofficial “Mickey Mouse” variant of the Dapple pattern.  Vehicles continued to be delivered and used in plain S.C.C.2 following ACI 1160 which gave S.C.C.2 as “Basic Paint”.  In October 1943 A.C.I.1496 authorised S.C.C.14, black, as the main tone over S.C.C.2. 

From MAFVA website

In terms of towing vehicles Bedford QLB's & Morris's were more usually associated with the 40mm Bofors, with the Matadors reserved for the Heavies 4.5", 5.5" etc, as per your pic, but never say never.

 

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Monday, October 12, 2020 6:58 AM

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

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