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Homage to Old Ironsides

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  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Friday, March 15, 2019 10:15 AM

Yes, still working out how to make them work on the lower yards without butchering them too much as they will be the kit pieces that I reinforced with dowelling before I glued the 2 halves together

Dan

  • Member since
    March, 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Friday, March 15, 2019 8:58 AM

AOS,

Since you are making your own yards, will you be going with parrals?

Bob

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current build:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Thursday, March 14, 2019 5:11 PM

So I decided to take a little break from detailing the spar deck and face the inevitable, the yards, spars studding sail booms, jibs, and spankers.

As I have stated, I reinforced the lower yards and lower masts with dowel inserts so I plan on using them, the rest, for the most part not so much, simply too wimpy.

I will be using Blue Jackets superb template and turning pretty much everything from above the upper masts including the yards and studding sail booms, and adding the skys'l yard Revell omits from its kit using cherry doweling, Thanks Professor Tilley for the advise.

This will take a while but it will be a nice break from the work on the ship itself especially since it is still too cold here to spray the weathering solution on the copper hull, which must be done before I start rigging the jibs.

I took all the Revell pieces, labeled them and marked them according to the BJ plans, the ones I know will be subject to breakage will replaced with cherrywood pieces

I've already turned the jibs and spritsail yard as you can see the scale is quite different from between the 2

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 9:45 PM

Evan! I am so happy you are not dead! (ht Indiana Jones Big Smile)
I appreciate the props, as you can see, while your work has been a serious influence, my desire to represent a less than pristine, well weathered ship will differ from a lot of modelers. Your build, (and Arnie60, where oh where is he?) really helped me to this point.

Regarding the bowsprit, I have managed to break EVERY SINGLE ONE on the 1/96 kits I've built, Cutty Sark must be a record, at least 5 times. my modeling buddy who shares my hobby shop with me suggested the steel wire insert, I came up with the brass banding, I just wish it wasn't so out of scale now, As far as the spread on the strikers, the Corne painting does seem to agree with the spread in Marquardt's AOS, not quite as wide but certainly more accurate the the current iteration. my problem will be the fair leads due to the brass banding.

I know your locating the ship's bell just aft of the Charlie Noble works with the resin boats from Blue Jacket, however, seeing as how I am using the Revell pieces which considerably crowd that deck space, locating it just forward of the helm makes sense, especially since it seems to me the bell, used to signal the crew beyond the bo's'n's pipe, would logically be located near the helm.

I am particularly happy with the base I built, not too dark, and not overlong like the BJ piece, all in all with my time constraints, (my wife is loving the free air travel retiree thingy) I am not too disappointed with my progress, the broken bowsprit occupied WAAAY to much time. I should be starting the Jibs next week and then the real fun begins, thanks to you and Arnie I am not using the kit deadeyes, far too pathetic for the effort I've put in.

I know I speak for everyone here when I say we are looking forward to you getting back to posting your progress.

Happy modeling!

Dan

  • Member since
    June, 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 9:16 PM

Hello Dan!

Great work on your build... A wonderful project to follow.  Glad to see you back at it and posting progress.  I've been fumbling around with my build in the background, but haven't gotten everything re-organized enough to start posting again.  Hopefully I can take a cue from you and Bob and get my blog in forward motion.  I'm glad you've found inspiration from my project and others on this forum - it is a fantastic environment for fostering discussion and triggering new ideas.  I especially like to see other folks enjoying the research and micro-decisions involved in scratch building... regardless of the extent.

Thanks for the insight regarding the delicate Dolphin-Striker and other spars.  I may soon be grappling with those issues myself and it is good to see some solutions posted.  I agree that the sources vary a bit on how the Dolphin Striker should be represented, but it is consistent that it has a "double" pronged set up.  That seems to be a general characteristic of American Navy ships in that period. Probably not quite as widely spread as the Revell kit has it if the Corne paintings and the Hull model are followed.

I'll be actively following your progress.

Cheers,

Evan

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 6:55 PM

BTW, I can't seem to find any photos of your build, gotta a link?

Dan

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 6:47 PM

Thanks again Bob, My thoughts on building any model historically accurate for the era it is supposed to represent is a little different from most I think. I grew up in Pasadena, CA building hot rod and famous race car models in the 60's and 70's sticking like glue to the original look, same with aircraft and modern warships (Enterprise, Arizona, New Jersey etc). This was because there is no doubt with these models what they looked like, because for the most part, they are still amongst us and contemporary with us.

