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Lola T-70 MkIII

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  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:35 PM

This is way more interesting than reading an article after the fact.  Thanks for bringing us along.  I had a couple of questions, but your last post answered one of them (was wondering if this was a vintage racer as it is now vs. factory spec. Never thought of a street car.)  The second is why the use of magnets?  Is it to make mocking things up easier as you go along?  I'm really looking forward to more.

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    October 2020
  • From: Warsaw Poland
Posted by Grzegorz on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 3:22 AM

Scale-Master
Since this is going to be a relatively modern street car, I designed a custom T-70 styled wheel with seven spokes (instead of six) and printed a pair of masters for the front and the rear.  (This is a front.)
 

This is great.

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:09 AM

Thanks guys!

I'm actually a bit farther along on this project than the narrative and photos show, I'm trying to get it caught up here so I can post in "real time" as I progress.

Yes, the magnets are for mocking up and fitting purposes in most cases, but I've found some other uses for them with moving parts.  I was using tiny screws, but they didn't stand up to the rigors of assembly/diassembly.  The heads were stripping out after a dozen uses plus the plastic threads were wearing out.  Even though it takes longer to install magnets, the time saved by using them is worth it.  I can tear down and rebuild most of the car in a couple minutes now.  

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:10 AM
The start of the aluminum rims.  Some T6-6061 stock and a wooden angle block with 22 and 27 degree angles cut into it.  The block was indexed to the tilt-table as a secondary measure to ensure the angles were uniform on all the wheels.
First round of cutting; this will be a rear.
All five wheels, two rears and three fronts, (one for the spare).
I added the radius/fillets and then polished them up.
And a dry fitted front…
 
 

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:15 AM

This is modeling on a whole new level.

BK

On the bench: Alot !

On Deck: Alot more !

 

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, October 22, 2020 10:05 AM

Thanks Brandon!

 

Once in primer I still was not satisfied so I re-engineered the wheel to be three pieces instead of two.
This is the new spoke piece as it was grown.
And then machined.
This is the rear section of the new rim design; it still needs to be final machined.
The U.V. resin is very hard and brittle.  That part did not survive the machining process.
I started growing a beefier part and realized I could probably machine one from scratch faster.
I was correct, made this from scratch before the printer could grow one.
The first front and rear resin copies.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, October 22, 2020 8:18 PM

The half-shafts are done for now. I cast the yokes in resin (dyed black) the 3D masters.

The shafts are brass acid treated for the dark finish.

Each U-joint has four bearings/caps (with E clips) and they work. The half-shafts telescope too.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Friday, October 23, 2020 12:44 AM

Those half shafts are incredible.  A couple more questions.  In one of your earlier posts, you mentioned that the brass piece was acid cut.  Does this mean you are making your own photo etch?  The second is about the tire in the photo of the wheel mock up.  Is that the kit tire or did you scratch build it and cast it in black resin?

 

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Friday, October 23, 2020 10:46 AM

Yes, I used to make my own photo-etch, but I have come up with a similar process that does away with the photo-resist portion of the process and provides at least as good as results.  It still uses the same chemicals to cut the brass.  It can be used to make some parts much easier than "traditional" methods like this rearend cover.

The tire is from the Tamiya kit.  I have made my own tires, (like these)...

But the Lola kit tires are really nice and it would be a shame not to use them.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Friday, October 23, 2020 10:47 AM
The half-shafts are done for now.  The yokes are cast resin (dyed black) copies of 3D masters.
The shafts are brass acid treated for the dark finish. 
Each U-joint has four bearings/caps (with E clips) and they work.  The half-shafts telescope too.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Friday, October 23, 2020 1:41 PM

The rear end cover is simply amazing.  Thanks for answering my questions.  

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:00 AM

Thank you!  And you're welcome!

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:02 AM
I was going to have to adjust the rotor hubs (or make shims) so I decided to mill a new one out of resin stock instead of editing the 3D file and growing a replacement.  This was quicker too.
I machined the rotors from high-pressure-cast aluminum-impregnated resin stock that I cast.
I milled the vents around the perimeter and faced them.
I cross-drilled and slotted them.  They are directional.
This is the natural cut finish of the material.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:06 PM
I painted the Wilwood calipers with a ceramic finish look.  They are Corvette retrofit units I designed in SolidWorks and 3D printed before hand-finishing the masters then casting resin copies. 
I used the somewhat new Tamiya LP-6 Pure Blue for the color of the ceramic finish (like I have on my real car).

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Sunday, October 25, 2020 10:34 AM
The new 3D printed caliper brackets I designed and grew to mount the calipers have been attached to the front spindles.
I carefully saved the rear caliper mounts on the hub carriers when I cut off the molded on calipers from the kit.  But those had to go too because the larger Wilwood calipers couldn't be mounted to them.  

