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I Wonder What high Pressure would do for us .

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  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
I Wonder What high Pressure would do for us .
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, March 12, 2018 7:23 AM

You Know ;

 High Pressure Steam moves a lot of heavy stuff . So does High Pressure Hydraulic Fluid .

 I do wonder if High pressure Customer reaction or requests would do for the modeling community . Why ? Well , they keep re-capping old stuff that many of us have seen a thousand times .

 How about giving us a nicely done Normandie or Andrea Doria in 1/350 with P.E. ? Sure would be cheaper than $950.00 for the resin offering of the Normandie .

 It's just like the Lakes freighters .They've been around since the days of sail .But , What's available ?  A kit of the Edmund Fitzgerald maybe ? Gee , here's a whole series of " Boats " ( they've always been called Boats , don't ask me why ) that carried Rail Cars , Taconite and other stuff . And like the  "Crossing " ship , there were a lot of different passenger steamers out there , That traveled the lakes .

   Look what happened to the Wolverine . She started that way . Wouldn't a before and after kit be grand ? In Plastic NADA ! We have a lot of historic vessels that have been ignored by American companies . Also other companies in general .

 Wouldn't it be nice if Revell or someone we like did a whole line of American Ships and Boats in one scale for us Americans to enjoy , say 1/350 scale? . Why I might even buy a bunch just for me . I would even grab a re-release of the " Natchez " By Lindberg or Lifelike . Rather than the old overdone Robt.E.Lee . See , no American river vessels either .

 Well it's just an opinion , and just like most of them it'll probably be ignored as usual ! .At least I got it off my old chest . Tanker - Builder        P.S. In Paper ( Card ) you'll find freighters , oilers , passenger and stick as well as modern freighters and all the military you could want . Not well known stuff , But a large selection . I figured I would save my Paper ones  for the nursing home where childrens scissors and Elmers would be the only thing allowed .

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:34 AM

TB,

I have been lobbying the major manufacturers for over a decade about the need for a greater number and variety of sailing ship kits, not just the same tired and old repops.  It has been to no avail.  I have also called for other sailing ship modelers to join in this lobbying effort.  I will gladly continue to do so with your preferred projects as well.

Bill

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Monday, March 12, 2018 10:51 AM

Tanker-Builder,
  You've painted a far worse picture of my hobby than I imagined...  Safety Scissors and Eatable glue.
 
     Maybe what we need is a Lottery winner who's a Model  enthusiast to start-up a US manufacturing plant.  Competition might be the best pressure.
 
 
I think you hit my exposed nerve.  I'm going out to buy lottery tickets.
 
 
     Joking aside, I have a lot to say on this topic as I have followed the manufactures and their Model ship releases. I have written too. Recently I pointed out forum links to Revell Germany as regards a couple of Revell's discontinued  Sailing ships.  At least I did not get back a form letter.
 
 I'll add another 2 cents after some other forum members chime in.
 
        Nino
  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, March 12, 2018 2:59 PM

Tanker - Builder

 I do wonder if High pressure Customer reaction or requests would do for the modeling community . Why ? Well , they keep re-capping old stuff that many of us have seen a thousand times .

 How about giving us a nicely done Normandie or Andrea Doria in 1/350 with P.E. ? Sure would be cheaper than $950.00 for the resin offering of the Normandie .

  

I believe that market does not exist to support such an investment. 1/350 liners in a long run kit, affordable priced for builders? I doubt that any company would make back the money on such an investment for research, materials, and tooling. Even a such a kit in a short run release, with its corresponding higher price, would not likely make back the money required for development. 

The re pops? Well, as long as they sell and can make money off of moldings made and paid off long ago... I remember as a youngster that Revell had an extensive line of ship kits in various scales. Tugboat, Fire boat, iconic sailing vessels, warships of every description, ocean liners. It was literally a target rich environment of kit choices. Obviously at that time the market supported such a variety. But modeling has lost those numbers of customers. Fewer modelers overall, and fewer of those modelers build ships.

It is what it is.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, March 12, 2018 4:42 PM

Thanks a Bunch , Nino;

 I wish for much in my old age . Now that the technology is there to really make anything , Sail or Steam or just M.Vs really accurate and do-able . I guess the American companies are afraid of making money .That certainly hasn't stopped the Chinese or Japanese mfgrs. has it ?

