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Artwox wood decks

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  • Member since
    March, 2014
Artwox wood decks
Posted by ships4ever on Friday, July 25, 2014 1:23 PM

I recently purchased an Artwox wood deck for the Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Dreadnought. I have generally been happy with it, (other than the fact that its thickness complicates attaching any part that attaches to a deck). I was wondering if it will be damaged by spraying clear flat on it when I am ready to overcoat the model at the end of construction. I know I have seen people comment that you can apply stain to it, but I was wondering if acrylic clear flat is also ok.

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, July 25, 2014 1:31 PM

Water-based acrylic paints & sealers may cause real wood decking products to warp.    You may want to look into a solvent-based sealer.  Seal both sides and all edges before installation

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, July 25, 2014 2:05 PM

But the problem is that the self adhesive makes sealing the back impossible.

It used to be this stuff came with scrap, like the punch outs for the barbettes.

You could practice on those.

Dullkote should work, but... its going to significantly darken it, not in a good way.

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Friday, July 25, 2014 2:46 PM

That has been my fear. Fortunately, I haven't gone too far in construction. I may just have too dullcote the painted plastic parts before I attach them to the model. I haven't done the hull yet, so when that is painted, I will dullcote it before I add the deck. All in all, this may be the first and last wood deck I use. Yes, it looks great, but the difficulties caused by its thickness and in attaching and sealing painted areas make it less than ideal.

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, July 25, 2014 2:51 PM

I personally don't care for the things. Be really careful to test fit it before you go and stick it down. Theres usually some interference in tight spots, like between the turrets. The usual reaction is to be in the process of sticking it down, and when that happens, press down on the buckled area with a blunt tool like the back of your knife handle.

But...it won't stay that way for long. It'll buckle back up and you'll be pretty upset because by then you'll be deep into sticking on the brass.

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Friday, July 25, 2014 3:06 PM

So far I have been fortunate, as I've only done the smaller decks. I'm sure the main deck is going to be the toughest, which is why I started small first, to get some experience. This has been a learning experience, and it is tending to turn me away from wood decks in the future. There may be the occasional exception, but if this is how things go at 1/350, I definitely would avoid 1/700, unless it was a carrier deck. Who knows, maybe it would work better on 1/200. I have the 1/200 Missouri, and perhaps I'll get a wood deck for it when I start building it.

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, July 25, 2014 3:25 PM

I used an Artwox deck on my conversion of the Tamiya 1/350 Missouri to the 1943 New Jersey. It's  been over a year with no buckling. It fit perfectly and it looks terrific. Good luck with yours!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Friday, July 25, 2014 3:53 PM

How did you handle the final dull coat?

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, July 25, 2014 4:48 PM

I applied dull coat before I installed the deck. I have had no problems with it at all.

Bill

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Friday, July 25, 2014 6:13 PM

I've been staring at the dry fitting of my Artwox wood deck to the main deck on my Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Dreadnought (1915) for about a week. I keep fiddling with the openings trying to get all the buckles out. I don't think it'll be possible to know for sure whether or not I've done a reasonable job until I actually peel off the plastic protective sheet from the adhesive - at that point it'll be too late to make corrections! I'm like a deer in the beam of headlights - I must bring myself to ACT! Big Smile

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, July 26, 2014 8:48 AM

I know the older wooden ships used to "sand" with stone those decks frequently- they were not varnished or finished with a clear coat.  When wood decks were applied over steel armor, were they still sanded frequently that way?  I understand on the old ships they were sanded to make them non-slip since painted or varnished surfaces were slippery when wet.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:09 AM
on the old "Tall" ships they swabbed "flooded" the deck holy stoned then swabbed again prior to applying sand to the deck. The holy stone smoothed out the deck to remove rough edges and splinters to prevent injuries since most sailors didn't wear shoes on deck except for the officers or senior NCO's.
Don Stauffer

I know the older wooden ships used to "sand" with stone those decks frequently- they were not varnished or finished with a clear coat.  When wood decks were applied over steel armor, were they still sanded frequently that way?  I understand on the old ships they were sanded to make them non-slip since painted or varnished surfaces were slippery when wet.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    June, 2013
Posted by RobGroot4 on Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:29 PM

The US Navy was still "holy stoning" decks in WWII.  Called holy stoning because the sailors were on their knees (in a praying position) and scrubbing the decks with a large porous stone.  I believe by WWII the Navy had added handles to those stones (much easier on the knees).  It's also why decks often looked like new wood as it prevented fading and drying out.

