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Merit 1/48 Elco 80’ PT Boat Early Type WIP

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  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:33 AM

Steve

I brush the Future on because for some reason I cannot get a smooth glossy finish when sprayed. I have tried thinning it, different PSIs, different distances etc and nothing beats brushing it for a glass smooth finish. As a matter of fact, FSM had an article not too long ago on some Master Builders and one of them brushes on Future on his cars for a super high wet shine look.

I usually wait 2-3 days for the oil washes to dry out and then shoot the clear flat over. I have a ceiling fan that I turn on low/med speed and it does a great job in air circulation helping the oil wash dry out faster. My workbench from IKEA is actually an architect desk with two open storage shelves where I can store my model where it receives excellent air circulation.

I would do the same sequence in painting the hull first then securing to the finished base that can be covered and masked for further painting of the boat. Can't wait to see the colors and weathering on.

I was just thinking of a great source of reference and that would be the movie PT109. It was shot in color and has tons of views and angle shots.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, July 30, 2015 3:18 PM

Please, ... do not use that movie as a color guide and you should know, those boats in that movie were not 80-foot ELCO PTs, they were 85-foot Miami Shipbuilding ASRC rebuilt (by Miami Shipbuilding - at GREAT expense to Warner Bros) to look like 80-foot ELCO PT boats.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:55 PM

LOL thanks for the heads up. I haven't seen that movie in years so I need to look at it again. I was wondering where they got so many PTs. If you have ever seen Empire of the Sun you would wonder where they got so many Mustangs that turned out to be large scale rc planes. I believe they only used only one real Mustang. Even the B-29 was rc.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 30, 2015 8:27 PM

Well I just saw a piece of the movie on You Tube and can't tell the difference. Read an articles that says only two kind of people know it's not a real PT, the Crash Boaters and the PT dudes. Thanks for the info!

 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Saturday, August 1, 2015 1:02 AM

PJ,

Thanks for the mini tutorial on Future and thanks for the heads up on the FSM article. I'll go through my stack and see if I can find it. That is interesting that Future does not play well with airbrushes.

Tim had noted earlier in the "Color" thread recently that the movie PT109 was not a good reference and I have to agree with him. Although I still like that movie and it was my introduction to PT Boats when I was knee high to a periscope peak. It was very interesting and I know I learned a great deal. Check it out if you have not had a chance.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Saturday, August 1, 2015 8:05 AM

Steve

Some guys swear by air brushing Future and work fine for them. But for some reason I get better results hand brushing it. As a matter of coincidence, I just received my issue of FSM and there is an article about building a Spanish FA18 where the builder hand brushes Future on the model.

A movie company goes thru big expenses at producing a film such as what PT Consulting described in converting the crash boats yet mess up with a detail like the correct color specially being just 20 years after the fact . The film does have some nice scenery though.

Lots of interesting facts I did not know about the film and all the conditions set by Kennedy.

en.wikipedia.org/.../PT_109_(film)

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Saturday, August 1, 2015 11:13 AM

One error in the movie was that mission the 109 went on to rescue the Marines off the beach.  That mission was not done with the 109.  It was done with the 59, as a gunboat.  Also, the 109 was not a complete wreck when JFK took command, and she had a whole crew at the time. So, was the movie as accurate as JFK wanted it as one of his "conditions"?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, August 1, 2015 6:10 PM

Steve - I had the same gap on my build. If you haven't glued it down, I didn't find it too hard to fill and "sand"

I filled the gap from inside with Mr Surfacer 500 and then again from the front (Reason being I can be thick and ugly on the inside and then use less on the exterior, so there's less to remove). Once it's dry, I wet a cotton swab with Mr Color thinner and rub the gap down.- the color thinner doesn't affect the plastic at all but will essentially wipe the dried Mr Color thinner away. It's a great technique in general for filling in small joints where you want to preserve detail.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by JimF51 on Monday, August 3, 2015 5:03 AM

Hi. Just wondering if there has been any hint as to whether any company will be doing PE add on sets for these PT models, as was done for the Italeri 1/35 kits?

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, August 4, 2015 9:34 PM

Tracy,

Thanks for the information and the links. I checked out your log and it looks great so far. Have you gotten any farther along yet? Since my Mr Surfacer 500 has thickened up a bit too much, I purchased another bottle. I usually use 91% alcohol to even it out and take off the excess but I'll give the thinner a try.

Jim,

I do not believe that any PE/AM company has produced any products for this scale like the 1/35 boat. I would love to get some if they come up, especially the add ons such as helmets, life jackets, etc. Tracy wrote about this on his log that is linked before your post.

Thanks again for all those following along. I just got back from a week in LA and will hopefully get some more work done after the boys start school Thursday.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, August 4, 2015 11:30 PM

Bluejacket makes a solid-hull 1/48 Elco PT with photo-etched parts. As I understand it, the company is happy to sell its photo-etched sheets if it has any leftovers.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 12:16 AM

Thanks John! I'll check out BlueJacket and see what they have and if the PE sets are available. I was thinking of replacing the the gun barrels but I am of the opinion that this model will be OOB. However, I will check out BlueJacket to see if they anything I can use on the "later" version boat I have.

Thanks again,

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 12:46 AM

docidle
Thanks for the information and the links. I checked out your log and it looks great so far. Have you gotten any farther along yet? Since my Mr Surfacer 500 has thickened up a bit too much, I purchased another bottle. I usually use 91% alcohol to even it out and take off the excess but I'll give the thinner a try.

