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Revell Yacht America

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 2:31 PM

Thank you. Really great set of plans and instruction book.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, July 3, 2015 8:39 AM

jtilley

Re vacuform machines - Micromark offers a modern version; it's on sale right now for $135.00. I don't have one, but on the basis of the pictures, video, and instructions it looks like a nice piece of equipment. Here's the link: www.micromark.com/compact-vacuum-forming-machine,11244.html .

Wow! Doesn't look anything like the old Mattell unit from my youth, thanks for the link, John.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by waynec on Saturday, July 4, 2015 10:14 PM

GMorrison

I've lost the rudder. Indicative of a really bad year of moving, selling houses and finding a rental. Good thing I have the drawing. Sheesh!!

i think i still have my now wrecked one from my youth. i have a new kit too but, if you need the rudder, i will see if i have it on the wreck.

Никто не Забыт    (No one is Forgotten)
Ничто не Забыто  (Nothing is Forgotten)

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 13, 2015 11:16 AM

Thanks Wayne, I may take you up on the offer.

Just the other day I got an eBay alert:

"Revell Yacht America new $49.99 plus shipping."

If nothing else I was going to post the link for you all.

Sadly, the item is the Revell Beagle and the Scientific Yacht America.

Sad

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 13, 2015 11:22 AM

Here's the latest progress. I've just about finished the deck furniture. The only real remaining detail there are bars over the glass of the saloon skylight. They are little wood dowels, five per light. I just can't pull that off- they are 1/4" long and a no. 70 in diameter. Thinking little bits of brass wire would look shipshape.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, July 13, 2015 12:18 PM

That's really starting to look like a boat now. I'm excited to see her all decked out and rigged.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 13, 2015 12:22 PM

That skylight is the one that's now in the Mariners' Museum.

I had the job of finding replacements for some missing hinges on it. Had to have them made in a machine shop.

As I remember, the whole structure was made out of beautiful, varnished mahogany. I don't remember about the bars, but it sticks in my mind that they may have been brass. (That certainly wouldn't have been unusual.)

I'm confident that the skylight I worked on had been removed from the America. I can't claim to be sure that it was the original skylight. I wouldn't be the least surprised to find that ours was a replacement.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 13, 2015 1:00 PM

From the Mariners' Museum as John described.

This is identical to the one shown in a photograph on pg. 59 of Rousmaniere listed as "America at U.S. Naval Academy, June 1928", Mystic Seaport Museum 46.190.3.

It varies in small details from the Bluejacket drawings by Montgomery.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 13, 2015 1:09 PM

Speaking of Arthur Montgomery, the BJ plans indicate that all of the blocks are white.

I just finished buying Britannia blocks from BJ to round out the supply I needed. Next project I'll try some of the other sources you all suggest, except of course Elsie has hers in her box already.

White, surprises me. I have no problem with that. I guess it would help to know the practice of the day.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:15 AM

Biil,

She looks beautiful! Thanks for posting the progress, I am enjoying this immensely.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 8:46 AM

Your project is really turning out nice !! Cool

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 8:55 AM

It does indeed look terrific. I'll be interested to follow it to completion.

White-painted blocks actually seem to have been fairly common in non-naval vessels. The Cutty Sark has white blocks, and if I'm not mistaken the Charles W. Morgan does (or did on at least one of my visits.) The instructions for the MS Elsie say her blocks were originally varnished, but got painted white in the early twenties.

I'm not a fan of Model Shipways blocks. MS gets them from one of the HECEPOB companies. They're often sloppily cut and drilled. (On the other hand, MS deadeyes are quite nice.) My choice is Bluejacket for metal stropped blocks, Syren (i.e., Mr. Passaro) for unstropped blocks, and MS for deadeyes.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:13 AM

That photo from the Mariners' Museum does bring back memories. The half-model hanging on the wall in the background is interesting too. One of the engraved silver plates on it reads "Presented to Her Majesty Queen Victoria by George Steers."

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:53 AM

Thank you for the encouragement, gents.

I looked into the Elsie box, and concur on all points Dr. T.

