Revell 1:83 Mayflower

GM, that sounds like my kind of book.  BTW--last night I watched a program on the Smithsonian channel that was pretty good, Moby ***, Heart of a Whale.  Those were "interesting" times. If you get a chance to see the program, it was worth the watch.

Oh boy.. the naughty filter got me again.  I guess its time for some soap.

No, it's time for Friday afternoon in the ship forum.

Tripping that particular nannybot wire makes it official...

"Ration that man some Torpedo Juice!"

GM,

Torpedo juice aside, while the original releases of these kits occured from the plant in Venice, CA, RoG has continued with many of these questionable kits.  By the way, I forgot to include the 1/96 USS Constitution (excellent kit) with its fictional sister kit USS United States. 

Now, I believe that I will go get a flask of that "torpedo juice"!

Bill

Too funny. Ok then.  Pizza is in the oven, and it's time to make Torpedo Juice.

I am working on my shopping list and I have a question.  What is the difference in these upper and lower deadeyes from Bluejacket? They look identical to each other in the picture. Why an upper and lower? I am not sure of what I am missing here.

The lower deadeyes have small grooves molded in on the lower side of each hole, to reduce the chafe on the lanyard. On each upper deadeye the inboard side of one hole doesn't have the groove. That hole takes the end of the lanyard, which has a big stopper knot in it.

It's a mighty small detail, especially on such a small scale. I think it speaks well of Bluejacket that the company cares about such things. And there's no difference in the price; might as well do it right.

I think BJ's little sketch there shows one of each.

John, what does the other end of the lanyard do? Is it seized to a shroud, or itself?

I've seen several versions of how to secure the end of a deadeye lanyard. One is to "expend it in half hitches" around the seized shroud just above the upper deadeye. Another is to seize the lanyard back on itself. Personally, a couple of turns around the seized shroud does it fine for me.

The sketches in the BJ website show inboard and outboard views of one lower deadeye and one upper.

JT, this is yet another interesting nuance regarding a ships rigging.

I agree that it does speak well about Bluejacket. Thanks for leading me down this path. As you can see your earlier advice about Bluejacket deadeyes did not fall on deaf ears. I will move forward buying the upper and lower deadeyes as well. 

I think that I have collected enough data to purchase what I need for the short term. I have decided to wait on the blocks until I get nearer to that process. I still need to get a clearer picture on what sizes to get, and the types. I have been looking at the Model Shipways instructions and unlike the Revell Kit, they reference more detail with regard to different size blocks, even different types. I need to take the time to "try" and translate all that and scale the sizes down for my odd sized build. That will take time for me and I am itching to get some bench-time in. I have been holding off working on the chainplates until I get the deadeyes. I decided that before I start notching, I need to make sure in how the deadeyes are going to fit.

I'm sure I'm just not following, but do buy your blocks from Syren or BJ, not MS.

I've got plenty of MS blocks, of the somewhat more modern type, that are pretty much garbage.

GM, I was looking to purchase the blocks through Syren.

BTW...Friday's torpedo juice was just what the Dr ordered. I have to tell you that your post was the perfect message to set the tone for the weekend. It was a hellacious week for me and that post seemed to instantly put things in perspective. I had seen that movie for the first time just within the last six months. It was such an odd scene and it made me laugh. You brought that back to life. Thanks for that.

Now... let's see if nannybot and her broomstick catches hellacious.

She must be still sleeping.  Too much torpedo juice for her last night.

Likewise, and I'm glad for that.

The PBS show, I will look for. I'm not familiar with it.

The big movie "In the Heart of the Sea" released last Friday. Based on the book by Nate Philbrick. I haven't seen it yet but am looking forward to doing so. Judging from the reviews it will probably on Comcast pretty soon.

I'm pretty interested in whaling, although I find the industry disgusting on it's face, however important it was to the US economic growth. One of my aunts married a Webster, who was a fourteenth generation Nantucket man. So through marriage I'm related to Coffins, Comstocks, Websters, Macys, and Nate Philbrick. I've spent some time on the island, where you just can't help tripping over history, and cousins.