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, March 12, 2018 4:53 PM

Aw , Cmon Stik !

 I know at least a few states full of shipmodelers . How do you suppose the R.C. and niche mfgrs of R.C. Sized kits stay in business . I still don't have as much wrapped up in an 1/72 scale Corvette from W.W.2 as I would have in the Normandie .. At least I can sail the Corvette . All I could do is look at the Normandie .

 Think about this too .There is an old company , granted a small one that has been in business for over 100 years ( Bluejacket Shipcrafters ) and they constantly release new stuff .Yes , Stik , I am serious . There is a market , and based on my research , it would grow exponentially if the product was out there .

 $1,000,000.00 invested  would generate at least a 150 % return in three years . Research would take about , in these days of the internet  45 to 90 days and mold making another 45 days . Marketing and advertising another 45 to 60 days . Badda Bing, Badda Boom .

 If I was thirty years younger I would take up the gauntlet in a minute . I might not at the age I am now see my dream come true , surely you understand ..

   Revell doesn't even offer half of what they did . I am sure the molds are paid for for sure !! And I am not blowing smoke . Bad Shipmodels went south .That's on the new owners not past owners .Lindberg is over the ropes and under new mgmt .Why , Well the Public tore their new stuff up before they ever saw it .All based on what if comments . How would you keep going if at a trade show , Before it opened The competition blasted what you had and it was much better than they expected ?

 I know for a personal fact that one product was based and scaled from Actual Naval Blueprints from the country of origin as well as existing photos of the real vessel . Talk about heartbreak ! Old guys like me can't do this . It has to be a youngster with a dream and the ability to see this dream live .

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, March 12, 2018 6:52 PM

R/C and scale display models are usually two different animals. There are some builders who build a scale display model into a functioning R/C type, but I suspect, not that many. Just like the wood ship modelers and the plastic ship modelers are two separate groups. It’s like model railroaders- yes they all fall under that group but then break down into their preferred scale:O, HO, N, etc. And the train companies cater to each category of those folks. While some of their stuff is useful to a static scale model builder, they don’t cater much directly by having Railroad guns or armored trains for the static scale modelers.

Now mind you I love a scale ship model. But what are the demographics of that group? Is it mostly older? Younger? What is the rate of new folks entering as opposed to the older ones leaving or dying off? How many affordable and simple entry level kits are out there for the novice ship building modeler? And how many experienced ship modelers are encouraging the neophytes to take up that kit? How many times do you hear an old hand say, “stay away from kit X... it’s old worn out junk”. Then recommending some expensive high parts count kit and A,B, C,& D expensive aftermarket items to the newbie. Wood decks, Photo Etch everything, and turned metal barrels sure look good. But are they appropriate for the new builder? As opposed to remembering when they cut their own modeling teeth on such a basic kit and encouraging them to start simple. Instead of crawl, walk, run, they suggest a marathon first thing.

I don’t know where these leagues of new modelers for any subject area are going to come from. Few kids are interested nowadays, and how many of them stick with it while getting their life going with career, family, etc. Many give it up and some of them come back later once life has stabilized. But it’s always fewer than before.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Monday, March 12, 2018 7:38 PM

Tanker - Builder
I would even grab a re-release of the " Natchez " By Lindberg or Lifelike .

I have the "Natchez" .... The original Pyro release. I would love to see somebody do another "up-dated" kit of this. But it would probably bring a "premium" price.

The original cost ... what $10. Now they would want $200 for the same chunk of plastic.

Having a few new sailing vessle's to chose from would be nice.

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage".

  

 

    

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:54 AM

I love civil ships and boats, especially work boats.  That 1:700 Fitz is a pretty good kit.  A friend had the kit, decided he would never build it, so he gave it to me because he knew I'd build it.  Another friend who does a lot of resin casting had a water/waves base and gave that to me.

Good news is that there are a number of plans of lakers available, if you are up to scratch building.  They are in a large scale, most of them in 1:192, so they build up several feet long.  If you want to scale it down, photoetch is available for railings and ladders. 

Wood is a pretty cheap building material, and using the bread and butter method there is not a lot of carving to do- lakers had pretty simple lines, a very full hull.  For most of their length, the cross section is a simple rectangle with just a slight rounding of the chine (area where bottom meets side).