With historic ships like Constitution, Cutty Sark, Victory and so on, it is far more subjective, especially I think Constitution, as she has gone through many phases in her life, methinks the recieving ship era forever changed the way she would look in the future.

That said, I think attempts to depict during whichever period we choose to, is somewhat open to interpretation based on documents, paintings, and written descriptions of the time. In Force9's case I think he is coming as close to an accurate representation of her in 1812 as I have seen and it is clearly his intent. Myself, I want to represent that era but not to the point I can't get a little creative, for example my belaying pins are not going to be blackened, I like the brass look, which will darken naturally over time, the same with my oversized out of scale eyebolts from Jotika. Plus I am not overly concerned with the decking reflecting a lighter colored heart of yellow pine, I prefer a somewhat more weathered and splotchy look, typically a working naval vessel would present a little cleaner and more highly maintained, but I am going for the look of a working vessel returned from months at sea where maintainance was done but months at sea still took their toll. I mentioned before that if everyone goes for the exact same look, we lose individual interpretations, where's the fun in that?

Dan

  • Member since
    March, 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 3:22 PM

Dan,

Coincidences abound.  I also used to build OOB up until I started scratch building and modifying parts for pinball machines.  Spent a lot of time dreaming up ways to light up things as well - hence my desire to light up the Connie.  I also decided to spend a considerable amount of time doing more (any) research this time.  And while my build may not end up being entirely correct for the 1812 period, it will be something I am already quite proud of.  It will enjoy a prime location on the end of our bar (it's a big bar).  I plan on adding a few more nautical elements to give it some flair (sextant, compass, ship's bell, etc.).  I easily have probably 200 hours into this so far, and I haven't cleared the gun deck or touched a mast or spar yet either.  But I am in no hurry.  A job worth doing well takes time.

My wife and I will be married 38 years this June.  And while I don't have pilot's status, my wife has flown well over a million miles, and I do enjoy getting the perks of her upgrade status.  We plan on spending a couple of weeks in Europe this summer thanks to her miles.

I will be watching your progress.  Glad to see you back building.

Bob

 

 

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current build:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 12:36 PM

Thanks Bob! This is my 4th 1/96 ship and dolphin strikers and the thin wimpy little top gallants are absolutely the bane of these kits, I've repaired and splinted them on Cutty Sark so much it's downright embarrassing, so while out of scale now I am reasonably confident it won't break so easily. I wish I had taken more photos of the process, the wire runs all the way to just under where the jib comes through and terminates at the bottom just above the sheave holes. At that point there is serious weakness due to the sheave holes through the strikers so I banded it with brass and filled the seams with Milliput. It came ok but not with the same thin elegance of the unique look of the original, oh well Huh?
Anatomy of a Ship has been roundly critisized on this and other threads however I do use it for reference quite a bit. I think the look of the dolphin striker in the Revell kit and the diagrams in AOS as well as the Corne painting clearly reflect a completely different look from today's version in Boston. Additonally Marquardt lists woldings as part of the structural bracing of the lower masts in addition to iron hoops which makes sense to me as well as adding a detail I don't recall seeing on other models. Plus the eyebolts for guy wires for the Charlie Noble, which Evan likewise included on his magnificent build. Methinks I will research the woldings more before I actually add them but I definately am leaning that direction.
This site as well as a few others, have really opened up a whole new world to modelers like myself, who heretofore, at least when it came to sailing ships, buillt OOB. I've built dozens of cars, modern warships, and aircraft that were modified, including the famous diorama of the Revell B-17, but the skill level of the cats here, particularly Even and Arnie60, just blows me away and I find myself pushing my skill level because of it.
I have been at this kit just over 4 years, 392 logged hours, a lot of it just research, and I've yet to mount a mast or start rigging anything except the guns. It has been more fulfilling than any model I've ever built. I retired from my 2nd career at Delta Airlines last year and thought I would have more time for this build, Alas! When you are empty nesters and you and your bride of 37 years have lifetime free flight benefits anywhere in the world, it is amazing how quickly time runs away from you!


Happy Modeling,

Dan

  • Member since
    March, 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 11:41 PM

AOS,

First, you are doing a marvelous job.  Coincidence had our two posts next to each other for a day or so.  I also have read through Evan's blog several times and "copied" quite a few of his ideas as well.  You are a bit ahead of my build, as I am still working on finishing out the gun deck cannon rigging. 