Groot

"Firing flares while dumping fuel may ruin your day" SH-60B NATOPS

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:58 PM

They are still doing that on the constitution and Constellation (the oldest active duty warships in the US Navy).

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:20 AM

One very small correction.  The Constitution is indeed a commissioned warship of the U.S. Navy.  The Constellation isn't. She was turned over by the Navy to a private organization in 1955. The Constitution has a genuine Navy crew, on the Navy payroll. Until 1975 she had a Navy hull number, IX-21.  

The Constellation is operated by civilians. It could be argued that she's not entitled to the "U.S.S." designation, but I don't think that one's worth pressing. The Navy has, of course, reused her name for an aircraft carrier.

The legal mechanics involved when the government turns over an artifact to a civilian entity are complicated.  I'm not sure, but I think the Navy has the legal right to reclaim the Constellation if the Navy ever concludes that the civilian custodians aren't treating her properly. I know there was some discussion back in the eighties or nineties, when the folks in Baltimore were trying to claim that she was actually the frigate launched in 1797 (rather than a sloop-of-war launched in the 1850s), the Navy might take her back.  That's unlikely to happen, because the Navy would have trouble finding somebody else with the means to operate and maintain her.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Monday, July 28, 2014 9:44 AM

I figured I would probably have to do that, so I've been doing my assembly work with that in mind. Certainly not the ideal way to do things, and it may be yet one more reason that I may not use wood decks again in the future. Thanks for the information, (it's always nice to be given confirmation that you're on the right track, even if that track has a train on it, barrelling toward you!).

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:03 AM

OK, I just thought I'd post a picture of how my Artwox wood decks turned out after I got off the dime Indifferent.

I mentioned that i was like a deer in headlights a few posts ago - I don't like that feeling so I went ahead and did the best I know how at the moment. There are some screw ups and some irritating alignment problems but I don't think it's so bad that I have to chuck it Big Smile.

At any rate, here is the image.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:29 AM

Looking good! I have all the decks on except the main deck, which I won't do until I have the hull painted. I primed and painted the deck and hull, following the same process that I used on the other decks. For me, the big advantage of the wood decks was avoiding having to mask or hand paint all the various deck fittings, and it seems that the wood deck adheres just fine to a painted surface. The hull is bugging me right now, as I had washed it, primed it, and all looked good. Then I put on the gray, and there was a large area near the bow that just turned white! When it dried, it was gray, but a bit glossy, so I'm wondering if I should just strip off the paint and start again after another cleaning, or try another coat. I've never seen this happen before, and I'm thinking it may be an area that still has some mold release. On the other hand, that didn't happen with the primer,so I may just take a chance and do another coat of gray. The big test will come when I mask the area to paint the hull bottom and bootstripe. If it's a mold release issue, the paint will come off when I remove the masking tape.

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:13 PM

My main deck is not attached to the hull yet. I just put it there to look at. I was going to go ahead and mask the hull for the boot stripe but since you mentioned it, I may want to seal the dark sea gray I've already painted on the upper part of the hull. I did use Tamiya primer prior to the dark gray so I'm not sure if I should bother to seal it or not but I sure don't want to have paint coming off with the masking tape!

What would you all suggest - just go ahead and mask, or seal the paint above the area where I'll be masking for the boot stripe? My inclination is to just mask it but ....

Please forgive the off topic post. I'll create my own thread (WIP) in the near future.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:18 PM

Sealing ie clear coating paint makes NO difference to the peeling issue. If you seal it and the paint didn't bond to the primer, you'll get sealer and paint on the tape. If the tape is going to peel off the paint, the deed is done. Test somewhere you can fix. Or, really de-tack the tape, put it on loosely, take it off just as fast as you can.

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:16 PM

It sounds like something went wrong with your grey paint to cause that white/glossy spot. I'm wondering if another coat, super-carefully stirred and thinned, may solve the problem.

