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Questions about the USS United States

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:23 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by millard

How To Build Plastic Ship Models, I believe is out of print.Every once and while you can find it on E Bay
Rod


Confused [%-)] Oh my, no, out of print? Mine is looking "well used".

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Friday, January 23, 2004 10:03 PM
From Chapelle's History of th eAmerican Sailing Navy:

Constitution, President, and United Staes were 44 gun frigates, built form the same plans. So, they were sisterships. The ships were built in 3 different yards in 3 different ports, with construction overseen by three different captains. The captains had a lot of influence in the rigging and arming of the ships, so there were many minor differences in the way the ships were fitted out.
Congress, COnstellation, and CHesapeake were 38 gun frigates, and not sisters of the Constitution class.

-Bill

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:03 PM
How To Build Plastic Ship Models, I believe is out of print.Every once and while you can find it on E Bay
Rod
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:52 PM
The book you're looking for is

How to Build Plastic Ship Models by Les Wilkins

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:28 PM
thanks I'll look for it on the Kalmbach site next time I'm sluming around there, also Thanks to every one who helped on this subject

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:14 AM
There is an older Kalmbach book about building plastic ship models that focuses mainly on sailing ships. In it is a chapter where the author takes you step by step to convert the Revell 1/96 Constitution into the USS President. Very good reference for building plastic sailing ships.
  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:28 PM
Hey Big Jake;
I was wondering if the same details except the name is on both of their stern panels the bows I'm not to worried about but it's the stern I'm more concerned about, and is there a good website to look into these ships?

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:21 PM
Also to go along with everone is saying about the USS United States.She had a yellowish stripe on instead of the white you see on todays Constitution. and I believe that it was below the gun ports but I maybe wrong about that.
Rod
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:18 PM
Also to go along with everone is saying about the USS United States.She had a yellowish stripe on instead of the white you see on todays Constitution. and I believe that it was below the gun ports but I maybe wrong about that.
Rod
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:52 PM
Hi Cuda,

If you read the first few messages you will have your answer.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:43 PM
One more question, I got 2 1/96 scale Constitutions and I'm thinking on making the second one the USS President are the bow & stren details the same or are they different and where could one get the pix or drawings of them?, I'm getting ready to build a 1/120 scale USS United States but the details are different from the same scale Constitution and they are made from the same company

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 11:47 AM
Hey Jake;
Here's one of the sites I've checked on and they have comission dates for you too www.mikegrantdesign.com

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 11:42 AM
Thanks Jake & Scott ... learned some new things today.
Bruce
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 8:48 AM
Sounds to me the Navy website meant six frigates in commission at the time of the War of 1812
Fate
Consititution (In Boston)
President (Captured and taken to England, paid off and scrapped)
United States (Hulk was sunk during the Civil War)
Constellation (Scrapped in the 1853)
Chesapeak (Captured and taken to England, paid off and scrapped)
Essex (Captured and taken to England, paid off and scrapped in 1837)

The Essex was sponsored by the town of Salem Mass. She was a much smaller frigate and wreaked havoc on the British whaling industry in the Pacific before being captured.

Scott

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 9:07 PM
According to Naval tradition, when a ships keel is laid it is considered a ship and given a name remember the 6 ship were in different phases of constuction, but 3 were stopped after the treaty, so yes some feel that the ships were built. But only 3 were completed. The money was use elseware and probally to finish/outfit the other ships. USS President was about 1/4 built give or take, but construction was stopped after the treaty. The first "6" were to be the exact same calss but with very minor differances.

I have the Time-life seafarer series and I have the book entitled FRIGATES, (This is a great source of info, you may want to get a copy, it's out of production but you can find copies on ebay and do a search on bibliofind) I can copy the section for those who want. Here are a few web sites for you on the ships and others. The other ships such as the USS Essex was of a different class and not considered a "sister" Look at the bow of the Constellation and see the differances.

USS Constellation, check the Frigate namesake section
http://www.constellation.org/

USS Consitution
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/
http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/

also Check out the Naval Instute.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:56 PM
Jake:
I am following this thread with some interest because I may have provided a fellow modeler with wrong information when I told him "President" was a sister to Constitution. If this is an error I would like to know for sure so I can go fix my error ...
Regards,
Bruce
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:49 PM
Regarding Chesapeake, she is not all gone ... some of her beams and timbers are in a building (I believe a public house) in England, and are still readily identifiable as coming from the ship.

There was a news show about this recently as there is a move afoot in England to save and preserve the building because of this heritage ... perhaps some of our UK colleagues can shed more light.
Bruce
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 7:10 PM
Hey Jake;
But what about the USS President?, or USS Cheasapeake, the US Naval Musuem stated that there where 6 built
the USS United States, USS Constituion, USS President, USS Constellation, USS Congress, & USS Cheasapeake I'm not doubting you but the Navy's own Museum should have their records straight if only 3 of the 6 where built but in the history the USS Cheasapeake was captured and taken to England and destroyed, the Congress was dry docked and rendered unusable, as with the Constellation in late 1820's, the President was never mentioned of her fate, the United States was captured by the Confederates and renamed CSS Confederate States and sunk in Cheasapeake Bay, and of course we all know of the fate of the Constitution
where I got my information, give me sometime cause I'm not at my computer at this time but I'll get you the websites when I get back online at home

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
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Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 5:29 PM
HorseS**t, there wrong, give them my name, I'll straighten them out.
O.K. Enought already! here is the super short history of the ships, so the debate can stop! No I did not cut and paste!

