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USS Langley

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  • Member since
    June 2021
USS Langley
Posted by rocketman2000 on Friday, October 1, 2021 7:22 PM

I am getting set to start my build of the Trumpeter 1:350 Langley.  I have pretty much completed my research and read the instructions.  I am left with one unanswered question.  There are masts in the center of the flight deck.  I am assuming these are taken down before flight ops and stowed somewhere.  I see no place to stow them on the deck.  I assume there is a place for them somewhere on the hanger deck.  Or- are they just stored willy-nilly wherever they can find a place? I know not many of you would have served on her, but does anyone know where they stowed those masts?

I would like an opinion.  I want to display it during flight operations.  Ordinarily I prefer to build full-hull.  On my 1:700 Saratoga I showed flight ops and made it waterline, but in that scale I didn't mind not showing full hull.  But in 1:350  I'd like full hull.  Do people think it would look funny full hulled with flight ops?

I am going to be using the Trumpeter PE set.  I was surprised when I got the mail the day it arrived.  The package was heavy- several ounces- much heavier than I expected.  Turns out there are eight large sheets of PE.  This thing will weigh a ton, especially with a wood base, whether full hull or waterline.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Friday, October 1, 2021 10:35 PM

Can't help on mast question, but NavSource does show a picture of her attention anchor with a plane still aft, and getting ready to land.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Friday, October 1, 2021 10:56 PM

Granted, it was a bit before my time  .  .  . but it appears that the masts retract into the deck, periscope style. There is an obvious opening / hatch at the bottom of the mast. Similarly, the aircraft 'cageing' does the same per these shots;

 

"Why do I do this? Because the money's good, the scenery changes and they let me use explosives, okay?"

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, October 2, 2021 12:36 AM

I'm not surprised at the amount of PE. There was a large and complicated bridge structure forward, under the flight deck.

And that itself was a superstructure on the hull of the former coal tender (?).

It is strange that as such a trial donkey she ended up serving and being sunk in combat.

Did the kit come with Vought PE-7s?

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Saturday, October 2, 2021 3:32 PM

Rocketman,

I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

You certainly will have your work cut out for you!
All that delicate, figgitty PE work under the deck, would try my patience and abilities.

If you pull it off she'll be a masterpiece of intricate PE eye candy.

Good luck! (and please keep us updated)

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 3:41 PM

And I thought that the Wolverine was going to be a problem.

When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 4:18 PM

They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags.  Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea.  Think it's still a backup to today's light system.

LSO usually a rated pilot.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, October 2, 2021 4:22 PM

JoeSMG
Rocketman, I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

Ditto

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, October 2, 2021 6:02 PM

ikar01
When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

Like all straight deck carriers, she could only conduct one type of flight ops at a time. The deck would be spotted for launching or recovery. Conning the ship and signalling are more important from an island due to height. Flight control ops was only a small portion of the island structure on later carriers. The yellow jerseys directors on deck controlled the movement, launching, and recovery. Radios were minimally involved. It was loudspeakers for the deck crew and hand & arm along with flag and paddle signals to direct the aircraft .

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 6:34 PM

Okay, guys, I finally agree.  And I found pictures of models that were full hull with lots of planes on deck.  Engines not running but that was a little thing.  I think having a few engines running and one even moving will not shange the ascetics much.  I need to decide before I do much as I make a "build base" before I close up hull.  I use that when ship is done to match drill the display base.    Full hull- first step will be drilling holes for display pedestals.

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 6:45 PM

Ok.  So on this carrier with no island, where did they hide the bridge?

just curious.

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Saturday, October 2, 2021 7:16 PM

Bridge was under flight deck forward in the 1920's.

  • Member since
    May 2010
Posted by amphib on Sunday, October 3, 2021 5:45 AM

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Sunday, October 3, 2021 8:50 AM

amphib

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

 

Fortunately the kit supplies planes of the pre-war era.  I love the yellow wing planes, and will build it for the era of the Curtiss and Martin birds.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:32 PM

goldhammer88
They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags. Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea. Think it's still a backup to today's light system. LSO usually a rated pilot.

