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AFV Club 1/35 AEC Matador British Army Artillery Tractor

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  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, October 12, 2020 10:15 AM

Dodgy

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

 

That is very good advice Mate.

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, October 24, 2020 4:35 PM

G'day Harold. I've been away from the computer for a few days so I'm just touching base. You haven't posted anything on the Matador for a while, is everything ok?

Ferg

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, October 26, 2020 11:59 PM

Dodgy

G'day Harold. I've been away from the computer for a few days so I'm just touching base. You haven't posted anything on the Matador for a while, is everything ok?

Ferg

 

G'day Mate, thank you for checking on me. The wife and I have been down on the Pacific coast for two weeks, we just got home Saturday. While I was gone I worked online with the help of Jack Geratic (jgeratic) in Ontario, Canada and Mike Starmer in the UK. Jack has helped me sort out the decals I need for the British 2nd Army, 4th AGRA, 186 AoS that was in N.W. Europe 1939 to 1945. I also had several online conversations with Jack and Mike about British colors and camouflage patterns. I will send you a private message with information Mike gave me that you may find useful on your future project.

While I was gone, I received the new air compressor I ordered. At first, I was disappointed because the Iwata miniature spray gun I have is too big for the air compressor. The spray gun has a 1.0mm needle and nozzle set. Then I tried the new air compressor with my Iwata airbrush that has a 0.35mm needle and nozzle, it works perfectly. In fact, it works so good at 17 PSI I was able to paint the Matador truck bed, cab interior and undercarriage with no runs and no over-spray using Vallejo surface primer. The finish is smooth, and I did not use any thinner or flow improver.

In the past my big industrial air compressor made it hard to regulate the air pressure in the 15 to 20 PSI range because it was designed to operate at 100 to 125 PSI. Even after I added a second regulator and moisture filter it would deliver to much air or not enough and the compressor was very laud. The result was either occasional runs in the paint, excessive paint buildup around tight places, or rough finish from dry paint (over-spray) when I use my airbrush. The miniature spray gun has its place with large aircraft wings and ship hulls, but I seem to do fine on 1/35 scale AFV bodies with a 0.35mm airbrush at 17 PSI.

Below is the work I did today with the first coat of USA Olive Drab Vallejo Surface Primer #74.608. The finish coat will be British S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab (which is not US Olive Drab). It will be a Tamiya mix of XF-81, XF-58, and XF-71 that Mike Starmer researched. The camouflage paint will be S.C.C. 14 Blue Black, Tamiya XF-69. Originally, I had planned to use Vallejo paint, but after other considerations have decided to go with a proven Tamiya mixture. The camouflage pattern will be like figure 7 from the British Military Training Pamphlet #46, shown below.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 1:44 AM

I feel the need to explain that Colours mentioned in M.T.P. #46 shown in my previous post were superseded by S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab and S.C.C. 14 Blue Black in 1943, but the camouflage pattern illustrated in M.T.P. #46 remained the same.

These were Colours used in N.W. Europe during the Second Wold War. Originally I had planned to model the Matador after British Army units located in the Orkney Islands, but identifying specific units became very difficult and as it turned out I already had decals for the British 2nd Army.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 5:27 AM

Hi Harold. I hope you both had a good time whilst you were away. The Matador is looking great and the paint job looks excellent. I too have been playing with the airbrush and compressor. Haven't touched either for many years and having to re-learn all over again, but it sounds like you have your issues worked out.

I truly salute your dedication to accuracy regarding the paint job!

Ferg

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:38 PM

Sergeant

 

 
Dodgy

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

 

 

 

That is very good advice Mate.