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Monday, October 26, 2020 11:05 AM
Composite brake pads.  They have been seated and used just a little bit…
The pads are installed and the calipers have been dry set up on their respective bracketry.
The rotors, hubs, calipers and pads are all scratch-built. The slide pins are polished steel, but still more hardware to machine for the calipers.
Rears:
Fronts:

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:35 AM
I had to make the coil over shocks next in order to continue mocking up the suspension.
Shock bodies…
Spring tension adjusters/lock rings.  The taller ones fit inside the springs.
Tops of the shocks with the piston shafts.
All press-fitted machined aluminum with the kit provided springs (also friction fit).
I'll paint the springs later.  At least now I can continue engineering and building other pieces of the car…
Yes, there are rubber bushings for the eyelets.
Front shocks installed…
Rear shocks installed…
I also turned an aluminum pulley to drive the alternator and it's mounted to the half-shaft.
Finally, and for the first time it is up on its wheels so I can get an idea of where the ride height is.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:09 AM
Back to working on the alternator; because it has become relevant to the suspension.
More fabrication…
Alternator bracket.  I designed it in SolidWorks and grew it.
Alternator drive pulley.
Assembled alternator bolted to the bracket.  I machined the hardware.
(The fan spins too.)  Still some detail painting to do…
 
I had to make an offset pulley for the alternator to clear the transmission mounts. 
Alternator assembly loosely fitted to the car.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:09 PM

Hmmm;

 I have a Kia Soul.Could I do my alternator like that? LOL.LOL. Very awesome indeed!

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, October 29, 2020 10:09 AM

Sure, it's an OEM alternator, just use your shrink ray to make a copy...

 

I drew up the base of the intake manifold and did a test print to make sure it matched the heads.
I also made a license plate…

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, October 29, 2020 3:15 PM
First print of the full manifold.
Test printed the carb parts I designed at the same time.  In the end it looks like I'll have to machine hardware for them like usual.
Although I was half surprised the lower linkage and springs grew…
 

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Friday, October 30, 2020 10:31 AM
While I was able to engineer in the correct angles for the intake manifold to mate to the block and heads when I designed it; the printer left too much slag on the bottom surfaces and I had to fixture it up in my mill to cut those angles for a proper fit.  This material is very brittle and I was relieved that it took the vise and milling as well as it did.
I also added a couple more magnets to it.
The block received two more magnets too.  As well as brass tubing under the thermostat housing and the distributor to positively locate and align the manifold.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Friday, October 30, 2020 10:17 PM
While I was able to engineer in the correct angles for the intake manifold to mate to the block and heads when I designed it; the printer left too much slag on the bottom surfaces and I had to fixture it up in my mill to cut those angles for a proper fit.  This material is very brittle and I was relieved that it took the vise and milling as well as it did because I've had a few part disintegrate during similar machining.
I also added a couple more magnets to it.
The block received two more magnets too.  As well as brass tubing under the thermostat housing and the distributor to positively locate and align the manifold.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Saturday, October 31, 2020 10:32 AM
I used a carb I test grew as one piece to double check alignment and added brass tubing for a positive fit.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Saturday, October 31, 2020 2:55 PM
The radius rods in the kit are clunky chromed plastic with C type snap "fittings". And they are somewhat flexible. I drew up adjustable rod ends and joints and printed some out. I printed one set assembled together for the rear joints to make mocking it up and sizing the rods easier. The main radius rods are steel rod and the receivers for the control links are brass rod.   Built up the rear suspension rods and ends, and they work with the rest of the moving suspension parts. Steel rods, cast resin joints made from 3D printed masters I designed and grew and brass pivot points.    Made new lower control arms from steel and cast resin ends.

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:52 PM
These are the final masters for the Weber carbs, I grew them from the 3D files I created from scratch.
These are the cast resin tops.  The venturi tubes are stainless steel.  I used a very thin coat of primer then a thin coat of silver to see how they look.  Still more fine tuning to do.
These are the cast resin main bodies; same as the tops, more work to do…

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:08 AM

A couple of more questions for you. I've noticed that when you mocked up your suspension (and other parts) that there were no nuts or bolts yet.  Do you use the nuts and bolts that are commercially available or will you make your own?  The second regards the parts you grow on the printer. Why the use of a translucent material?  Does it give better detail than a more opaque material?  The reason I ask is that while it's cool seeing the part as it comes from the printer, it's hard to see the detail you've designed into the part until it's been painted.  Also, do you worry about the growth lines or does your printer or the commercial printing company you use print layers fine enough that you don't have to clean them up? The carbs look great.