One of my other favorite plastic ship model kits is the Charles W. Morgan. But that comes with caveats, and a non recommendation. It's on a pretty small scale, which makes rigging difficult and a little frustrating as the model out of the box is a fully rigged ship.

Then there's that. Rather than me hijack this thread and blather endlessly, see other threads on the subject. Someday I'll maybe take on a wooden kit and build a bark.

Your choice of this kit was a good one. Others like it are also very nice projects, look at the Imai, Zvezda, Revell, Airfix and on pre-18th Century subjects. Thinking "ship" doesn't mean always thinking "big".

Wow, your family history is really interesting. How cool is that! I am sure you could share many stories. Maybe in time you will.  I would love to hear about it.

I totally agree with you about the whaling industry.  I did not know much about the subject until I had seen the show. It was interesting to learn that they processed the blubber into oil onboard the ships. If they taught that in history class, I missed it. It was also interesting to learn that the whales seemed to rebel against the slaughter. They cited several cases where whales began ramming the ships. What a time it was.

Funny that you should mention the movie "In in the Heart of the Sea." That is on the top of my list to see. In fact, I plan to see it this week.

Thanks about the kit and about what other project to look at.  I will look into those!

Steve,

I am not sure if it was covered previously but in my opinion I would get the 5/32" dead eyes for your lower shrouds and the 1/8" dead eyes for your upper shrouds since they are the smallest sizes available from BJ.

For your blocks, I would probably go with 2mm and 3mm blocks. The 4mm might be a tad too large. Again, this is just my opinion.

Steve

Hey Steve, it is great to hear from you. I do not believe this was discussed, so your post is timely. I am glad to see that what I came up with matches what you suggested on the deadeyes. Also, I was not sure what to do about the upper shrouds since 1/8" seemed a little big. You have confirmed for me that the 1/8" is my best option

Thanks about the blocks.  I was thinking the 2mm or 3mm as well. It is good to hear you confirm because I am always wondering what I might be missing. What I am not sure of yet is am I good with just the single sheave blocks? Do you recall a need for double sheave blocks? This was the further research that I needed to do most.

Thanks again!

Steve

Syren sells blocks sized 2mm, 3/32", 1/8", etc. So far as I know the only place to buy other metric sizes is Model Expo, whose blocks, especially in the smaller sizes...well, don't come up to the standard of Syren or Bluejacket.

Bakster, I hope you don't take this wrong, but I really feel kind of obligated to tell you that there's a little yellow light flashing in my head. If I understand the situation right, you've never rigged a ship model before. The Mayflower isn't the worst kit to start with, but you're going to find out that setting up shrouds with individual deadeyes and lanyards is an extremely frustrating exercise. And the blocks you're talking about are small - really small. They make the plastic ones in the kit look enormous. And those little tiny topmasts and topsail yards are very fragile. (And making new ones out of wood isn't as easy as it looks.)

I'm certainly not suggesting that you give up, but I do think it might be a good idea to turn down the ambition meter just a bit. Some rigging lines - especially running rigging lines - are more important, and more prominent, than others. If I were in your shoes I'd consider leaving the spars bare, and including only the most important running rigging: braces, lifts, halyards, and a few others. On that little tiny model I think you'll find that's more than enough to keep you busy - and to produce a handsome finished product.

I don't want to sound snobby or curmudgeonly, but I've seen so many sailing ship models get started on this forum and then get abandoned (usually after the builder lays out quite a few sheckels on blocks and deadeyes that he never uses) that, like I said, that little yellow light starts blinking. The usual problem is that the builder gets an image in his head of a beautiful, highly detailed model and then gets frustrated because his just isn't turning out that way.

I know none of this is any of my business, but I sure wouldn't want to see this model get added to that list.

Steve, I would agree with John, and add my assurances that you will be very happy with your model. The work done so far is very good. It's not a small thing (well, pun intended) but the size of your model is tiny. If you were to use a single line of the appropriate size and color, cleanly knotted and strung for the major elements of the rigging, it will look great.