I think I my be misunderstanding some of what you're describing. When you talk about sealing the paint, are you saying you're going to spray over the paint with a clear finish? If so, why? Assuming the paint is already flat, it shouldn't need to have anything sprayed on top of it. Clear top coats don't make paint stick better to the plastic. High-quality modern hobby paints are formulated to stick directly to styrene. The only thing a primer really accomplishes is to provide a consistent color, so the colored coat doesn't have to be as thick. (Styrene isn't like metal, which often needs a layer of primer that sticks to the metal - and that the finish paint can stick to.)

I'm a big fan of acrylics, but the modeler needs to remember one big characteristic of them. They dry from the outside in. A coat of acrylic paint may be dry to the touch a minute or two after it's applied, but it won't actually grab the plastic for a day or so. (Enamels work the other way - they grab the plastic right away, and take some time to dry on the surface.)

I've never worked much with Tamiya paints, but I've read lots of complaints about them. My own favorite is Polyscale. Now that it's been discontinued, I'm trying to get used to Vallejo.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December, 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:26 PM

John,

Thanks for the info. I'll not seal the paint - I'll just let it cure for a few more days before I do more masking and painting.

I used Polly Scale acrylics for the three ships I've built in the last 4 years but I like the way Tamiya spays through my airbrush. I guess I'll just have to see how it all works out.

I have enough Polly Scale Caboose and Oxide Red paint left to mix up what I think the hull red should look like on my Dreadnought but I always have problems figuring out how to thin that paint for my airbrush. I may give it a go with PS anyway.

Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by ships4ever on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 4:47 PM

I usually put a coat of clear flat over the paint to protect it. Maybe it's overkill, maybe it's unnecessary, or maybe I got into that habit because it has to be done to seal decals. As for the paint issue, I'm going to give it another thinned coat and keep my fingers crossed.

On the bench: 1/350 Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought; 1/350 Academy USS Reuben James FFG-57

 

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Friday, August 01, 2014 11:04 PM

I got hold of a ArtWox  wood deck for the 1/700 scale Fujimi Yamato done up in a sort of black color over to wood how would I go about painting it in wood color paint mainly MM enamel wood?

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    June, 2015
Posted by spaceghost on Monday, June 01, 2015 3:28 PM

Sounds like an idea worth trying warshipguy. I ruined my Pontos teak deck for my Tamiya Circa 1991 1/350 Missouri by following their lackluster instructions. I took the added precaution of wiping down the deck with alcohol prior to installing for better adhesion. Pontos recommends a thin coat of lacquer clear coat to seal and preserve the post deck installation. DON'T do it! Mine buckled badly and I put such a thin layer of clear lacquer out of fear to begin with. Your idea of a dull coat application to the kit deck prior to laying down the wooden deck seems like the better way to go. Did you rough up the kit decks with steel wool or other means prior to laying down your wooden deck?

  • Member since
    February, 2010
Posted by paulhelfrich on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 8:58 PM

I'm working with an ArtWox wood deck right now.  I'm applying it early in the build and  adding the superstructure, turrets, etc on top of it, following my usual "bottom up/inside out" assembly plan.   

I was worried when I saw the comment about DullCote, so I just took a portion of scrap and really hosed it down with DullCote, way more than I would use on the actual model.  The good news is, once dry, I saw no darkening or other change to the appearance of the wood grain.   So my plan's going to be to apply DullCote as one of the very final steps in the build, as usual, and not worry about it getting on to the wood.  No need to really focus it there anyway, of course, as the natural finish of the wood is already dull. 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Sunday, January 06, 2019 12:40 PM

Hi Paul!

     I have followed your work for many years. Terrific stuff.  Glad to see you back here. Your  Racing Yawl inspired me to build one as my first sailing ship with rigging. (I placed the kits main mast a bit lower in the hull though.) I absolutely love all your models.  You have as many built as most of us still have in the "Stash". Thanks for the inspirations.

Back to Decks...

The Dulcote usually referred to is Testors. It does a nice job.  No darkening noticed.  But, I have used several other brands and Yep, those have left a terrible darkening of the wood. These were Acrylic sealers. Two in particular: ModPodge matte and something called "Plaid" Clear acrylic sealer.  I know the acrylics will cause these thin wood veneer decks to warp but with the deck firmly glued no warping occurred just a darker deck. Still learning.

      Nino

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