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:38 AM

Okay;

 Enough already! This is going down as the most fascinating I have ever seen. My Budget doesn't allow for those thingies. The Car parts I mean. Well , the Printer too. What is truly fascinating to me is how quickly the machines have progressed to the point they are at.

    You could build a model car truly from scratch. Making every Panel, Piece and Nut, Bolt and Brace and Bracket! WOW ! For Ships this would mean I could do a Coast Guard 85' WHPC and do every Frame, The Keel and even the Plates for the Hull!

       Biggest problem? Cost of the Printer, the Material, and the Smarts around Computer driven stuff, The last, I Definitely Don't have! Oh! You'll have to go to a Jewelery or Watch supply company for Nuts, Bolts and such.

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:28 AM

Tanker-Builder

Okay;

 Enough already! This is going down as the most fascinating I have ever seen. My Budget doesn't allow for those thingies. The Car parts I mean. Well , the Printer too. What is truly fascinating to me is how quickly the machines have progressed to the point they are at.

    You could build a model car truly from scratch. Making every Panel, Piece and Nut, Bolt and Brace and Bracket! WOW ! For Ships this would mean I could do a Coast Guard 85' WHPC and do every Frame, The Keel and even the Plates for the Hull!

       Biggest problem? Cost of the Printer, the Material, and the Smarts around Computer driven stuff, The last, I Definitely Don't have! Oh! You'll have to go to a Jewelery or Watch supply company for Nuts, Bolts and such.

 

 

 

Okay;

Since you mention it, I have built models 100% completely from scratch.   Including making all the items most people source from other kits. 

The last one I built did not even use 3D technology of any kind on it.  I did it fully with "old school" modeling; even the parts I machined were done manually on a twenty-something year old entry level mill.  

(It earned the Best of Show and several other awards at the 2015 GSL.)

You're right about the speed of growth of the new technology, but at the same time prices are dropping too; a really good 3D printer is far less expensive than a decent lathe, or than you may think.  And the materials are very inepensive when you realize how far they go.  I spend more annually on resin casting supplies by a significant amount.

Free 3D software is available, (although I use some kind of pricey software for my "real" job and use it for modeling too).  Check out Sketchup, it's still free. Most come with easy to follow tutorials so just about anyone can figure it out.  That's how I learned...

Jewelry and watch parts usually do not look like scaled down hex nuts and bolts, so they don't work for me, especially for smaller scale projects.  Plus they are far more expensive than me making my own from scratch, in addition I get enjoyment from creating what I want as compared to settling for what might work.

If you actually wanted to make these kinds of parts, time is probably the biggest investment you'll need to make.  Actual out of pocket cost is not that much.  I built the model above for under $350.00 in raw materials. 

Tamiya makes a wonderful kit of a similar car in the same scale, it will set you back close to $700.00 plus the paint and other items to assemble it. Dollar for dollar I got more building value out of mine than from a kit.

If you're interested in this type of modeling I'd suggest you do some real research into this stuff; I think you'll be surprised how affordable it really is.  If you have the time it will most certainly pay off.

 

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October 2020
Posted by Scale-Master on Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:43 AM

lewbud
  
A couple of more questions for you. I've noticed that when you mocked up your suspension (and other parts) that there were no nuts or bolts yet.  Do you use the nuts and bolts that are commercially available or will you make your own?  The second regards the parts you grow on the printer. Why the use of a translucent material?  Does it give better detail than a more opaque material?  The reason I ask is that while it's cool seeing the part as it comes from the printer, it's hard to see the detail you've designed into the part until it's been painted.  Also, do you worry about the growth lines or does your printer or the commercial printing company you use print layers fine enough that you don't have to clean them up? The carbs look great.  

  

 

 

I answered these out of sequence since the answers to the second post also were also relevent to the prior.

Yes, I make all my own hardware.  But during the mock-up stage I'll sometimes use phillip head or other out of scale fasteners that are easier to install and remove.  They are discarded during final assembly for the more accurate looking parts I'll make.

 

The printer came with the translucent resin material.  Frankly I don't care for it.  It's very brittle.  It's my understanding that the resins for my printer yield the same results whether clear or opaque.  Since I'm primarily using them as masters for cast parts I'll use up what I have before changing resins.

 

There are grow lines, but the hight of the print layers can be adjusted.  It's a trade off as it takes longer to grow finer parts and there are limitiations too.  Also oreintaion of the parts is important to hide the lines. 

The parts Fraxional grew for me were done at a higher resulotion than I use most of the time.  Very little clean-up was required, mosty just addressing support points (like cleaning up an injection molded part where it was attached to the sprue).

I think I have found an acceptable balance of resolution knowing how much will be filled in by paint without losing details.  Sometimes there is a good amount of hand and/or machine finishing reqired, but I design & compensate that into the part before it is grown.

 

And thanks!

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

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