Wanting to Scratchbuild Star Trek Models

Why not do it by hand?

Don't forget that the way we learned how to do compound curves with balsa wood also works with styrene.  Glue up a laminate and then sand to the final shapes.  You can get large pieces of inexpensive sheet styrene from companies that install countertops.  They often use it to make templates prior to cutting the countertops.  I got a bunch of scrap pieces a while back that were about 0.020" thick by 18" x 24".  They are usually dirty on one side but a bit of sanding will clean that right up, especially since you'd be doing a laminate anyway.  I used this technique to build the leading edges for the center section of an He-111Z a few years ago.

SNOOPY wrote:

Would it be considered cheating if I draw up some shop drawings and went to a machine chop to have them made and then just assembled everything?  Not sure how much this all would cost but I do not know any other way.

It would not be considered cheating to do so. When you build a plastic model kit, someone makes the plastic parts for you, then you assemble them, and that isn't cheating, so this is no different.

However, it will probably be quite expensive to have a shop make the parts for you. I would suggest that you look at the model in an "exploded" view in your mind. Try to break it up into its simplest components. Draw out each component to see how they will interact with its neighboring parts. Once you do that, the challenge of hand-making each part seems less daunting, and more fun.

By the way, I just visited the Starfleet Museum for the first time the other day, it's way cool!

 

 

If you have the basic side, front & plan views with scales, as provided in the Start Trek Field Manual, you have more than enough to do it.

Are you planning on building the model out of wood, or have you thought about making a vacuformed model, using wooden masters to make the parts?

I remember thinking, too, when the Starfleet Technical Handbook first came out, and seeing the other ship classes, that the old AMT Enterprise could serve as the basis for those other ships.  Of course, there has been 30+ years' worth of progress in models, and several generations of new Star Trek material since then, but I've always had that idea in the back of my mind.

Regards

Brad

the Baron wrote:

I remember thinking, too, when the Starfleet Technical Handbook first came out, and seeing the other ship classes, that the old AMT Enterprise could serve as the basis for those other ships.  Of course, there has been 30+ years' worth of progress in models, and several generations of new Star Trek material since then, but I've always had that idea in the back of my mind.

My Dad and did that as a kid.  He bought three or four of the AMT kits.  I took one and made a destroyer.  Relatively easy as it was basically just replacing the bottom hull with a single engine nacelle.  My Dad tried to build a dreadnaught but I don't remember him completing it.  I held onto mine for the longest time (move after move after move) but it must have finally bit the dust as it is gone now ).

 

ModelNerd wrote:

SNOOPY wrote: Would it be considered cheating if I draw up some shop drawings and went to a machine chop to have them made and then just assembled everything?  Not sure how much this all would cost but I do not know any other way.  It would not be considered cheating to do so. When you build a plastic model kit, someone makes the plastic parts for you, then you assemble them, and that isn't cheating, so this is no different. However, it will probably be quite expensive to have a shop make the parts for you. I would suggest that you look at the model in an "exploded" view in your mind. Try to break it up into its simplest components. Draw out each component to see how they will interact with its neighboring parts. Once you do that, the challenge of hand-making each part seems less daunting, and more fun. By the way, I just visited the Starfleet Museum for the first time the other day, it's way cool!

I figured that having a machine shop make like parts would probably cost more than I am willing to spend.  The things I worry about making are the saucer section with the tapers or rounded shape and some of the hull shapes that are not perfectly round like a tube but are a bunch of compound arcs.  I guess for hulls I can take bass wood and shape with a table saw then sand the rest away and then make into a resin casting or try vacuum forming.  I do not have a vacuum forming machines so that I may also have to build. 

Badger wrote:

If you have the basic side, front & plan views with scales, as provided in the Start Trek Field Manual, you have more than enough to do it.