Before the "yellow wing" era; a/c radios were hghly uncommon.  Voice radios were not terribly common in the yellow-wing era either. 

Aviators came frst, so there was a cadre of expereinced fully-fledged aviators to be LSO, when that notion appeared as a way to get less-experienced fliers aboard. 

Signal flags were likely used to communicated to groups of a/c while flying (whch likely explains why there's a mast through the deck).

LSO are stll in use today.  And are in place for every landing.  Holding a "pickle" which can over-ride the landing approace light system.  Every landing is also graded, and the futures of the aviators and their standings in the squadrons are based on those grades.  Which are publicly posted.  IIRC you have to have 2000 hours to even be considered for LSO school.

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 3:46 PM

Yesterday I drilled holes through the hull for the mounting pedestals.  I cut two pedestels from 1/4 " acrylic rod.  I then glued wood with 17/64 into  holes on the bottom of the hull to reinforce the rods.  I then match drilled down through the hull into an MDF building base.  The rods are a nice press fit into both the hull and the base, so I will not glue them into place in the hull until later.  They will of course not be drilled into the working base.  As soon as I get the oak board for the display base I will match drill though those holes into the display base.  I also glued little wood tabs over the wood support blocks, so when I do insert the pedestals I will know when they are fully inserted, to make the pedestals equal length from the hull.

 

 

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 6:17 PM

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

 

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Thursday, October 7, 2021 9:06 AM

GMorrison

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

 

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Yep, found some new pics there that did not show up in Google Images.  And have the block drilled for pencil to draw boot line, but ran out of time to scribe in.

I did get a coat of Tamiya fine primer last night.  The kit called out Testors light gull gray.  I fortunately have two bottles of that in my stash.  But it looks a little dark to me.  The primer looks just right for what I suspect it looked like.  I know it is hard to tell anything from a black and white photograph, but I have been doing B&W photography for about seventy years, and feel I am pretty good at determining shades of gray from them, so I will be using the primer for hull and deckhouse color.  It may be a little on the warm side, but it will be hard to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

Bill

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Sunday, October 10, 2021 7:28 PM

Got the hull painted now.  Bottom is a Rustoleum satin red (not flat enough- thin coat of dullcoat over it).  Boot topping is Testors semi-gloss black, upper hull is the Tamiya primer.

 

 

All decks now in place.  Notice masking tape squares where girders will be glued to deck.  Will save a lot of scraping.  Still some details to quarterdeck needed before painting decks.

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, October 10, 2021 10:08 PM

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Monday, October 11, 2021 7:27 AM

ddp59

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

 

There is some deck sheer, but very little.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by LonCray on Monday, October 11, 2021 8:50 AM

Have you seen the build over on Model Shipwrights?  https://forums.kitmaker.net/t/seaplane-tender-uss-langley-av-3-1-350/11857/74  Some really impressive etchwork going on there.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, October 11, 2021 9:24 AM

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, October 11, 2021 11:49 AM

ikar01

...When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island...

Well, remember that she was an experiment, as were most of her contemporaries, the "firsts" around the world.  At that time, I think more objections were raised about having anything sticking up out of her flight deck, than about having a raised control platform on the flight deck.  I think the question of an island was effectively settled by her early operations, and the answer carried forward to the Ranger's design.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, October 11, 2021 11:51 AM

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:34 AM

Got the deck painted, and now doing PE (from the kit, not the aftermarket stuff yet) on foredeck and quarterdeck.

 

 

I have some concerns about the optional PE (the flight deck support girders).  It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all), some at critical angles.  I am not confident of getting those angles correct when I glue those girders together.

I am making a jig with a piece of white cardboard and scrap wood.  I have measured the locations where that structure glues to main deck, and transferred marks to that jig.  But I am not confident of my transfer of measurements alone.  I am going to build up that structure with the kit plastic pieces.  They look like they have well- designed joints.  Then, I will place that structure over the jig to correlate my measurements and the plastic structure.  The jig will then help me keep alignment when building up the PE girder work.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:52 AM

rocketman2000
It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all),

Sometimes I say things like that and wish I'd been listening.

I would suggest you rethink that.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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