 

 

Yes

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:41 PM

Description

Thank you, Rob and TigerII. Today my progress was limited by other activities, but I did manage to get the windows and mirrors on the cab. The next step is to mask the windows and give the cab a couple of coats of primer. I will use a new liquid mask made by Hobby Pro manufacture of VMS products in Poland. https://www.vms-supplies.com/ 

The split windows on this Matador remind me of a 1932 Model A Ford my neighbor had when we were kids growing up in the country on a farm. That split window ventilation worked rather good on a nice day when it was not raining.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, October 31, 2020 6:44 AM

I have the primer on and need to give it 24 hours to dry thoroughly before I do any touch up around the windows.

 

  

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 4:27 AM

Looking great Harold. I've been otherwise occupied myself for a few days, so not on the computer, or the work bench much.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:02 PM

Dodgy

Looking great Harold. I've been otherwise occupied myself for a few days, so not on the computer, or the work bench much.

 

I was wondering how you were doing Mate. I have been productive the past week, but I had a few setbacks. I tried liquid masking on the windows and did not put it on thick enough. It was not easy to clean up my mess, but eventually I got the windows clean without damaging the clear plastic. Gino suggested that I use masking tape to cover the windows and I got it on both sides of all the windows without breaking anything.

Then with Mike Starmer's help I selected a reasonable representative mixture of British olive drab paint (Sample #2) and got the first coat on tonight. The plan is to get two finish coats on then paint the cab interior before final assembly. While the base coat of olive drab is drying, I am practicing the camouflage pattern of Tamiya Nato Black with my airbrush on art paper. This will be my first ever camouflage paint job and I am a little nervous about doing it free hand.

Harold

 

  

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:19 AM

Hey Harold, this project is coming along very, very nicely.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2020
Posted by robw_uk on Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:29 AM
just found this build, that does look rather nice. Looking forward to more of your work
  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:30 AM

Excelent work so far, especially your reasearch elsewhere on colours.

I look forward to seeing more.

Never say never, but the Matador was associated with the 'Mediums & Heavies'
QF 3.7" AA
BL 4.5" & BL 5.5"  Medium Gun
BL 6-inch 26 cwt Heavy Howitzer
BL 7.2-inch Heavy Howitzer
Accurate Armour or Thunder Models though.

 

 

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, November 7, 2020 4:44 AM

I'm loving it Harold. As for the freehand camo, practice, practice, practice until you're comfortable. And if it all goes wrong, there's always fishing.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: AZ,USA
Posted by GreySnake on Saturday, November 7, 2020 7:12 AM

Looking very nice Harold. 

 
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, November 7, 2020 10:46 PM

GreySnake

Looking very nice Harold. 

 

Thank you G.S., Ferg, Jon, Rob and TigerII. I am almost done with assembly and the base coat S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab paint. I have a little more to do on the interior then I can glue the cab together. The next step will be to install 28 gage, soft copper wire on the canopy as tie-down rope. This will be threaded through the holes on the sides of the canopy and secured on exterior truck bed hooks. Then I can glue the canopy to the truck bed. Once that is done, I can install decals and add the camouflage in Nato Black which will represent S.C.C. 14 paint.

I have practiced free-hand camouflage painting for a couple of days on art paper and decided to use a combination of forest camo airbrush stencil template and free-hand to apply the Matador camouflage. The stencil set is shown below.

Harold

 

 

 

 

  

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, November 8, 2020 9:30 AM

Well;

     It could be used for a camper I guess. Where's their War Surplus office? Oh, by the way How come they sprayed O.D. all over the windows or is that some kind of Preservative I haven't seen before?

 Now, when the paint Job is finished I won't need a Deer Blind that's cramped. I can have a stove to keep warm! Maybe even a Porta-Potty ( Camp potty)

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, November 8, 2020 9:42 AM

Tanker-Builder

Well;

     It could be used for a camper I guess. Where's their War Surplus office? Oh, by the way How come they sprayed O.D. all over the windows or is that some kind of Preservative I haven't seen before?