I'd love a kit of the Wolverine!

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: ohio I want to leave
Posted by armor 2.0 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 8:59 AM

What you do is get a major amount of cash together and by revell for the amount of debt from hobbico and there you go you can manufacturer whatever you want. No problem.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:00 PM

Gentlemen,

The answer I frequently and repeatedly get from manufacturers is that there are few ship modelers.  If true, then please explain the over 27,000 members of www.Modelshipworld.com,  active builders all.  If true, then please explain the thousands of member of www.shipsinscale.com, or www.modelwarships.com, among others.  We ship modelers exist by the tens of thousands.  The Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans seem to understand this fact, but the American and European manufacturers ignore us.  It's time that we have a concerted and active lobbying effort to help our hobby grow even more.

Bill

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:50 PM

If the Aisian makers are flooded with requests for certain hulls, eventually the US and Euro makers will followsuit, just to get a piece of the pie.  All it takes is one, and the dominos will start.

 

Digressing from the thread, when TB said high pressure, thought he was talking blood pressure, and I know what itachieved for the both of us.  I only got the stents along with a de-fib and pacemaker, TB got the full treatment.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:30 PM

armor 2.0

What you do is get a major amount of cash together and by revell for the amount of debt from hobbico and there you go you can manufacturer whatever you want. No problem.

There is the old saying:

How do you make a million dollars in the hobby industry?  Start with 2 million.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:06 PM

Ah Timmy ;

 That is why I don't have one now .My maximum budget for a ship is fifty bucks and that includes detailing parts and paint .

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:09 PM

Hi Don ;

 You are so right there .years ago I was on a laker bent .I used a lot of two by fours and had lakers all over the house .Thank goodness my foster father could get me good wood . And yes , very simple lines for Great Ships all !

 Oh , and remember Don , 90% of my display fleet is scratchbuilt . Sometimes it just takes too long to get the info .

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:16 PM

Hi;

 Well , after the market survey , my advisor said stay away from that debt .To Many legal and licensing entanglements in residual , not paid or only partially paid , over the years . Due to that , the One Mil wouldn't have made a dent .

 One would have to get the molds unencumbered and that isn't possible . Sad too , some nice ships hiding in there .

 If it was possible at this late stage in my life and I had the funds I would start U.S.Ship Shop and redo and refine many out there including leasing and what have you , the molds to make it happen . No can do .

One well heeled investor said I had a good idea but I would have to get at least four year agreements with the other mold owners . Two contacts said no dice , eight years . or nothing . So there you have it .

 You can't open the doors with those kind of encumberments up front .

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:21 PM

Oh Yeah !

And , Boy , did that slow me down . Didn't stop me . Just went from turbocharged V-8 to a feeble four . Nah , I feel alright .

 I am just peeved that the doctors are driving cars I paid for ! Just think how much seed money went to them ! Oh Well , I guess that's why it's called life . Right ?

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:25 PM

Armor 2.0 ,Are you saying ?

 Be the new guy on the block ? Do you have any idea how much B&*^ S*&^@ that would generate .? It's like an old southern Good Ole Boys club now ! You would have to go in with six Mil just to shut mouths .

 I have two friends . Both tried to revive their companies with New products .They were slaughtered before the press releases were even released nationally .That's the way it is here .

 They don't dare react that way to our Asian friends because of various trade agreements . Home Boys , Suck it Up !!! you don't stand a chance .

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:32 PM

Tanker - Builder
 

 I have two friends . Both tried to revive their companies with New products .They were slaughtered before the press releases were even released nationally .That's the way it is here .

