Revell 1:83 Mayflower

In fact, glass making is a pretty interesting subject, as there are still centuries old methods involved. Leadlights have been around at least 1000 years, since the Byzantines.

Those glass pieces were made by first creating a flat glass disc and pressing it flat with a tool. Then the edges were scored and broken off to yield the final little shape.

Big flat pieces of glass are now made with rollers. A plate glass piece is made by flowing molten glass onto a metal table and rolling it flat. Float glass is made by flowing the molten glass onto a lake of molten metal.

In addition to glass, leadlights can be alabaster, oyster, horn or other waterproof, translucent materials.

The lead mullions are called cames.

I also would think that any such window would probably have a stout wood lid somewhere nearby, for storms.

Those cheap little Chinese battery powered "tea lights" are great. Of course getting one in and out of your ship wouldn't be worth the trouble. But there's a few builds around here where LED's are being used. It would certainly put pay to the effort you've invested to make these windows.

I think you nailed the window part.  Looks really good!

what you have done so far look's great., I'm not up to resin yet but jtilley's idea I can do.,I have this in my stash ., and will be following your build , with keen interest

Say Alan, thank you.  Maybe now I can move beyond this section of the ship!

Steve5, thank you for the positive feedback.  Yes, stay tuned.  There will be more to come.

Thanks for the info, JT.  Good stuff!

Steve,

Your solution to the windows is far better than my suggestion. Nicely done! So what are you planning on working on next on this beauty?

Steve

Hey there Steve…  Thanks for the kind words and encouragement!

What’s next you ask?  I am moving towards paint.  I have just finished filling and sanding the join along the keel.  I have also repaired the bowsprit.  I accidentally snapped that off while I was working on other parts of the ship. The kit has a fair amount of flash and ejector pin marks to repair as well.  Along with all that, I am (again) test-fitting the decks, forecastle assembly, and poop deck assembly.  What’s the saying?  Measure twice, cut once?

I am still waffling on what I can get away with not assembling before paint.  I really want to install the main deck later because that would make things much easier for painting.  I see some challenges with that. You probably recall that the main deck gets positioned between locator pins that are molded into the inner portions of the hull.  It’s a good design in that it really secures the main deck tightly, and it helps keep the piece positioned correctly.  In fact, it holds it so tight I barely see the need to glue it in. The downside is that it can be a bear to get the piece in there.  I literally have to spread the upper two halves of the hull to slip the deck between those locators. If I do this after paint, I can imagine paint being scraped off in the process.

One thought that I had is maybe I should remove the upper locator pins. That would solve the whole problem. If I did that, then the main deck would just lay in there with no muss, no fuss. The downside is that I would lose that nice structural integrity. I would then have to get a really strong glue bond with the deck because I think that the masts play into the need for a solid base. That is probably why they designed it as such with pins that lock the main deck in place. So, more thought and testing is needed. Please chime in if you have any thoughts on this.

Below:  You can see the locating pins that I am talking about. The opposite side has them as well.

Below: The main deck captured in the hull.

At this point I should mention something for anyone looking to build this kit. The instructions show assembling portions of the upper decks to the main deck, then this sub-assembly is to be installed as you glue the two halves of the ship’s hull together. I didn’t do it that way for two reasons. One of them being my preference for the paint/assembly order already mentioned. Secondly, it is almost impossible to know if you are gluing things in their ideal position without having the main deck installed. I have found through testing that I will have to dry fit several components together in order to find the best alignment, and then I can glue the pieces one at a time. And that is with the main deck positioned in the hull. Otherwise, it’s a guessing game when you are positioning the decks and bulkheads. A little misalignment here or there throws it all off, and you could end up with gaps, misaligned bulkheads, and even the sub-assembly not fitting into the hull. Just my perspective though. Maybe others had no trouble. From what I see, the alignment is critical and I prefer to error on the side of caution.

BTW... I got my hands on a flickering tea lamp. I think that it will look awesome. That will be a fun side-project that I will post in this WIP.