 Now, when the paint Job is finished I won't need a Deer Blind that's cramped. I can have a stove to keep warm! Maybe even a Porta-Potty ( Camp potty)

 

The stuff on the windows is masking tape. I will leave the tape on until the camouflage, decals and clear coat are finished.

  

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 4:40 AM

I have some good news and bad news. I have completed all the assembly and base coat of S.C.C. 15 paint. Waiting now for the camouflage stencil template to arrive so I can complete the rest of the painting and decals. The bad news is I did not take a photograph of the interior painting before I glued the cab together. I did remember to remove the masking tape on the inside of the windows, but I am afraid the interior will need to wait until the painting is all done to be seen.

I also received Mike Starmer's books today and was pleased to see that my S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab paint matches his colour chip perfectly. However, I was surprised to see that his books updated in 2019 did not include Tamiya mixes. But I have no doubt that Mike is the kind of person that will help modelers find the best Tamiya paint to match whatever British colour we are trying to represent.

The photographs below are take with a combination of direct flash camera lighting and indirect LED and incandescent lighting to reproduce the color as it actually appears to my eyes.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:27 AM

Mike Starmers' definitive article British Vehicle Camouflage, 1939-45 [EDIT: from the mafva.org website]

Dated 30th APRIL 2019,  does include Tamiya Mixes.

Mike is pretty active on the Airfix Tribute Forum RAF Vehicles paint schemes which is full of interesting info.

 

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:15 PM

Jon_a_its

Mike Starmers' definitive article British Vehicle Camouflage, 1939-45

Dated 30th APRIL 2019,  does include Tamiya Mixes.

Mike is pretty active on the Airfix Tribute Forum RAF Vehicles paint schemes which is full of interesting info.

 

 

Jon you are correct, Mike Starmer's article: British Vehicle Camouflage, 1939-1945 amended April 2019 does include Tamiya paint mixes. However, and I want to be careful not to create any misunderstanding here, I was talking about his books:

1. British Army Colours and Disruptive Camouflage in the United Kingdom, France and N.W. Europe, 1936-1945 amended December 2019

2. British Military Camouflage & Colours, Sicily & Italy 1943-1945

3. British Military Camouflage & Colours, Alamen & After 1942-1945

4. British Military Camoulfage & Colours, The Caunter Scheme

I am a great fan of Mike Starmer's research in the field of British Military colours and patterns used during World War II and highly recommend his books. In each book is a sheet of color chips that are not printed, but actual colour chips like the type you would find at a paint store. With each colour chip he indicates the paint he used and, in most cases, it is Humbrol and Revell enamel.

The article you are referring too is an excellent piece of work in which Mike has detailed Tamiya acrylic paint mixes in addition to the enamel paint in his books. And I would venture a guess that Mike considers references he has made to Tamiya acrylic paint a work in progress. For example, in the article Mike indicates S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab can be represented with a mix of Humbrol 150, 159 and 33, or alternative Humbrol 253, 80, 159, 33 and Revell 84. He goes on to say S.C.C. 15 can also be represented with a Tamiya mix of XF81, XF58 and XF71.

When I asked Mike for specific help with a Tamiya acrylic mix that would match S.C.C. 15 he recommended a mix of XF61, XF62 and XF3 and to use Neutral Grey XF53 to lighten the mix. At the time I did not have his books or Neutral Grey, so I used XF66 Light Grey and increased the amount of XF3 and it matched the color chip perfectly.

When I showed Mike what I had done he commented that it was good to see other modelers trying different paint mixes which to me means Tamiya acrylic paint as a substitute for Humbrol and Revell enamel is a work in progress.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:38 AM

Harold

I have edited my post to credit MAFVA hosting Mikes notes.

A thought occours, I have a number of the Humbrol acrylics,numbered the same as the Enamels though sadly not as comprehensive a range.

I moved away from enamels for health & Domestic Harmony reasons.

This 'may' give some more mixing options, though I make no claim for the Acrylic ranges' colour accuracy, which I've used for the RAF colours.