I have a few concerns over the dolphin strikers as well.  My first attempt at this (35 years ago) resulted in breaking those twice.  My bigger concern is that if you look at the plans from the museum and also those in the "Anatomy of the ship" book, the angle and arrangement for the strikers is different than the one provided.  I plan on scratch building one with the proper angles and also "beefing it up" a bit.  Liked your idea of running a stiff wire in there.  Also thinking about brass square stock.  Tougher to braze metal together, but I won't be breaking them!

Again, fine workmanship.  I shall be following along.

Bob (Luvspinball)

 

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current build:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 5:26 PM

I have to admit Evan has been a huge influence, it is further evident in the ship's bell, I merely copied what he built. There seems to be no super clear consensus regarding its location in 1812, but methinks close proximity to the helm and binnacles makes the most sense, especially for my purposes as I am rigging my ship with the boats placed according to the Revell plans which makes positioning the bell aft of the Charlie Noble impossible, plus there is ample room to mount it on the coming of the hatch just forward of the helm and binnacles



  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 5:07 PM

I really liked the way Evan's capstan he built for the spar deck turned out however I did think the base was a little too small diameter-wise even though it does match the Hull model. I decided to have a base equal in size to the drum cap, with a taper toward the whelps. I used Evan's method for creating the drum heads however I used pine for the whelps and cherry for the center spindle, and finished them with a diluted leather.

I also put a cross-wise sheet of styrene down and scribed planking in to represent a re-enforced base to handle the stresses the decking here was no doubt subjected to, for the bars, at this scale I simply snipped some of my spare boat oars down and likewise applied the diluted leather, my wont is to represent a ship months at sea and therefore a little more weathered, repainted, weathered again. I hope I am achieving this.

Professor Tilley was correct, cherrywood is the only way to go!

Stark contrast between the kit piece, the Blue Jacket piece (anyone need one?) and the wood/styrene one that will go on the ship


I filed the whelps down once the were in place, just seemed easier, next was diluted leather with an eye to weathering, same for the rods, and mount to the re-enforced deck



  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 4:35 PM

Having followed Evan (Force9) with great interest, I decided his approach to the Charlie Noble and capstan, as the kit provided ones are woefully inadequate. The Charlie Noble was a a breeze in terms of construction, getting it look aged and a little worse for wear involved a heavy, almost sticky flat black, tying off the guy wires at this scale was a pain, a single malt night for sure!



  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 3:52 PM

The time finally arrived to replace the temporary 2x4 base I had been using due to the fact that soon the jib and flying jib will be installed and it would be too difficult to replace the base with those pieces in place. Blue Jacket's base is ridiculously long and since woodworking is one of my great passions, I decided to make my own base out of white oak that will only stretch the length of the hull.

2 light coats of Dark Walnut stain and 2 coats of satin finish urethane and I think it will work. BTW, the dining room table it is sitting on is also my creation Big Smile

The Blue Jacket pedestals needed to be trimmed down to fit, fortunately my Revell kit had the bosses to mount it to a pedestal molded in so it wasn't too challenging


Final assemby looks pretty good, will have to remove the base one more time however, in order to spray the copper down with a weathering solution, as well as weather the rest of the hull

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 1:55 PM

Still attempting to catch up on this blog, prior to my bowsprit disaster, I had spent some time modifying the existing boats as they will be the ones I use, including some ribbing and keel board

Added tiller assembly and some other details


  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Monday, March 04, 2019 6:03 PM

Hello all, it's been 2 years since my last post, but I have been nibbling away at my Constitution nevertheless. Suffered 2 bad breaks on the bloody dolphin striker, the second one so bad it actually broke the bowsprit as well. If it weren't for Dave, aka lmbsk sending me a spare he had, I would have been in dutch big time, thanks Dave!
I wound up having to cut the damage bowsprit off just past the boards and using a cherrywood dowel as an internal splint, splice the replacement piece on, after adding more material to the end in order to pin the martingale in for added strength.

Next I bent a piece of steel wire to match the dolphin striker, hollowed out a bed for it, and layed a piece of .020 styrene over the repair, note the piece of doweling extending past the bowsprit to ensure a good attachment point for the matringale.

 

No photo description available.