Those pins being visible after assembly would bug me. I am sure you can get the deck secured maybe add some continuous gluing surface along the underside edges.

I also think you are right about assembling the whole thing, re. later alignment. It's kind of funny- I had a complete "physical memory" flash while reading that, of a whole bunch of plastic parts held together by semi-set tube glue; trying to mush the whole thing around to fit and get rubber bands around it. This would have been in 1969!

I sometimes use Elmers to put stuff together, since it allows for adjustment and dries clear. Then go back and spot superglue once everything is right.

The pins won't show after assembly. They'll be hidden under the upper decks.

One trick that might help: run a loop of strong thread through the grating on the main deck. If you need to pull the deck up during assembly, just pull on the thread.

Good luck. It's going to be a terrific model.

Hey Bill--

you have me chuckling over here.  That was very descriptive.  Do you know what is crazy? I built this kit when I was younger and it would have been around the same time frame as when you built it.  I tried following the instructions at that time and what a mess.  In the end, I never finished it.  I lost interest when I tried to figure out the rigging.  

I hear you about them being visible.  I will have to look closer, but I think that they are positioned as such that they are hidden within bulkhead walls.  Thanks for mentioning that though.  I need to make sure.  

That sounds like a good idea about adding a gluing surface.  I probably would have tried the lazy route but by adding additional gluing surface it should alleviate my fears, and solve several problems at the same time. Good tip!  

Steve

Hey JT--

yet another great tip.  That is a really good idea.  It would help while I am trying to position the thing because there isn't much to grab onto. I could see the thing slipping sideways, right into a big glob of glue!

Thanks!

Steve

jtilley

The pins won't show after assembly. They'll be hidden under the upper decks.

One trick that might help: run a loop of strong thread through the grating on the main deck. If you need to pull the deck up during assembly, just pull on the thread.

Good luck. It's going to be a terrific model.

 

You're probably right about the pins- Revell certainly knew what they were doing (sigh).

Bakster, does your model have figures?

GM--yes to the figures. 

Steve,

Actually I did a different sequence when building, but considering where you are at now, most of it won't matter. However, before you get too far on the deck, make sure you get your anchor hawser laid through both hawser holes before glueing in the deck. Otherwise, you'll have to try using a needle and hawser line and threading it through.....you can ask how I know this! After that, tie the ends loosely together.

You might want to also paint the interior, the deck and grates before you glue the deck in, again, because it will be easier before than after.

After the main deck goes in, you'll also want to rig the main sheet pieces before the bulkheads and other decks go in. This includes the kevels, eyebolts, and single blocks. Tie off the single block to the eyebolt on both the port and starboard side first. Then tie off one end of about 18" to 20" with tan running rigging line to the kevel and then run it through the block and then out the sheave. Tie them loosely together under the hull for rigging later.

You might also want to rig the various belaying points along the midship rails and the ship's boat, again, because of the close quarters you will working with.

Something else you might want to do when you glue the quarterdeck on is to make sure the mizzenmast goes into the insertion point on the main deck before the glues dries, again, you can ask why I know this!

If you want, PM me with your address and I'll send you a copy of the older 1960's instructions which are far superior than the latter 1970's international pictorial instructions that you are working with now.

Or you can just use this link to download your own copy. Just make sure your virus filters are up to date just in case. You shouldn't have any issues but after working as long as I have in IT, it is always better to be safe than sorry.

I know John already recommended the Anatomy of the Ship book, Susan Constant and Bill Morrison recommended the other books that are very worthwhile if you want to continue the awesome work you have already completed. You can find most if not all in used condition. They are all worth it and it is a great excuse to purchase books! 

Steve

http://soubory.radekshipmodels.cz/plany/MayfloverRevell.pdf

Later edit: You will find that the older Revell rigging instructions are fairly good, those guys not only did amazing molds on their sailing ships but also did some decent research for the rigging. Although the larger English Man O' War/Spanish Gallion was researched at one of the Hollywood studio's prop library but that wasn't until the latter 70's again. John has all the great dirt on that from Graham's (?) book on Revell and personal experience when he worked at a local hobby shop.

thank's for those instructions steve , I've filed them away for future use

Slass making is fascinating stuff.  The old "bullseye" windows were part of that tradition.  The best glass was blown.  A bubble was formed, then spun out into a disc.    The form was tipped off the straw (the blowing tube), and the hole allowed to melt over.

