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1/350 Trumpeter The Sullivans as the USS Johnston DD 557 WIP

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  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
1/350 Trumpeter The Sullivans as the USS Johnston DD 557 WIP
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, June 05, 2015 10:19 AM

I was thinking of making a diorama of the USS Johnston of Taffy 3 during LCdr Evans' heroic mad rush at the Japanese Center Force, during the Battle off Samar off Leyte Gulf, 23 Oct 44.

Doe's anybody know how the Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher Class kit fairs? Or do you have another suggestion?

Steve

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  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, June 05, 2015 12:06 PM

Steve,

USS Johnston was a square-bridge Fletcher whereas the Tamiya kit is of an early round-bridge Fletcher.  It would ordinarily be better to start with the Trumpeter 1/350 USS The Sullivans, but there are detail problems with that kit.  I know that Yankee Model Works used to make a Johnston in resin that was quite good.  That would be the best route to go if you can find one.

That said, I recommend starting with the Trumpeter kit, improving upon it using the L'Arsenal detail set for this kit, and making the corrections necessary not covered by the detail set. This is  the approach I am taking for my conversion to the USS Morrison (DD-560).

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, June 05, 2015 12:15 PM

Thanks Bill!

I knew I could get some expert advice, rather than just blundering in and building any ole Fletcher.

I'll look for the Trumpeter and L'Arsenal set. Hopefully I'll get some cash for Father's day to get the stuff I need for the project.

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1/72 Hasegawa GR.4 Tornado
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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 05, 2015 12:17 PM

warshipguy

 This is  the approach I am taking for my conversion to the USS Morrison (DD-560).

Bill Morrison

Cool

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, June 05, 2015 12:31 PM

Bill,

I found your old May 2009 post on the web.

USS The Sullivans by Trumpeter . . . The Ultimate Building Guide

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1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, June 05, 2015 5:29 PM

There's a lot of great advice there! Go for it! And, Good luck!

Bill

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, June 05, 2015 8:16 PM

modelcrazy

Bill,

I found your old May 2009 post on the web.

USS The Sullivans by Trumpeter . . . The Ultimate Building Guide


Since you're going back to the 2009 thread,  heed my notes re: what is wrong with the The Sullivans kit.

The YankeeModelworks Fletcher kit  is no longer available.    If you intend to do a proper rebuilt message me offline.  I may have some better replacement stacks I can send you.
  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Saturday, June 06, 2015 12:02 AM

Wow! That would be fantastic Ed thanks, I'll IM you. I looked for the YankeeModelWorks kit and like you said, it's nowhere to be seen.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/72 Hasegawa GR.4 Tornado
1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
1/350 Aoshima IJN Takao

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1/72 Airfix A6M2b Type 0 Model 21 Zero, Akagi
1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, June 06, 2015 8:19 AM

I have seen it occasionally on eBay.

Bill

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, June 06, 2015 8:21 AM

GMorrison,

I thought you would appreciate that! We Morrison's are all alike!  ; )

Bill

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:33 PM

Well, I have Trumpeters’ "The Sullivans", ordered the PE set and with a very heartfelt THANK YOU to EdGrune for the replacement stacks I will be starting the USS Johnston fairly soon. My thought is to display her at flank speed, turning to port for torpedo action starboard, aiming at the cruiser Kumano, which had its bow blown off because of it.

 

My only issue is where do I get some extra hull numbers? The Sullivans kit has the hull numbers 537, Johnston is 557. Does anybody know where I can get some 5's to replace the 3's? My other option is to paint them, but I stink at small work like that.

Steve

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1/72 Hasegawa GR.4 Tornado
1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:40 PM

The latest issue of one of the WWII history mags has a story on the battle off Samar.  Going to pick one up tonight.

 

Talk about going into a gunfight armed with a penknife with a 1/4 inch blade......their sacrifies in the whole group kept the transports from getting totally creamed. 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:31 PM

Yeah, apparently she was hit a few times from the Yamato and still got back into the fight.

 

Here is a very detailed you tube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCWZzqHc8ow

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1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:56 PM

modelcrazy

 

My only issue is where do I get some extra hull numbers? The Sullivans kit has the hull numbers 537, Johnston is 557. Does anybody know where I can get some 5's to replace the 3's? My other option is to paint them, but I stink at small work like that.