Next was to trim down the sandwiched piece and prepare for paint


Next was brass reinforcement of the lower dolphin strikers, out of scale now but breakage is now not a serious issue

 
This was way more work than it should have been. But in the end, there is nothing worse than breaking these delicate parts hanging out there for the whole world to bump against and reduce you to tears at the thought of having to repair!
  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Thursday, February 16, 2017 6:42 PM

A question, the kit lower masts, are all cast with iron hoops, however Marquardt's Anatomy of the Ship, page 93 clearly shows in the mast drawings and lists rope wooldings, as well as mast hoops. I  really like the look of the wooldings and am curious what the concensus is regarding this subject, I'm turning all other masts from cherry but the lowers will be the kit pieces. I can't find a definitive answer on whether wooldings were used circa 1812, any opinions? Professor Tilley, I'm looking at you.

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Friday, June 03, 2016 3:25 PM

Hello all, been awhile, shoulder surgery and other "events" have prohibited me from posting lately.

I thought long and hard about what to do regarding the rather flimsy channels, ultimately going with a combination of Evan's and Randy's suggestion. I used the original channels but reinforced the underside with .80 sheet styrene, and further reinforcement where it attaches to the hull. Evan had suggested notching rather that drilling holes for the deadeyes and the logic of it dictated I follow said suggestion

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Monday, February 22, 2016 5:15 PM

Hello folks,

Hope this post finds you all well. Me, nursing a very serious shoulder injury, not looking forward to the surgery coming up (way too old for the job I have, very physical, need to leave it to the yunguns, but I digress), but it may give me some time to get back to Connie. At any rate, I modified my channels based loosely on Evan's work except I reinforced the entire underside using .60 Evergreen and took his advice on notching rather than drilling holes for the deadeyes, it is clearly the way to go. Additionally I added ribbing to the boats as well as a keel and still have the rudders and oarlocks to add. Pics to follow shortly.

Now I will start prep to step the lower masts and and bowsprit. However, and this question is for Evan or Arnie, I am going to be using the Blue Jacket deadeyes but going with the boxwood blocks by Syren.com and basing the rigging on Blue Jackets plans. The problem I have is the plans as they arrived from BJ do not include a breakdown of the various blocks, single, double, triple, hearts, open and closed, needed for the build and it seems you Evan mentioned your plans had just such a list. If so, would you mind sharing that info? I will be using 1/8 blocks instead of 3/16 as the larger size will allow slight reaming to accept thicker cordage, and as is evident from my ring bolts, slight variations in scale do not bother me much.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to when you will begin posting more pics of your progress, it's been a while.

Dan

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 2:44 PM

Hmm, they're showing on my machine, I wonder if the pixels are out of your machines range

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:34 AM

I only got the last one too

 

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, October 20, 2015 10:59 PM

Dan,

It is good to see you back and building again. However, maybe it is just my iPad, but nome of the pictures you posted except the last one came through.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Monday, October 19, 2015 5:15 PM

 Hello all, hope this post finds everyone well.

As I had previously mentioned spring summer and early fall are mountain biking and Moab rock crawling season, so work on Connie has been on hiatus. However, prior to her being put up for the season I had completed some work by the end of April beginning of May I failed to post pics of, so here they are.

These were test fits of the Carronades and finally rigging of them as well as fitting the belaying pins. I did seriously consider the rigging Arnie added but lacked the time to make such a huge effort. I did sieze the cordage and like how they came out, more authentic in detail. Anyway here's what I accomplished late last spring, hoping to start up on her sometime this winter but I broke my rock crawler pretty bad and so will be spending time building my class 5 Blazer as well, looking forward to picking Evan's and Arnie's brain on the rigging to come.

Rigged and belaying pins installed

With rope coils

Repaired fore fife rail with brass pins

Siezed rope detail, wish the cordage wasn't quite as fuzzy

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:14 AM

It was pretty typical for commercial ships after 1900 to never take down sail, and in fact rarely furl it. Photographs of the clippers bear this out, With minimal crews, simply slacking the clew lines saved them time and money aloft, not to mention the risk of industrial accidents. These ships could not sail upwind. But that's off topic.

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Friday, April 10, 2015 7:14 PM

JT..your furling technique mimics my own.  I found a long time ago that using 50% or less sail material in your furl will result in a far more protypical representations.  Furling inward and making your furl random but balanced.  I also use paper..crumpled till it is as soft as Egyptian cotton.  This aids in representing a sail that was furled wet and retaining her wrinkles(though they are extremely small/soft)  McNarry's  sails are as authentic as I could imagine...loose, fluffy, full of life.