  

If one of your friends is with Lindberg. Well, let’s just say that their “rebirth flagship” 1/72 IJN sub release was savaged with good reason. A member of our IPMS Chapter was tasked by IPMS USA to review that kit when released. While it may have been suitable to be an R/C model, as a scale display model it was terrible. Everything was toylike and way overscale. The deck hatches (and pretty much everything else) were way oversize, the midget sub only resumbled the real thing and compared to the Fine Molds model of the same subject was a poor second. The fit was atrocious, according to our member, etc. etc. etc. Now this is a guy I’ve seen turn some pretty old basic models fantastic builds. Being an aerospace guy, he walked us thru every critique reason in his review, backed it up with reference material, and explained his reasoning. He himself went into the build with high hopes for the Lindberg rebirth (he’s no snob or rivet counter), only to come away highly disappointed and bulling his way thru a most challenging kit.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:23 AM

Stikpusher, 
      Regarding that Lindberg Sub with the Kaitens; I  never saw the kit but word gets around and I knew enough not to look for one.  All the manufacturers had bad days. Aurora with the asymmetric Yamato, Revell and their Essex class angled deck kits with the escalator that never lined up with the hull and Monogram's smaller 1 piece hull Constitution with minimal tumblehome.
     They had successes  too. Lindberg's original ship kits like Wappen Von Hamburg and La Flore were/are good models for the price. They just sell better as Pirate ships.  Also, Aurora's fine model of the Atlantis  and Monograms USS Chicago with the great Hull are excellent examples of good kits I'd like to build. Revell and its 1/96 Constitution and Cutty Sark are constantly listed as among the 10 best plastic Sailing ship kits ever. The US manufacturers proved they could do it in the past. How do we convince them to do it again with something new?
 
Maybe we can get them to see the light by small steps.
 
With that in mind, a  positive note...
 
       If the Manufacturers  want to keep issuing the same "Names" as a kit, it is an idea that seems to be working. By choosing a missing Scale and/or improving quality on existing kits, the same Ships are still being bought. We have a 1/700 & 1/350 Graf Zeppelin by Trumpeter, more accurate 1/700 & 1/350 Yorktown class carriers by Academy and Trumpeter and a new/improved PT-109 by Revell!  The Sailing Ship world is going the same way.  Revell gave us a new 1/450 Victory (Like we really needed another Victory) and Zvezda over the years has done quite a few "new" kits like the  1/350 Revenge, Golden Hind, and Santa Maria.  These are not "new" ship models but at least they are better than the previous versions available in similar scales.  The Manufacturers could do better. For instance, how about a 1/350 USS  Constitution?  I've got every  Constitution kit available in Plastic, BUT THERE IS NO 1/350 CONSTITUTION KIT.
 
     Still, it would be great to see really new models. The Plans and other resources are available for countless Ships. Wouldn't it be fantastic to see a 2 kit set of HMS Shannon and USS Chesapeake in 1/150?
 
 
     My soap-box timer went off.   More "pressure"  later.
 
     Nino
  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 9:10 AM

Tanker - Builder

Hi Don ;

 You are so right there .years ago I was on a laker bent .I used a lot of two by fours and had lakers all over the house .Thank goodness my foster father could get me good wood . And yes , very simple lines for Great Ships all !

 Oh , and remember Don , 90% of my display fleet is scratchbuilt . Sometimes it just takes too long to get the info .

 

Just tried to order plans for Henry Ford II from Bearco.  Order wouldn't take :-(

Have emailed them to see if ordering problem or have they dropped plans.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 10:38 AM

Don Stauffer

 

Just tried to order plans for Henry Ford II from Bearco.  Order wouldn't take :-(

Have emailed them to see if ordering problem or have they dropped plans.

 

Don, 

      Regarding Bearco:

     I was interested in Great lake ships awhile back due to something Tanker-Builder said. I think I was going to be forced to order by check not credit card.  I did not follow-up.    Did you try the order by check process?

     Nino

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by LonCray on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 12:19 PM

Y'know, if I ever hit a big lottery (multiple millions), I plan to commission Trumpeter or Fujimi to do a styrene 1/350 Gerald Ford, then a 1/350 angle-deck Forrestal, then a 1/350 angle-deck Midway.  Because those are my holy grail ship models (nevermind that I don't have the skill to do them justice) and I couldn't spend a really big lottery quick enough anyway.  And then those models sitting on modeler's shelves would be my legacy.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:38 PM

armor 2.0

What you do is get a major amount of cash together and by revell for the amount of debt from hobbico and there you go you can manufacturer whatever you want. No problem.

 

 
Wait until they go bankrupt and then purchase them for pennies on the dollar.
  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 2:17 PM

Nino,

Believe you me, I would love to see Revell, which is really the last major US based model company left, issue new tool shop kits. Both historical and current. Why, because I know they could do a good job, and  I know it would be priced for at least one third less (here in the States) than anything out of the Far East. Their new tool aircraft kits prove that. 