Humbrol Acrylics are reasonably easy to get hold of in the UK, usually right next to the Humbrol Enamels, from Hobbycraft or some Hobby shops.  

 

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:53 AM

Jon, I have a keen interest in British and American aircraft and after Christmas I would like to build several models. An Avro Lancaster Mk-III, Supermarine Spitfire, Boeing B29 Superfortress and Consolidated PBY Catalina. Not all at once of course, but during 2021.

Both my Uncle and my Father were in the Air Force during the Second World War. My Uncle was an RCAF Flying Officer and Pilot of a Lancaster and Spitfire with the RAF in England. My Father was a Technical Staff Sergeant with the 20th Army Air Force in Burma, India.

Regarding enamel paint, I have similar issues in the house. My Wife is very sensitive to paint, so acrylic paint and mild solvents is all I'm allowed to use.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 7:22 AM

Oh My!

 Now that is looking Good !

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: AZ,USA
Posted by GreySnake on Monday, November 16, 2020 11:03 AM

Looking good. 

 
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:17 PM

Hey Harold, excellent work on this British Matador. I like your tri-color scheme.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:01 PM

TigerII

Hey Harold, excellent work on this British Matador. I like your tri-color scheme.

 

Thank you TigerII, GreySnake, and Tanker-Builder I really appreciate your words of encouragement. However, I stuff-it when I tried to use a stencil to apply the camouflage pattern. Then I tried to fix the mess by free hand with my airbrush and that made it even worse. So, as we were taught in the military always have a backup plan, in other words 'Plan-B'. Part of my back up plan was to purchase two AFV Club Matador kits. An Early Type and Mid Production Type as shown below. The two kits are virtually identical except for the cab roof. In fact, the Mid Production Type has all the same parts as the Early Type plus the Mid Production parts.

Since I made a mess of the camouflage painting, but the base coat and primer were smooth I decided to try stripping the acrylic paint. I used heavy duty Easy-Off oven cleaner and sealed the model in a zip-lock bag for two-hours. Then I dipped the model in a bowl of Dawn dish soap for about 2-minutes and rinsed the oven cleaner and dish soap off under warm running water. I also used a large flat paint brush to get into small details. The result is what you see below. The oven cleaner took all the paint off down to the primer. Remember the plastic is a yellow color and the primer was an olive-green. So, what you see in the pictures below is a faded olive green primer. There was no sanding, scrubbing or abrasive of any kind. Just a large soft flat modeling paint brush. When the model was clean I dried it with my airbrush and then let it sit for several hours.

Tomorrow I will give the Matador a fresh coat of primer to cover water stains and when the primer is dry, I should be able to give the model a new S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab base coat. Now for the rest of 'Plan-B'. I have ordered two types of camouflage masking putty, AK Interactive #AK8076 and Ammo Mig #AMIG8012. The Mig Jimenez putty will take a while to get here but the AK product should be here by next Monday. I have never used masking putty, but I understand how it works and I am excited to try it on the Mid Production Matador.

Plan-B has a secondary objective. I wanted to change the canopy from all closed to partially opened, but until I messed up the paint I was not willing to take the model a part. Since the Early Type and Mid Type use the same parts I will put a new partially open canopy on the Mid Production Matador shown below.

Harold

  

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:38 PM

This is most excellent, Sargeant!

I love all of the research you've been putting into this. Love your accuracy on your builds.

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Friday, November 20, 2020 12:48 AM

I remember we had a saying that if Plan A & Plan B don't work just say "F*** it, I'll just John Wayne it." But may I suggest Plan C. If you have it use some Silly Putty to help with your "freehand" camo application. It will help to make clean lines for your camouflage pattern. I hope this helps.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, November 21, 2020 4:07 AM

Cobber I love your attention to detail and your persistence in the face of adversity. Keep it up! I just know this is going to be a sweet beastie in the end.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

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