Sometimes I will, cut the sail to size...detail with fine pencil..edging, joint lines and the like...then crumple the &*$% out of it.  Reposition add rigging lines...and there you go.  Pretty convincing sails.

This technique is not for everyone and it works best on smaller models....though I have used it on 1/96 scale.

Rob

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, April 10, 2015 3:58 PM

Dan,

Well, in order: clewlines and buntlines pretty much take care of themselves when the sail is furled. My custom is to rig them to the clews and bunts of the sail, rig the sail to the yard, rig the yard to the mast, and haul the clewlines and buntlines taut - in that order. The lines (don't forget the leechlines, too) furl the sail, ready for the gaskets.

In case you haven't already read it, here's a link to my personal way of making and rigging furled sails: cs.finescale.com/.../33775.aspx . I think that technique would work fine on a big Constitution. Just remember that in order to work right, the sails themselves need to be a lot shallower - probably not much more than 50% the depth they would be if they were set. Lots of people make furled sail "bundles" far too thick.

There are lots of styles of ship modeling. I've seen plenty of good models with shiny - or not so shiny - brass fittings. You do know, though, that they won't stay shiny for long unless you coat them with clear lacquer or something similar. If you leave them bare, they'll turn either black, brown, or green, depending on the precise composition of the wire. That's likely to happen before you get the model finished.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Friday, April 10, 2015 3:47 PM

Thanks John, I was hoping you would weigh in one the cordage, I guess I didn't realize the significance of the difference between hawser and cable, now that I realize the difference I wish I could remember where I read about a company that can make it to order, wish I had bookmarked the page GRRR!

I had asked you on Evan's blog about sheet, clew and bunt lines and how I should go about rigging these with the furled sails, I will paste those questions here and hope you can point me in the right direction. I love rigging and firmly believe it putting it all in place if possible so to do it correctly with furled sails is very important to the look I am attempting, here are the questions I posed on Evans blog:

On my last project, Cutty Sark, I did the whole furled sails thing in a manner I'm sure you disapprove of as they are wadded up in the yards and very prominent, instead of rolled neatly into the yards and I incorrectly shrouded the jibs up on the sheet lines rather than running them down to the bowsprit. Now that I know how they should be furled, and I will be furling them in the yards, I am curious what your take is on how to present the sheet, clew, and bunt lines and other running rigging used to work the yards and sails. On Cutty Sark I actually tied sheet lines to the sails and "hoisted" them, thus presenting them as I thought they would look with the sails furled. It came out OK but clearly not correct in how I presented the sails.

Revell's instructions provide for no sails with instruction on how various sheet and clew lines were tied off when the salis aren't in place. As I agree with you that furled sails look great I will be furling sails again (this time correctly), I foresee an issue with how to rig these lines as it will be very difficult to tie them to the silk span I will be using to represent the sails being as they will be rolled tightly onto the yards. I am months away from this part of the project however I would like your opinion on how I might accomplish this given the limitation of not actually "hoisting" the sails to the yards via the sheet and clew lines so as to ponder my options.

Also curious about your take on my nice shiny eyebolts  Wink

Dan

  • Member since
    May, 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, April 10, 2015 3:16 PM

Regarding cordage -

It's been a long time since I've rigged a good-sized ship model. The most recent three (more years ago than I care to acknowledge) I rigged with silk thread, which in those days was relatively easy to find at good sewing stores. I could only find two sizes of it; I made most of the rope I used on the actual models with my primitive "rope-making machine." That was an extremely crude contraption I made out of parts from an old Erector set. It was in two parts, the "whorls" and the "spinners." I clamped each of them to a sawhorse, so I could put them at any distance apart for longer or shorter ropes. (For the topgallant backstays of the Soleil Royal, as I remember, I had to put the sawhorses on the opposite sides of our basement. As rope is spun up it gets shorter.)

One great advantage of making your own rope is that you can make it in just about any size you want. A real ship had rope in dozens of diameters. I won't claim I made that many different sizes for the Soleil Royal, Bounty, or Hancock, but I made at least a dozen - black and brown.)

Employment, marriage, stepkids, and illness kept me away from large ship modeling projects for a long time. I did build the Model Shipways pilot schooner Phantom a few years ago. (At that time Model Expo was selling the kit with a resin hull. I really liked it.) The rigging of that ship doesn't amount to much. I used Model Shipways' "cotton-poly mix," which I liked. It really does look like rope (though a little shiny), and it's held up well since I finished the model.