An 1/8" block, esp. a double, will be so small as to be very hard to hold. Many a good model on this scale or close has been made using blobs of glue instead of blocks.

Many modelers here lately have had good builds with the Black Swan, Black Pearl etc. series. Or the Lindberg pirate ship that is a French frigate, name escapes me right now. La Gloire?

Just be sure not to frustrate yourself.

Hi Guys.  I totally understand where you are coming from.  I have had reservations about this as well.  However, I am a slow as you go modeler, and I am not afraid of intricate work. In fact, I love intricate work if tasked to do it. I do one build at a time, and if they take a year or more to complete, that works for me. I am sure it will be much longer than that considering the concerns that you mention, but I am going for it. I can always change course later if things get too tough.

No worries about me chucking the build. The only way I see myself doing that is if I have a catastrophic problem with paint, my cat flings it against the wall smashing it, or any other plastic crunching situations.  It would have to be a situtation requiring a do-over. In those cases, I would walk.

My resolve is great...

Thanks guys..

Hey Morrison--is he whistling taps?   Signaling my demise?

That is a joke by the way.  The way my day is going I am afraid it could be taken otherwise!

Thank you sir...

Joke taken - though I'm not sure it would be possible to blow Taps on a bosun's pipe.

I just took another look at the instructions for the Model Shipways Mayflower kit. Mr. Passaro rigged his prototype model with no sails, and the basic running rigging. If you follow those instructions to the letter (making the obvious adjustments for the change of scale), I think you'll find that's more than enough rigging. My suggestion is to leave such things as sails, clewlines, leechlines, tacks, bowlines, and martlets for a future - and larger-scale - project.

"Set normal underway watch".

Actually JT, using the Model Shipways instructions is what I was planning to do, and to stay within those bounds. As you stated, it is modeled for no sails. The directions are pretty clear, and so I think that gives me my best shot at this. 

As they say, proof is in the pudding. It's all talk until this ship is built. Time will tell. 

I'll stop there.

I was doing some surfing tonight and I found this great shot.  If I have the terminology correct, it is the fore deadeye chainplate.

From the bottom up-

Chainplate link.

Chainplate, which is in fact a chain.

Channel, which is mounted against the

Channel Wale.

(and that's a bit of redundancy, as the term "channel" was a contraction of "channel wale" itself).

Lower deadeye (stropped).

Lanyard. Which is ended with half hitches (a lot of them) around the shroud. From time to time this gets undone and hauled on.

A sort of knee. No doubt mostly to keep the channel level when the rigging is slackened.

Upper deadeye.

Shroud, which is seized around the upper deadeye.

Ratlines tied with clove hitches.

Woman from a later century.

 My favorite thing there, and good cheer!

The upper deadeyes are NOT in a perfect line.

An excellent analysis of the assembly, Mr Morrison. I particularly like the last entry. In all seriousness though, a nice breakdown of it.

In my dreams I would have loved to sail on a big ship with big spars, big rigging and big sails.

The best I've been able to do is a couple of 100 foot schooners, top sail schooners or barkentines, a bunch of sloops and a number of cat boats.

When a big wooden ship takes wind and sails, everything creaks and groans. On the leeward side the standing rigging goes loose, while the wind makes the windward side stuff sing.

On the other tack, everything shifts. Wood changes shape, lines go taut.

I've never seen a spar go away, but I've seen plenty of sails explode.

When you rig your ship, think about how the set up is not for keeping everything on the straight and narrow. It's to be ready to absorb sizable forces one side or the other. If you can build in a little slack, you have a better model.

It's a nice dream that you have, GM. It would be pretty awesome to experience indeed. You are blessed to have experienced other ships though, and that is pretty cool.  The closest thing that I have been on to a moving vessel is a canoe!  Laughing.  This should speak volumes about some things.

As I am working on the rigging under my electron microscope and special tiny tools, I will try to keep your thoughts in mind.   Good tip!