Revell Germany and Airfix have been gracing us with new tool shop kits on occasion, but in subjects that represent those countries. I am still hoping that Airfix will backdate their 1/350 HMS Illustrious kit into Falklands War fit as HMS Invincible. And release some of the destroyer and frigate types that were down there as well. They are doing current RN types mostly. 

I hope (more of a dream really) that after Revell USA gets thru their bankruptcy, they can give us some neglected (in injection molding) Cold War USN ships in 1:350 such as a Knox Class FFG, and any of the various CGs and CGNs of that era as well. We have the carriers, BBs, Perry’s, Spruance‘s and Ticonderoga’s. I’m sure there are plenty of USN vets out there alive who build an occasional model that would love to see the ship(s) that they served on in an affordable kit that they could build.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, March 15, 2018 8:40 AM

Marcus McBean

 armor 2.0

What you do is get a major amount of cash together and by revell for the amount of debt from hobbico and there you go you can manufacturer whatever you want. No problem.

 
Wait until they go bankrupt and then purchase them for pennies on the dollar.
 

You have a bit over a week to get your finance package in order.  Hobbico's assets go up for auction on the 26th of this month

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-03-13/hobbico-hopes-find-buyer-auction-set-march-26.html

  • Member since
    February, 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Thursday, March 15, 2018 4:28 PM

Sad day for the folks at Hobbico, and for the hobby generally.

Hopefully the federal investigation into Hobbico's employee stocks goes well for those affected, and that no criminal charges are filed.

Thoughts and prayers of support go to all those affected.

We're running out of companies to make requests to.

 

It looks like in the US, Lindberg is the last of the original (1950s-ish) major plastic kit manufacturers standing.

 

Tags: Revell , hobbico
  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, March 16, 2018 6:54 AM

Nino

 

 
Don Stauffer

 

Just tried to order plans for Henry Ford II from Bearco.  Order wouldn't take :-(

Have emailed them to see if ordering problem or have they dropped plans.

 

 

 

Don, 

      Regarding Bearco:

     I was interested in Great lake ships awhile back due to something Tanker-Builder said. I think I was going to be forced to order by check not credit card.  I did not follow-up.    Did you try the order by check process?

     Nino

 

No, I contacted Bearco, and will see what they say.  In meantime, I decided to do the Col. Schoonmaker instead.  A friend gave me a paper model of that boat, and with the pictures I found online, I think I have enough to do my own drawings.  The hull looks a lot like a standard 600 footer, and I have a set of plans from my build of the Strathcona.  I can redraw them with the slightly larger length and width and I doubt anyone could tell it was not hull lines from the Schoonmaker.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Friday, March 16, 2018 2:57 PM

Now Don ;

 Now you know how I got a lot .Plus there was way back when some good pictures and plans in the Boy's Life mags for the Lakes region of the country . Two boats of dubious scale but decent plain drawn plans .

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, March 16, 2018 9:33 PM

A skipjack in 1/48; a hoy in 1/32, perhaps cutters in 1/72 or even larger.  Tow boats, pilot boats, fishing craft--how about a Buoy Tender?

Larger scale, simpler rigging, big but not too big--interesting subjects to engage the interests of modelers.  Not drive them off to cottage and aftermarket sources.

A 1/48 Hoy would be about a14" hull.  One mast and a top mast; gaff, boom, and maybe a topsail yard.  Less than an whole extra sprue would allow making into an Anchor Hoy.  A Water Hoy would just need barrels.  A Ballast Hoy would just need a derrick and a clamshell.  A Gun Hoy would need tie-down bolts for the gun carriages.

A cutter would be similar--used by just about everyone in the Leeward Isles--you could legitimately claim one was Dutch, another British, and even American, and only change the box art a bit.

A brig hull could be easily repurposed as a Snow; or a Brigantine.  Design the bulwarks right and the kit manufacturer could offer a mercahntman or an armed version.  Just a few changes and a Bomb sloop/brig would not be a stretch.

Just how many 1/48 U-Boats are going to bought, let alone built?  And we can't even get a brig or a hoy.

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