Nowadays it's harder to find silk thread. (I've googled "real silk thread," and it can be bought, all right, but I haven't had occasion to order any.)

My current model, a Gloucester fishing schooner, is going to need quite a bit of rigging (though not as much as a full-rigged ship). I've got quite a stock of Model Shipways stuff (bought when Model Expo put it on sale for ridiculously low prices), and some from Cottage Industries. Both look more than acceptable to me.

But I'm really interested in the newly-available cotton/linen line from Syren Ship Model Company. In the photos it looks superb, and I've read lots of positive comments on it here in the Forum. I'm going to order some in a few minutes.

Only one thing bothers me about the Syren line. In the pictures it appears that most of the sizes are cable-laid (i.e., spun up left handed). If you're really into such things, that matters. (Hold a piece of the line vertically, and look at the strands. If they go up to the right, they're hawser-laid. If they go up to the left they're cable- laid. Here's a link to a good picture: http://www.sweethaven02.com/BldgConst/Bldg02/fig0302.jpg ) .Nowadays almost all rope that's sold for ship and boat rigging is hawser-laid. But in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and early nineteenth centuries much of the standing rigging of ships was cable-laid, while the lighter standing rigging lines and all the running rigging was hawser-laid. (There was a third kind. Shroud-laid rope consisted of three strands of cable-laid line spun up right-handed. Three cable-laid strands making a hawser-laid finished product.

If you make your own rope, you can control that - simply by cranking in opposite direction. In this picture of the Hancock you can see that most of the standing rigging is cable-laid and the running rigging is hawser-laid: http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r650/jtilley1/38890018_zps8e2d375f.jpg .

How much does this matter? That, as always, is up to the individual modeler. When I learned (from R.C. Anderson and C.N. Longridge) how to make my own rope, I got fascinated by it, and had a lot of fun with it. (I admit I got sick and tired of turning those little cranks, but Cincinnati Reds radio broadcasts helped a great deal.)

I'm going to ask Mr. Passaro if his rope-making machine can spin lines in both directions. It would be great if both hawser-and cable-laid rope were conveniently available. All the rigging of my current project needs to be hawser-laid. But I've got a late-eighteenth-century brig next in line....

Later: Just ordered seven packages of Syren line - along with a query as to whether Mr. Passaro can supply both hawser-laid and cable-laid. Will be back when it comes, which I'm sure will be quite soon.

Still later: Mr. Passaro got back to me with an answer to my question within a couple of hours. The two smallest sizes of line he offers are hawser-laid; the larger ones are all cable-laid. That makes the smaller ones appropriate for running rigging and the larger ones for standing rigging. If you need bigger running rigging (for jeers, halyards, etc.) it shouldn't be difficult to spin the smaller sizes up into bigger hawser-laid rope.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February, 2015
  • From: UT
Posted by ageofsail on Friday, April 10, 2015 1:38 PM

Thanks Evan, that means alot coming from you. When this kit arrived, the box was more beat up than advertised and there was some damage which, along with following yours and Arnie's builds, really inspired me to think "outside the box" on this kit. The fore fife rail assembly was virtually shattered, to the point where only 4 of the stanchions were salvageable and so I rebuilt the whole thing including adding a pinrail on the fore crossrail and replacing the broken pinrails. I've already lamented the poor condition the decks were in, just happy I was able to make them somewhat serviceable.

    

The main fiferail had broken feet and so I flush mounted it to the deck, and the monkey rail was in 3 pieces so I built a new one

I also had at least 4 other broken pinrails so I decided to replace all of them, as well as adding 2 more. They are a work in progress but I did build them out of .80 Evergreen and planed down the belaying pin surfaces, this will allow me to use 1/4" belaying pins from Blue Jacket as well as have a substantial surface area at the attach point to the bulwarks and MUCH bigger tabs to go into the holes I drilled in the .40 reinforced and thickened  bulwarks.

As you can see, I still have a fair amount of touch up and clean up work to do and I will post pictures of my take on adding strength to the pinrails later but I suppose my main point is Evan, without discovering this forum I never would have considered even this rudimentary amount of modification, the fact that now I am even planning on using non OOB deadeyes, shroud/ratlines and turned wood mastops and yards is giving my wife a headache Wink.

On a side note, I am curious what you think about leaving the eyebolts un-blackened? Personally I like the look. As you can see I ordered the next size up, slightly out of scale but much easier to work with. I also bought the smaller size and will use some with rings attached as well

Dan

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