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Painting anchor chain in a 1/700 scale.

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  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Painting anchor chain in a 1/700 scale.
Posted by Blindluck on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:41 AM

Good morning all,

I am farily new to this amazing world of plastic ship building. Just a little info. I am building the USS Anteitam CV-36 1953 version. Unfortunately the only company that I have found that makes it is Dragon and it is 1/700 scale.

The anchor chain is part of the mold and isn't real good looking so I have decided to put a real chain on. The problem I am having is the primer is not sticking to the small chain that I bought. The chain looks to be copper. It is so small It is hard to tell. Does anyone have any helpfull tricks to get the paint to stick to it. I am using spray can to apply it.

Thanks

Brian

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:03 AM

If it is copper, there are chemical solutions that will darken it, and they are very thin- do not bulk up the chain.  Brass blackening solutions will work on copper.  Put a little in a small cup or such, and repeatedly dip the chain in it.  Wash thoroughly when you are satisfied with the color.  Google brass blackening solutions, or I think Micro Mark has it also.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:16 AM

Thanks Don, I will check it out! If by chance it just looks like copper and it is not. Do you have any ideas on how to get paint to stick to it?

Thanks

Brian

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:37 AM

Do a soak in lacquer thinner to remove the oils left during the forming process.   Follow this by a soak (overnight) in a mild acid such as vinegar to etch a bit of tooth into the surface of the metal.

Rinse well in plain water and allow to air dry.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:49 AM

Look long and hard at the net benefit before you remove the old chain.

1/700 is pretty tiny stuff, and jewelry chain is all wrong.

On anything less than 1/96, I've generally wished I didn't try.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 12:21 PM

Thanks!! That is a good idea I will give it a try.

Appreciate the help!!

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 1:17 PM

Yeah I beat myself up about removing the old chain. I did find an amazingly small chain and it is not perfect but it is way better than what was molded on the deck. If it had been more defined and pronounced I probably would have left it. Tried to painting it so it looks a little rough. I am cleaning it up. Like I said I am relatively new to this so I am learning on the fly.

Thanks for you help and taking the time to impart your wisdom.

Brian

  • Member since
    September, 2010
Posted by potchip on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:00 PM

One aspect that always puzzled me is the idea of priming. Every model tutorial like to suggest primer as a mandatory step, to undercoat for the sake of undercoating. I use primer sparingly for 2 specific purposes:

1. cosmetic checks for scratches/fits/gaps etc where smooth finish is essential

2. even out the colours when there are drastic differences in underlying color (metal/dark/white plastic) and that I know the main coat is a color with poor coverage such as white.

I would never bother priming something that I'm going to paint black, unless it's for reason 1 (shiny reflective coats).

Primer typically has a coarser grain than your main coat, the whole concept of primer adding adhersion is logical but redundant in my opinion. Most primer are lacquer and if you use lacquer paints anyway then there's no additional advantage in adding an extra layer. It's always the first lacquer to metal surface (eg chains) that counts.  Then I use acylic and despite their admittedly weaker adhersion, has never had any issue with my paint not sticking to most common model surfaces be it metal/plastic/resin so don't see the need.

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:56 PM

Chain rode for a cruiser is going to be about 4" wire gauge (diameter of the "bar" of the links).  Those links are about 10-11" wide and 20-22" long. 
At 1/350 that's a link that is about 1/32" x 1/16" long.  So, at 1/700 you need links about 1/32" long and 1/64" wide (0.3125 x 0.015625" 0.8mm x 0.4mm).

I have seen chain that would be 6' scale high, which does not really improve things.

Now, there are photoetch and 3d printed micro chains out there, which cah work very nicely.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 14, 2017 1:05 AM

I like the 3D chain, but I haven't seen it at a smaller scale that about 1/100.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by Surface_Line on Thursday, September 14, 2017 2:55 AM

I agree that real chain has a place, but you might do well with the molded chain, too.

This might be another technique you haven't encountered yet - "drybrushing". 

To do this, first paint the deck the final grey color it will be.  Then get out some black paint and a small piece of cardboard or a 3x5" filecard.  Get some black paint on your brush and then rub most of it off on the cardboard.  Then, with your brush just barely wet, lightly rub it across the high spots of the chain.  Practice makes perfect.

As far as real chain, model railroad supply stores usually carry small chain of 40 links per inch, or bigger at 36 links per inch.  It is not the kind of studded link that is on the real ship, but in 1/700, it is the effect that is important.  Also, those railroad chains can come in gold or black.  My local shop carries the A-Line brand.

Practice.  :-)

Good luck,
Rick

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:04 AM

Various chemicals work well on other metals as well as copper.  The normal brass blackening solutions work on brass, copper and some other metals.  I would buy some and try it on a short length of the chain.  It has other uses than with chain.  Works fine on brass PE for parts that need a dark gray finish.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:41 PM
Thanks Don
Wish I could post a pic of the chain so you could see is for your self. This forum doesn't allow it that I can see! Where can you buy Gravoxide? I looked on line and didn't really find a place. There some engraving supply places but don't show that they sell it.

Love the advice thank you!!

Brian

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:45 PM

You can post links to pictures on this forum.

You'll need a hosting site. I use Fotki. It's not free but it's pretty inexpensive and ad free.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:48 PM

I have a WD MyCloud and am wondering if there is a way to use the public folder to pull pics from there?

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Thursday, September 14, 2017 1:02 PM

Hey Rick thanks for the tip! I have done drybrushing! It works well, a little slow going but hey we are modelers not assemblers. LOL! The chain I have is 1/32 wide. Which is a hair bigger and I mean a hair. The hole through the deck is jus a fuzz tight I can get the chain through it but to tight for my liking. I used a 1/32 drill bit and by hand I made the hole a little wider. The chain is under the flight deck so not to noticablbe.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Thursday, September 14, 2017 1:09 PM

3D photo etch anchor chain... Hum who do you bend that !!! LOL Thanks for the tip!

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Minnesota, Twin Cities Metro Area
Posted by Blindluck on Thursday, September 14, 2017 1:15 PM

The USS Anteitam CV-36 1953 IS an aircraft carrier my Dad served on. The latest ship with that name is CG-54 missile cruiser. Which I think you are referring to. Love the size info it helps a lot. 

Thank you.

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Thursday, September 14, 2017 2:27 PM

Go to a gun shop. They have blackening agents for brass, copper, solder, aluminum. Sometimes works for stainless steel wire or braided wire too. Perfect for brass PE.

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, September 15, 2017 8:00 PM

Bluejacket (used to) sell a BlackenIt; as did Dromedary (are they still around?)

Not the best price per volume, but handy sizes for modeler's purposes.

If you have photos in a shared location, right click on the desired image, and select Copy Image Location.  Go to the Insert/Edit Image icon (looks like a mountain)  When the dialog opens, where it says Source, paste (CTRL+V) the link saved from the image there.
If you want, you can specify the width if you want--the image below is 500 (pixels) wide.
This image is from my Google Photos site.

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