I am not to worried about the break down of shapes.  I am more worried that when it comes to tools, I have drill press and table saw.  I did once try to make a saucer section and other tapered parts the way Woody did it in a group build awhile back but the edges would never get smooth.  It may have been from the type of grit sandpaper or the coarseness of the file used.  I also has a hard time trying to align circular parts to keep them centered.  The Dadealus Class has a lot of circular parts and just could not get things to line up. 

agentg wrote:

Study the diagram closely. Break everything down into it's most elementary shape. Looks like the only part with any sort of taper/compound curves is the engineering hull. Take your time and I betcha ( I live in Vegas doncha know ) you will be able to find tube/rod/sheet/etc. to build over half the ship. The other answers will serve you well for the remainder. Good Luck

Thanks!

I once built two enterprise, paterns actually for vacuum formed kits. when I had to make the dishes, I used a router with a radius arm to cut plywood circles. Stacking three together to make the base saucer In the center of this I mounted a metal rod axis a lump of patern making foam in the middle for a foundation. Then a profile tool made of of wood with a hole for the axis is designed with the same contours as the saucer. A whole mess of bondo is applied and the profiler is revolved screeding the bondo into the desired shape. Two or three applications yielded the desired effect. Substitute styrene for plywood and you should be set, I suppose bondo is a suitable medium on styrene, just don't over kick it as the profile tool should make several laps before the filler hardens. don't forget to clean the tool between coats.  As for the main hull again profile templates cut to scale used to check your progress as you carve/sand balsa?, foam?, a block of kryptonite into the desired shape. 

rabbiteatsnake wrote:

I once built two enterprise, paterns actually for vacuum formed kits. when I had to make the dishes, I used a router with a radius arm to cut plywood circles. Stacking three together to make the base saucer In the center of this I mounted a metal rod axis a lump of patern making foam in the middle for a foundation. Then a profile tool made of of wood with a hole for the axis is designed with the same contours as the saucer. A whole mess of bondo is applied and the profiler is revolved screeding the bondo into the desired shape. Two or three applications yielded the desired effect. Substitute styrene for plywood and you should be set, I suppose bondo is a suitable medium on styrene, just don't over kick it as the profile tool should make several laps before the filler hardens. don't forget to clean the tool between coats.  As for the main hull again profile templates cut to scale used to check your progress as you carve/sand balsa?, foam?, a block of kryptonite into the desired shape.

you wouldn't have any pictures or diagrams of your setup would you?  I kind of lost you at the profile tool axis.  were you able to to remove the plywood?

Another option for some of your most complicated parts would be "three dimensional printing", or whatever the technique is called.  Its similar to your shop idea, but stuff is designed on a computer (by the customer in most cases) and produced in a specialty shop from some kind of plastic or resin or...something..I forget which.  FSM had an article on the subject sometime in the last few years in which the author had a complicated compressor made for a diarama--can anybody help out by telling us which issue? I don't have my back-issues handy atm.

BGuy wrote:

Another option for some of your most complicated parts would be "three dimensional printing", or whatever the technique is called....

I don't remember the issue it appeared in, but this is called stereo lithography, or also known as rapid prototyping. The results are excellent. However, the outputs can cost as much as having someone machine a part. Not to mention the expense of a 3-D program (although Alibre Design Xpress can be downloaded for free!), and the necessity to learn the software. I don't want to discourage anyone from learning this technique, however, as it is a highly useful and flexible technique. I use it for modeling and outputting my casting masters. It beats whittling plastic, for certain.

You can read more about rapid prototyping here: www.printapart.com

ModelNerd wrote:

BGuy wrote: Another option for some of your most complicated parts would be "three dimensional printing", or whatever the technique is called.... I don't remember the issue it appeared in, but this is called stereo lithography, or also known as rapid prototyping. The results are excellent. However, the outputs can cost as much as having someone machine a part. Not to mention the expense of a 3-D program (although Alibre Design Xpress can be downloaded for free!), and the necessity to learn the software. I don't want to discourage anyone from learning this technique, however, as it is a highly useful and flexible technique. I use it for modeling and outputting my casting masters. It beats whittling plastic, for certain. You can read more about rapid prototyping here: www.printapart.com

You do not need a 3-D software program.  Most can do it from a 2D drawing that is saved as a DXF file.  The resin they use is not real stable.  In different environments the resin starts to lose its integridy.  I work with this stuff all the time.  For modeling it is a good thing if you can afford the price of it.  Most places do prefer the 3D because it can be downloaded where the 2D needs a little help.