The deadeyes are little beauties. They aren't stropped like my BJ ones which may be a good thing.

The blocks are not good, they are those little pearwood or ?? square chunks with a hole drilled through them that we are all used to.

The purchase of blocks for America has been a little adventure. There's a parts list in the back of the instruction book I have for the 1/48 scale model. One size of triple blocks several sizes of doubles and a number of sizes of singles. My working scale is 1/64. Easy enough to size down the parts required and that served to combine several categories of the smaller ones into one size.

The drawings don't show all of the blocks, nor would I expect them to, so I did end up buying blocks in two flights- one several years ago and another just last week.

By the way Bluejacket has EXCELLENT customer service.

Currently I'm trying to figure out where all the single sizes break. Triples no question, doubles I think I know.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, July 19, 2015 12:25 AM

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, July 19, 2015 12:40 AM

Bill,

Beautiful work. Is that the skylight form the kit with some brass rods added or did you scratch it?

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, July 19, 2015 11:03 AM

Thanks, Steve. I scratchbuilt all of the deck furniture, except for the little octagonal forward skylight, and sort of modified the capstan.

If you look at the first post I put up, there's a picture that shows the plastic deck with the furnture sawn off. It's pretty basic stuff and it's been worth replacing.

I did reuse the kit tiller too. It's pretty decent looking

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, July 19, 2015 12:22 PM

It was definitely worth it after seeing the kit skylight. As I said, very cool and very well done.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:15 PM

Pretty work, GM.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Sunday, December 13, 2015 3:11 AM

Wow, what a great model, GM. I could not stop reading this building report which I just recognized. Its very inspiring.

I was lucky enough to get a Revell kit America from ebay and while waiting for the box I was starting for any information I can get. Have got the Book you mentioned "the low black schooner yacht America" more or less by accident years ago and when I saw that there is such a big Revell kit existing maybe 6 months ago I started to look for it systematicly. Now I got it.

Your skylight is beatiful but I wondered: since you know the real one which looks quite a bit difference (2 parted per side instead of 3-parted, the finish without paint) why you do not try to have it closer to the original?

Anyway: the model is a masterpiece and I am looking forward to your rigging work

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Sunday, December 13, 2015 3:44 AM

Really enjoying your work so far on this Kit......Cheers Mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by kpnuts on Sunday, December 13, 2015 4:04 AM

Thanks for posting this, it's superbly done and im learning loads from it.

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:55 AM

This project is looking fantastic, its going to be hard press to tell its was concieved from the Revell kit. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 14, 2015 2:33 PM

Thank you for the nice comments.

 

It's time to get her out again, the next steps are the bowsprit rigging.

Marcus, to answer your question, she had at least two different skylights. The one in the Museum that John referred to and that I posted a picture of, was the last one.

The one I built, which pretty much matches the one in the kit, and the BJ drawings, was the race day one, as far as I know.

In between, she was sunk once, totally rebuilt once and re-rigged several times, as well as had a number of owners. If I had to guess, and maybe Dr. Tilley knows, that last one might be from the rebuild in 1875 by Donald McKay.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Monday, December 14, 2015 5:17 PM

What would be a good source of information for this yacht? I believe the kit is worth doing better research in different periods. There seem to be alot of photos of her later life?

The black low schooner I got already.

Which plans might be best / most accurate?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 14, 2015 5:33 PM

The Model Shipways kit has drawings by George Campbell. That has to be pretty reliable. The drawings with the BJ kit, which I have (the drawings not the kit) are by Arthur Montgomery and are very good. No sections or lines though.

Photos onboard are just about non existent, as far as I can tell, and paintings of course are all portraits.

Try finding a rear quarter view photo of a steam locomotive not attached to a train. Same problem, folks weren't thinking of us.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:23 AM

You are working according to the BlueJacket plans, wright? Does someone know about the differences versus the Shipway plans? .. and : where would one be able to get the Shipway plans alone?

GM, would you be able to post a photo of a section of the plans so that its visible which quality especially the deck planking or other details do have.