Steve

 

 

Steve,

Try here for hull numbers. Hope this helps

Bruce

 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:58 PM

With that thin skin, not enough to trigger the AP shells coming in, just nice big 18 inch holes.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:01 PM
It was probably the only thing the Yamato hit during the entire war. It stopped them momentarily until they got one boiler back on line and manual steerage.

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1/72 Hasegawa GR.4 Tornado
1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:06 PM

Thanks Bruce. I didn't see any hull numbers, but it gave me an idea. I could try to make my own.

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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:14 PM

modelcrazy

Thanks Bruce. I didn't see any hull numbers, but it gave me an idea. I could try to make my own.

 

How about these

Bruce

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 5:17 PM

hogfanfs
How about these

Ya know, I jumped right over those when I saw RN, it didn't occur to me that the British use the same numbers as we do Propeller.
Long day.

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  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 6:39 PM

The font used by the British Commonwealth during WWII is different from that used by the USN.

Try these from Iron Shipwright

http://ironshipwrights.com/ironship.html

Go down to the accessory sets link

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:27 PM

Thanks again Ed, you are invaluable. Now looking at your old post, you mentioned that the torpedo tubes were incorrect. What do I do to correct them or where can I get replacements? The torpedoes will be an iatrical part of this dio. Also does L'Arsenal have the single barrel 20mm guns and correct 40mm guns by themselves? I couldn't find them.

 

Steve

ON THE BENCH

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1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
1/350 Aoshima IJN Takao

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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:27 AM

After work tonight I will go upstairs and check the torpedo tubes & refresh my memory.   I have slept (not too well or too often) since I wrote the changes needed.

However, since I wrote about the L'Arsenal Sullivans upgrade set, a new aftermarket company, Alliance Modelworks (google them), has been producing some nice things

They make twin Bofors in resin & brass.  They also make shielded & unshielded quad 40s.

Their 20mm set includes both single & twin guns

Also since I wrote,  3D printing has exploded.    You need a crew for the guns?

several sets

I have not personally seen these, but they look interesting.

Google shapeways 1:350

While you're at Shapeways look at the spme of the replacement parts for a 1:350 Fletcher ... different pilot house shapes for Beth Steel or Bath Iron built boats!, deck rings,  replcement 5"/38s.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:54 AM

Thanks Ed, I just ordered the number set from Ironshipwrights. I'll check Shapeways for the guns and crew. I will need crew. I don't want to make a ghost ship.

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1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:16 AM

Sorry for posting the RN hull numbers, it didn't hit me that they were Royal Navy, until you said that, Steve. Embarrassed

Bruce

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:28 AM

Ed, looking at several Fletcher Class photos, I'm guessing that the 40mms were twin and not quad mounts. I will get those gun packs probably next month, they are a very resonable price.
The 3D crew is also resonalbly priced. I will grab the Boffers crew and the Dungree set as well. I will be building the (USS) Prinz Eugen at Bikini before Operation Crossroads this year and need a few guys for that as well.

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1/72 Cyber Hobby D3A Val, Akagi
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In Que

1/72 Airfix A6M2b Type 0 Model 21 Zero, Akagi
1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, January 21, 2016 12:14 PM

You are correct WRT the twin 40mms.

Destroyer History dot Org has a neat graphic showing the progress of the Fletcher armament http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/armament/

If you locate the Johnston, you will see  that she had 5x5-inch,  10x40mm, and 10xTT.   The 10x40mm references the number of gun tubes,  not the number of mounts.   In this instance the allocation is 1-twin each P&S ahead of the bridge,  1-twin each P&S midships waist, and 1 in the raised tub betweer 5-inch mounts 53 and 54.

The quad 40s were used in the ultimate anti-Kamikaze armament mod, and then were used without shielding due to weight considerations.

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Thursday, January 21, 2016 1:16 PM

Steve,

This sounds like a helluva diorama!  "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors".

While Ed is here, I'll ask if anyone makes a resonable John C. Butler class of DE?  Might like to try the USS Samuel B. Roberts sometime.