The disc was cut at its circumference; the flat part was used to make big panes; the stem end was made into smaller , leaving only the bullseye.  As a left over, the bullseye was inexpensive, so it could be set in caning to make an insexpensive window

Float glass waited until rollers could be machined to a precision and dimension large enough.  Fater that, it was keeping enough molten tin on hand to let the sheets float on the level liquid surface.

Those tea lights are pretty spiffy.  The outside diameter is dictated by the typical size of the wax versions.  So, they are laregly empty on the inside.  They are inexpensive enough to buy in bulk and disassemble a few for lighting purposes.

Steve5,

You are very welcome. Radek has a great repository of older and new sailing ship instructions available on his site for free. There are plastic as well as some wooden kit instructions so that you can cross reference them. Radek is a great enthusiast of model sailing ship building as well as a gentleman. 

As I noted earlier, no matter who it is, always have your antivirus and firewall up to date when you download something off the net, because you never know. I know that I sound like a Mom or Dad sending their kids off to college......

Steve

The instructions Docidle kindly provided bring up an interesting point. Revell made two versions of the Mayflower. The original one was about sixteen inches long, and on a scale somewhere around 1/110 or 1/128. It was arguably the best sailing ship kit Revell ever made. Docidle's instructions are from that kit. (I've got one in my stash.)

Then a few years later Revell brought out another Mayflower as part of its "Quick Build" series. That series also included a Constitution, Cutty Sark, and Thermopylae, all of which were shrunken, simplified versions of the company's 1/96 kits. Then there was the yacht America, which was a completely new kit. And a "Quick Build" Mayflower, which was on about 1/83 scale. (All the kits in the series fit in the same size box.) That's the one Bakster is working on.

The remarkable thing about that larger "Quick Build" kit was that it clearly was pantographed up from the smaller kit. (The wood grain was identical.) And the parts breakdown was identical. The biggest difference was that the larger kit, as I remember, didn't include all the blocks and other rigging fittings that the smaller one did.

So Docidle's instructions should work fine for Bakster's kit. But those instructions, unless I'm mistaken, show a good deal more rigging than the big kit's do. The rigging diagrams in the small kit, in fact, were just about the best Revell ever did. They would be a fine guide for rigging either kit.

Those old instructions are a pleasant reminder of the Goode Olde Dayes. Note that the text (in English only) is literate and understandable, the source of the plans for the kit is identified, and all the parts are named - and have clear verbal instructions on how to put them together.

The original issue of the small kit had those awful plastic-coated thread "preformed ratlines." I imagine Bakster's kit came with the molded styrene ones, which are even worse. It's not for me to make any decisions for Bakster, but a model of that quality really deserves shrouds and ratlines that are rigged like the real thing.

CapnMac makes a good point. I agree that tea lights would look interesting. Another route would be using fiber optic lights and run them through your pedestals and down through your wooden base to your power source. The light from them might be more in scale.

I might also suggest using a silver paint pen, very fine nib, to paint the window framing. I've used them on my Mayflower as well as the Revell Santa Maria. I found that I had much better control than with a brush.

John as usual, is very correct. I have both the original kit and newest rebox of the smaller scale. I also have the larger version and yes, it does not have the blocks and unfortunately has the molded plastic shroud/ratline monstrosities. I have purchased wooden blocks, pumps and will purchase Syren's rigging line when I can get around and building the larger version. If anyone would like the various sizes of the blocks etc, I would be happy to provide them.

Just an idea,

Steve

Holy cats, Steve.  These instructions are night and day better.  I downloaded them to my iPad. I want to cry!  They look so good I want to frame them and then hang it up on a wall! It would be a shrine to what once was.  