I am very much interested into the deck planks pattern.

Did you "copy" the lines of the waterways by the plans? .. or did you copy from the models sample??

Does any of the plans refere to the later changes? I am thinking about showing the ship as visible on photos from about 187x ff. She was in private hand, used as racing yacht, completly in a white hull and with a much larger amount on sails ...

yacht america 1887

And a final question: does anyone have information about that person George f. Campbell? That guy has a very high influence on modelship building. It seems to me he did plans of nearly each famous ship with sails ... How do we know where he got all his info from ... in "pre-internet"-times???

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:49 AM

First, I would have started from the Model Shipways or Blue Jacket kit, rather that remodel the Revell kit, if I were to know then what I know now.

But all in all it will be ok.

The planking of the deck is tough to discern. I used the width shown by BJ, but the spacing of the joints was my decision. I went 4/4, ie every fourth beam, every fourth plank.

As she was a very big boat, there wasn't whats called Yacht planking, where the planks follow the curve of the bulwarks and meet in the middle. John Tilley and I face a version of that in our Glouster schooners, I will be glad to follow his lead.

Buy the book The Low Black Schooner. Buy the BJ book and drawings.

As for Campbell, well Tilley can expand. The little I could add is that he measured actual ships and then drew them. That is a very hard thing to do and relies on an ability to be able to understand the logic under which an object was designed, in order to sort of fill in the blanks.

As for your plan, yes that's a very beautiful sailing boat. All kinds of sails that didn't exist on her when built. Steers showed a main topsail but she didn't have one in the race.

And about twenty seven feet ( maybe less) were added to her length which made her pretty much a new hull. I have never seen plans about that.

But imagine being at the helm in your magnificent photo. What power! You can see it in the picture.

 

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Thursday, January 28, 2016 5:53 AM

Oh yes.. that must be an extreeeeeeeem cooooool feeling. Your limit is far behind the horizon! And you are the master of fate of the ship and its crew!

You mean, the length of the ship we see here is not about 101 feet (30,1 m), but something about 127 feet (38 m)? .. That should be measurable in this photo maybe... with what would I best compare .. a mans average size maybe? Or the distance of the masts (if they did not change in between??) .. Do you have the distance available .. or any other distance I could measure here for comparision?

Edit: Just checked: the distance of the masts on deck level is about (very close) 1/3 from lenght in water line! .. does that give us any idea?

Yacht America 1887 - wikipedia

The replica of Yacht America is 139 foot (42 m) .. even longer ...

http://sdmaritime.org/visit/the-ships/america/ 

The book I got .. maybe I should also read it Hmm By galloping through the book I did not see any hint on the planking .. or more detailed plans. For the change in lenght I must look for. The idea of repesenting the Revell Kit as a 1887 yacht popped up, when I recently found those pictures .. but to increase the length would be something tooooo much for my beginner skills, I am affraid.

With BJ I tried to contact - but I am affraid they do not answer my mail right now.. Living in Germany seems to make issues with delievery and payment.. Hope it will be possible in our modern global world.

 

Concerning Campbell: ".. in order to fill in the blanks" .. that is what worries me.

I of course am far from and do not dare to really "judge" Mr. Campbells very extensive and beautiful works .. but what I learned the last years with ships from the age of sail: be careful with trusting experts because they are experts. ... being humans even they make mistakes. After all: even they haven´t been there.

And the bad thing: because of their expert-status its hard to argue or to question. So I am always interested in sources .. and try to compare my own observations with what someone presents to me.

I just wondered which ship Campbell seemed NOT to be interprating ;-) .. maybe so many kits are based on his work .. Revell´s Constitution, the Yacht America, the Cutty Sark .. each of them have Campbell plans available .. Did they maybe cooperate?

Heller in comparison seem to have their "models" from the AAMM .. maybe that´s the way to gain the plans for moulds for plastic (and wooden??) kits. To cooperate with capable institutions as the Smithonian (wasn´t Campbell working there?) or the AAMM?