Gary

anti-glare panel

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:43 PM
Ed, that is a fascinating website, and you are a wealth of information. Without your help I'm sure my little Fletcher would end up looking like some abstract piece of junk, kinda like those carved wooden "ships" you find at craft stores for nick knacks.
This also answers my question about the number of 20’s

"When the 10-barrel 40mm configuration began appearing after mid-1943, with the two new 40mm mounts replacing all 20mm forward, the number of 20mm was reduced and standardized at seven—four in the waist and three together in a heart-shaped gun tub on the fantail" ( http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/arm_7/ )

 

The only question I had left was regarding the smoke generators (Mk 10?). I know they were situated next to the depth charges on the fantail. I need to look closer at my kit tonight when I get home, but do you know if those are correct on the Trump kit? Also, while laying smoke, did the fletchers also produce smoke (black) from the stacks as well as the SG’s?
Steve

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1/72 Airfix A6M2b Type 0 Model 21 Zero, Akagi
1/350 Dragon USS The Sulivans built as USS Johnston

  • Member since
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  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:45 PM

GAF

While Ed is here, I'll ask if anyone makes a resonable John C. Butler class of DE?  Might like to try the USS Samuel B. Roberts sometime.

No, no Butler-class models in larger (i.e. 1:350 scale) either plastic or resin.   PitRoad makes (made) them in 1:700 scale plastic.  

In 1:350 scale you can get to one,  or a very close approximation of one with the Trump USS England kit of a Buckley-class DE.   From what I posted on Hyperscale last fall in answer to the same question.   

 

The DE hulls were pretty uniform. The different de classes were differentiated largely by their propulsion plant and their armament. If you are anal enough -- add a scale inch to the beam and 16.5 scale feet to the waterline length. Length overall was the same

1) References: NAVSOURCE.ORG. Look at the Butler class photos for reference. Do not focus just on the Roberts. The Squadron DEs Inaction and Floating Drydocks Destroyer Escorts of WWII both have line drawings (plan & elevation) of Butlers.

2) 5"/38s. Obtain some single-knuckle 5-inch guns from aftermarket supplier or Tamiya Fletcher (a bit undersized). You want mounts 52, 53, 54. Mounts 51 and 55 were reinforced for the superfiring gun and have a different shape. Trump Sullivans' suck.

3) Cut down bridge IAW reference drawings. Buckley had a high bridge. The Butlers a low bridge.

4) Hedgehog; superfiring over the forward 5-inch mount. From the Buckley kit

5) 40mm Twins. Go tho the aftermarket. The Tamiya Fletcher only has one and those in the Trump Sullivans suck. You also need the Mk51 directors/tubs. Check references

6) 20mm guns & tubs. A pair mounted high & low on either side of the stack. Check references. Another pair on the fantail. Don't forget the ready service lockers. Again, these are best sourced from the aftermarket.

7) Depth charge K-guns & ready racks. 4 per side. Relocate those from the Buckley, more forward and closer together.

8) Triple torpedo tube bank -- from the Buckley kit

9) Trunked stack -- from the Buckley kit

10) Remove molded-on tubs on the deck & superstructure. Replace with strip styrene or brass.

 

Any additional questions/comments may deserve a new thread

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, January 21, 2016 7:31 PM

Looking at these again,  the Trumpeter & Tamiya are similar and are probably acceptable.  Both have separate crew protection can which goes on the aft torpedo mount to protect them from the superfiring 5-inch muzzle blast.

Both of the L'Arsenal tubes come with the can.    But when you sand it off you are left without a semblance of the control station

Also found the tubes from Blue Water Navy and Yankee Modelworks.    The BWN  is white metal and the individual tubes are attached to a metal saddle.  The control station is PE and fitted afterwards.

 

The YMW tubes are resin.   with separate cans.    Nicely done.   

 

As far as the smoke generators,  those in the Trumpeter kit are two little fiddley bits which are glued together then each are attached to mounting slots on the stern.   Check your photo references - early on they were narrowly spaced.   Later the depth-charge rails were placed farther apart to to facilitate the addition of  a pair of ready service DC racks.   The smoke generators were also spread a bit wider  apart.

This is reputed to be the Hoel and Johnston at Samar.    No confirmation,  but if you choose to go this route, then by all means and tell anyone who questions you to prove you are wrong

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