Why have model makers gone so bad when it comes to the instructions.  Just a few days ago I was test fitting some of the beak assembly and like with most everything on the newer instructions, they lack detail. In most cases what they show are nothing but blurry blobs. I probably wasted a half hour looking at the box art, or searching out photos on the net to see exactly how the parts should line up.  It's crazy!  It should not be this difficult. The old instructions are extremely clear, excellent illustrations, and like JT said, they give clear verbiage guiding you along, and they even supply the given names for each part!  My gosh. I am sorry to admit that when you guys throw out some terms, I have to go to the net, or look at other reference materials to figure it out, because the newer instructions give nothing. Sorry to drone on but I am just amazed at how things have changed in terms of kit instructions. I had the same situation with my first build back.  That build was an Avenger, and the intuctions were the same.  They were blurry blobs, with little detail. Ok I am done now.

Thanks for the tips.  You had mentioned some of this in an earlier PM, but now I can understand what you are talking about.  I will try to follow your advice.  

Thanks about the books too. I had done a little research into them since their first mention, but that is as far as it went. I need to get off my tail on that.

As always, you guys are awesome!

Steve

JT, as always, you are a wealth of information. Thanks for the encouragement too!

Yes, the kit did come with the awful plastic shrouds and ratlines. I can not imagine using them. When I get that far, I will be reaching out to you guys for advice on how to do it right!

In the meantime though, I am open to advice from you good folks on what I should buy, and in what sizes.  I believe it was mentioned earlier on that ME is a good source.  I think sooner than later, I need to get better string (ropes), than what came in the kit. 

Steve.. That is good advice about the windows. I had a different idea on how to paint them, but I like your idea better.  It should be much easier.

Fibre optic is a good thought worth checking. I had similar concerns about the scale of the light output. I was thinking that I could tone down the tea light by masking some of the bulb. The only thing I have not figured out is scaling the bulb into something that could fit the scale of a lantern or candle. I don't think I have an answer for that. I am kind of going in the direction of well, how far do I want to take this?  For the most part it won't be seen, and my primary goal is the light effect. If there was a way though, you know that I would do it.

CapnMac, thanks for the info about glass making.  That is good stuff.

I agree about the tea lights.  I managed to find an image of a disassembled tea light.  The bulb appeared to be mounted to a small circuit board.  It looks simple enough to convert into something useable for this project.  It really is pretty cool how they designed the light to flicker, just like a candle. It really does look like one.

Once I get that far in disassembling it, I will post images.

Thanks again...

When you go to setting up your candle, at a minimum paint the inside an opaque coat.

or build a little box out of black paper. Otherwise there's the possibility of glowing plastic or light leaks.

Good point, GM.  Thank you sir.

Ok I can't resist.  I mentioned the issue that I had with the beakhead. Part 37 was not lining up the way that I assumed it had to. I had to assume because it really does not show.  So, I was not sure if it was a fit issue, or if my assumption was wrong. In the end, it was a fit issue.

Below:  The new instructions.

Below: The old instructions.  In this illustration it clearly shows how part 37 aligns to the hull.  It only make it clearer as you progress through the build.  In another illustration not shown here, it clearly shows how the whole assembly should look.  Amazing...

Below:  Look at the wealth of information provided.  Every part is clearly named.  Wow!

What a difference. The newer ones have that "Revell of Germany" look. No words.

What a recipe for success, the old ones.

Amen, GM.  Amen.

Steve,

I'm glad you found the instructions helpful already. It is amazing and sad to see what Revell's instructions used to be like and what they are now. Revell, are you listening? Other great sets of older instructions are for the Golden Hind, Charles W Morgan, USS Constitution, HMS Bounty and the Flying Cloud. (I know I am missing some). All these were the smaller sets but if you look at the 1/96 Constitution and Cutty Sark instructions, they were good also. I learned my way around a sailing ship by studying those instructions since they named the parts. Made me sound downright salty at a young age!

Did you want me to list the blocks and sizes that I have picked up so far for my larger Mayflower kit? I did purchase Model Expo line originally but I plan on using Syren line once I get around to building this kit.

Steve