 

 

EDIT 2:

I just did try to "measure" the lenght of this pictures ship (1887) in the water line - and used the height of that standing man in the bow of the ship. It seems that the water line is about 18 times the height of that man.. I assumed his foot to be in the level of the cross between anchor and the black line below the rail...

With this as reference .. assuming that the ship is 89 feet, the measurment of the man would be about 1,5 m .. a bit too small?

If I add 27 foot to the 89 my measurment: the man would be about 1,97 m (6 foot 49) .. which seems much closer to an average size of an adult american of about 1,8 m / 5 foot 10 inch. .. so you may be right: this ship is differing a lot from the original hull .. which should be represented by the Revell Kit ...

Of course my simple measuring with MS Powerpoint is of a limited presicion .. but for me it seems at least to be a good indicator for your statement.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, January 29, 2016 5:49 PM

Marcus, I don't think you need to worry about drawings by George Campbell.

He was a naval architect by training, an excellent draftsman, and a conscientious researcher. As I remember, he drew the plans for the Model Shipways Newsboy, Phantom, Rattlesnake, America - and probably a couple of others that I've forgotten. He also wrote books of his own (China Tea Clippers and The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay are the best known), and dabbled in marine painting. (This link may be of interest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/artists/george-f-campbell .) I never met him, but I can remember when he was in his prime. He was widely known as an immensely knowledgable man and a first-rate, congenial gentleman.

His most famous set of plans may be the ones for HMS Victory, for C. Nepean Longridge's book The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Mr. Campbell also did all the superb sketches and drawings in the book itself.

When Smithsonian Institution decided to commission a big model of the Constitution, it commissioned Mr. Campbell to draw the plans. (At that time Howard I. Chapelle was in charge of such projects at the Smithsonian; I imagine he was the one who picked Mr. Campbell.) Those drawings, of course, became the basis of the Revell 1/96 kit.

He was the naval architect in charge of the Cutty Sark restoration project in the early 1960s, and his plans of her are still available (one of the biggest bargains in ship modeling). Those drawings were published, if I remember right, in 1962 or thereabouts. The Revell 1/96 kit had been released in 1959. I don't think Mr. Campbell had anything to do with it - but I could be mistaken.

Historical research is an ongoing process; every year historians turn up new information about something. Mr. Campbell's Victory plans don't show the raised forecastle bulwarks, the third cheek knee, or various other details that are now thought to have been on the ship at Trafalgar. There seems to be a small industry of scholars and modelers dedicated to figuring out exactly what the Constitution looked like in 1812, and they've dredged up some interesting little details that Mr. Campbell's drawings don't show. From what I can gather, though, none of those revelations has been particularly dramatic. (Maybe the most visible one is the fact that she didn't have hinged gunport lids.) Mr. Campbell's drawings - and the Revell kit - look darned good to me in terms of accuracy. And I'm sure the recent (post-fire) restoration of the Cutty Sark has revealed some discrepancies with the Campbell drawings. But I'd be surprised if they amounted to much.

Any sensible researcher knows that the next generation of researchers is likely to come up with some material that he/she missed. That's how the field works. (If I were - heaven forbid - to build another model of the frigate Hancock, I'd use a different shade of red paint, leave off the bulwark pinrails, and...oh, never mind.)

The last time I saw Mr. Campbell's plans for the Model Shipways America was more than thirty years ago. I do remember studying them for some time, and finding them fascinating. I particularly remember a note about how the ship's sheer had changed over the years. I think you'd be quite safe in basing a model of the ship on those plans.

Finding them is another matter. I googled "Yacht America Plans," and came up with quite a few images (including what I'm sure is an illegal copy of the Bluejacked plans and instruction book). But all I could find about the Model Shipways kit was a few photos of the box contents and a finished model (which looked excellent).

I also think the Bluejacket plans are excellent. (I won't dignify the website by listing it here. Nic - I don't blame you for being irritated that such a thing is on the web.) I'd be interested to know how much difference there is between the Bluejacket and Model Shipways plans. My guess: scarcely any.

I think you're perfectly safe with either of those sets of drawings.

 

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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