Plywood was chosen as the material for size considerations, your project should use styrene.  heres a diagramHope this answers any questions, as for cutting circles Olfa makes a tool which will cut a 7.5" circle, they should be available at most art/craft stores.

Actually, it depends on the size.  I would prefer ash 1"x4", myself.

rabbiteatsnake wrote:

Plywood was chosen as the material for size considerations, your project should use styrene.  heres a diagramHope this answers any questions, as for cutting circles Olfa makes a tool which will cut a 7.5" circle, they should be available at most art/craft stores.

Thanks this helps me understand better what you where saying.  After doing this you made a vacuform part?  Some thing for me to try.  I really wish I had a lathe or back in maching school but these types of things will have to do.

RABBITEATSNAKE:  Well I tried my way first and it did not work so well.  Here is a picture of what i did,

I am not sure why tha plastic when sanded started to chip and break.  It does not look pretty.  I am probably going to have to try your method now.  You mentioned Bondo, is this the resin stuff?  I do not need the fiberglass fabic right, just resin?  On your sketch above, what is the base made of plywood?  Also, after you use the tapered tool and let dry do you then make a casting or is it good as is?

Looks like the plastic melted and tore away during deterioration.
You may have been removing too much material too fast.

rabbiteatsnake wrote:

Plywood was chosen as the material for size considerations, your project should use styrene.  heres a diagramHope this answers any questions, as for cutting circles Olfa makes a tool which will cut a 7.5" circle, they should be available at most art/craft stores.

This is a very comprehensible technique.

SprueOne wrote:

Looks like the plastic melted and tore away during deterioration. You may have been removing too much material too fast. This is a very comprehensible technique.

SprueOne - Any ideas on a less comprehensive technique.  I may try this all over but do it a little slow and so it does not get to hot.  I did not think the plastic would look like this.  I know steel when it gets hot can become brittle but I was not thinking of plastic doing it.  I figured if it got hot it would melt not rip chunks.

SNOOPY wrote:

. . . You mentioned Bondo, is this the resin stuff?  I do not need the fiberglass fabic right, just resin?  On your sketch above, what is the base made of plywood?  Also, after you use the tapered tool and let dry do you then make a casting or is it good as is?

Bondo is a polyester auto body putty. It is mixed with a hardener and cures within an hour. Actually perfect for this application as illustrated in the instruction drawing. The base disc material can be plastic or wood.

The comprehensible technique I was refering to was the drawing and instructions provided by Rattlesnakebite.

Dude! Google "David Merriman" (use the quotes) and check out his scratchbuilding articles on CutlTVMan's site - I went looking for the "screed" technique already described.  Lots of help on the internet... Cheers!

I did a couple of scratchbuilt Star Trek models from the museum some time back, using dense foam. a bandsaw and a pneumatic grinder/sander.

I blew up the plans for the Penguin fighter and used them as templates:

Contoured shape: 

Primed:

Finished model:

 

It not star trek and Its not in english but the pictures can give you a good idea of what to do.

http://www.geocities.jp/dourakuoyadi/index.html

 I don't understaned it either, but their are enough pictues you can get a good idea what is going one.  They may not help for the saucer section but it should help with the engines.

 Good luck.

 

  BADGER , I dinna care if you do it but ,please , laddie ,use STARFLEET,S ENGINEERING MANUAL on STARSHIP CONSTRUCTION ,We must,nt let the others know we engineers can do this easier than they ,,and ,och ,mon ,dinna let on to the captain what it is you,re doin .       TANKERBUILDER