It was because of the incidents of the Barbary Corsairs that the US Navy was born. This Navy began as a minuscule force amid many large, better-trained, equipped fighting ships. Within 10 years of its creation we would become a force to be reckoned with. By 1812 we were pitted against the world best fearsome maritime war machine, the Royal Navy. And we WHIPPED IT ASS, AND SENT IT HOME TO MAMA.

In 1786 Jefferson writing in Paris to a fellow minister John Adams, stated, “the best way to deal with these Pirates is “Through a medium of war”. This Jefferson acknowledged, would require ”a small maritime force”. That was the rub; of the 35 small ships built or purchased, we did not have a single ship ever sailing under a “Letter of Marques".

Under the Articles of Confederation the talk was largely academic, we basically had no budget to even buy a long boat much less a proper ship of the line. But with the adoption of the Constitution and the continually harassing Barbary outrages, the idea of a Navy took root. In 1793, Portugal, which was considered the guardian of the Straights of Gibraltar, gave up the ghost and the Corsairs had free rain over the Med. The British kept buying off the Corsairs, which increased their anger toward the “Cheapskate Americans” who would not pay a tribute! The nerve of us!

On March 27, 1794, The Senate having already approved, the House of Representatives passed an act authorizing the creation of the Navy. It was impossible for our Government to have the funds to build great ships of the line as Britain had, but we could build a smaller, faster and nimble ships. Fortunately, we did not have to look too far to find a builder, that man was Joshua Humphrey of the firm of the shipbuilding firm Wharton and Humphrey’s. He was appointed “Constructor or Master Builder” of a 44 gun ship to be built at the port of Philadelphia. He also came with his own novel ideas of what a Frigate should look like.

The term “Frigate” comes from a kind of galley that had sailed the Mediterranean in the late 1300's. Over the next few centuries the term evolved to mean a small and fast sailing vessel. The captains of the six vessels were already selected and sent to over see the construction of their vessels, each made demands to make slight changed to their ships. The shipbuilding was going at a good clip, and then shocking news came from Washington. A peace treaty was ratified with the Dey of Algiers, (read payoff) $642.500 of our tax dollars plus an annual lump payment of $21,600, (see congress has not changed it's been messed up since it's beginning) So Congress trying to save money cut back the original order of 6 ships to three. Think about it, the money had to come from somewhere. (Since they had not invented toilets yet, we could not be charged for $600.00 toilets seats!)

Here are the short, short dates of the ship launching:

USS United States....May 10, 1798 (44 guns) (damaged on launch, put in for refit next day!
USS Constellation....Sept. 7, 1797 (38 guns)
USS Constitution .....Oct. 21, 1798 (44guns) had hard time getting down the ways.

I could write a lot more but I'm tried. Anybody has any questions, please yell.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 11:32 AM
well in the Naval Museum's site they have the total history of the 6 Frigates that the new Congress funded and the USS Congress was built and fought in the war of 1812 the USS Congress that was popular was the one that was sunk by the CSS Virginia ( Merrimac) and she was a 50 gun Frigate the one that fought in the war of 1812 was a 38 gun Frigate

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
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  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 10:09 AM
Right about the Congress, never was built. The only reference I have about a model of the Congress is the steam powered frigate from the Civil War.

Also, I cannot find the Model Expo kits for either the Chesapeak or the Essex. (Doesn't help that the last time I ordered was from the Bliss Marine catalog which had them). Essex was another Frigate with an interesting history and nice lines.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, January 5, 2004 8:37 PM
If memory serves me correctly, the congress was cancled and was to be one of the original 6 frigates.

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, January 5, 2004 9:12 AM
Check Model Expo for wooden kits of the Constellation and Chesapeak since no plastic kits were ever made. I always loved the lines of the Chesapeak and wish there was a plastic kit of it. The Congress is another story, I cannot remember a kit of this class that is presently in production.

Scott

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Sunday, January 4, 2004 11:49 AM
Thanks Everyone,
I also went online and got some more info about the USS United States and there where 3 that where built the United States, Constitution, & President so I guess my Armada is going to increase by 2 I've got the Constitution now I've got to buy 2 for the rest of this class, has anyone heard of any company producing the Constellation, Chesapeake, Congress class of that era?

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 'Cuda

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Saturday, January 3, 2004 2:35 PM
To answer the questions on the bow decorations, again no detailed drawings but according to yards accounts a simple fiddle head design is correct, You can leave the bow decorations as is.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Saturday, January 3, 2004 11:31 AM
Just a quick note.

Anyone wanting to build a model of the carrier, Ronald Reagan, from a standard Nimitz class kit, understand that the islands are completely different. The Reagan's island is a totally new design and there is no mast aft the island. Only 3 arrestor cables too.

Mike F6F

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:54 AM
how about the bow decorations where they the same too?,

84 of 795 1/72 Aircraft Competed for Lackland's Airman Heritage Museum

Was a Hawg Jet Fixer, now I'm a FRED Fixer   

 'Cuda

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:18 PM
Both ships were 99.5% identicle You need to remove a bit of the stern decoration. However, there is very little to go one.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:18 PM
Yes you could. It would help to have references (as if I had to say that, lol).Laugh [(-D]
Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
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