Unfortunately not - I typically don't build for others but broke that rule twice this summer and am having to focus on other things. I have been itching to get back to it because I think I have finally figured out a way around the front chart house windows. To me, they look too inset but I hadn't come up with a good way to change this given the work I had already done. At this point, since I had replaced the clear plastic with sheet styrene, I think I'm just going to fill and sand level with more sheet styrene and then mask off the outline and spray some thick paint to get a slightly raised version. We'll have to see how good my cutting skills are though!

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 12:30 PM

Considered Krystal Klear?

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, August 5, 2015 11:29 PM

Tracy and Bill,

Both seem good suggestions. I'll have to go through my books to see if there any other pictures of the charthouse forward windows other than the PT109. I was considering using sheet styrene like you did Tracy, but if there is a better way....... Although, I am still trying to do an OOB model. Otherwise, I would get the Model Master .50 brass barrels and the RB 20mm barrel and then who knows when I'll finish this baby.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Thursday, August 6, 2015 12:25 AM

There's a decent shot of PT-157's forward windows on the first post of my build WIP on ModelWarships. Krystal clear would still be recessed, although not as bad. For better or worse, shape and appearance matter to me and things that I know are wrong jump out. So, the fix I'm planning should give a good appearance as long as I can cut the masks correctly. To that end, I ordered one of these (it arrived today) and am hoping to get some good holes cut in tape that I can use to layer paint in a precise fashion to get that raised appearance.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, August 6, 2015 12:58 AM

Tracy,

Wow, that is a significant difference! I think adding another layer or two of sheet would get you the height but I'll have to look again at my model to see what can be done about the piping around the window. It is possible to try and shape evergreen strip around the window after you get the height. Or as you are thinking, try and get the piping with thick paint.

I understand all too well about shape and forms being important when building models. I have a bad case of AMS and I have TOO many of my builds that are hold until I can figure out how to improve on the mistakes that the manufactures make. I always try to make a decent or better scale model out whatever I am working on but it can be maddening too. I look at models on Warships, Model Ship World as well as here and feel I cannot even compete! I was getting more and more frustrated so I am trying to get back to enjoying this hobby again.

This summer has been spent building kits with my boys to try and get my modeling m o j o back. I remember the joy I used to get when building a model as a kid, getting it home and jumping right in and building. I got a good dose of that watching and helping them on their kits and trying not to take over. I built a couple of planes, flying saucers, a great deal of Star Wars among others with them and we had a blast.

If the tool you received today doesn't work out as expected, I have used the swivel x-acto knife for years cutting frisket film for airbrushed illustrations. Once you get the hang of it, you will be able to cut beautiful curves with it. Not that expensive and you can get replacement blades for it. I have also used it on Tamiya and 3M Blue Painters tape with great results.

Steve

https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Tools/XAC00003241/product.php?gclid=CNDeg7Djk8cCFViRfgodAZ0GIA

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by JimF51 on Thursday, August 6, 2015 5:29 AM

Steve,

Thanks for the reply, regarding PE detail sets. It was what I thought, but just coming back to plastic modeling, I wasn't sure I had looked everywhere.

As has been noted on many hobby sites, Shep Paine passed away a few days ago. My only personal contact with him touched on the subject you, and Tracy mention, about fixing kit errors, making them right, andcomparing your efforts to those you see online.

At a wargaming/modeling weekend, many, many, many (get the idea? :) ) at MIT, this subject was being informally discussed by a few modelers, with simialr feelings to your's being mentioned. Mr Paine was there, and he had us few follow him to the display/contest room. He then pointed out errors not fixed, on several entries, 2 of which had won in their catagories. He also pointed out that, A, unless someone looking at the model was a expert, the error would not be noticed, and B, step back a foot or 2, and even a expert might not notice. He stressed, if we get too bogged down in this, we can lose the basic joy of model building, and maybe never finish the build. Yes, fix the larger glaring errors, but work to do a excellent job of finishing the model, and it's presentation, and the little ones will hardly get noticed by most people viewing it. He also addmitted, then, that a few of his models present had errors, but would not tell us what they were :)

Myself, I had been getting way too bogged down with correct details, with my UK modelling, until I recalled this chance meeting. It made me realize, I was not having FUN. So, I have stepped back, and am now going to work at building some kits of subjects that interest me, such as PT Boats, a couple of aircraft I have always liked, and a couple of MG car models. I plan to have fun, again.

Oh, and my original question regarding the PE details was not because I am hung up on super details, just I wanted to try my hand at soe of te PE stuff. I had the Italeri 1/35 PT kit, and the Eduard PE set, some time back, but sold it, as I just didn't have any space to work on it, then.

Sorry for going on so. Thanks again, and your build looks like it is going great, looking forward to seeing the end result.

Jim F

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, August 7, 2015 12:25 PM

Thanks Jim, I think there are a great number of modelers who expericence burn out and I have seen a number do exactly what I did this summer. Try something new, out of your comfort zone and try and have fun with it.

I also wanted to thank you for the link to my log over at the PT forum. I am going to be trying out a new airbrush this weekend to preshade the hull. Pictures to follow.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, August 7, 2015 8:58 PM

So, I did not get to preshade as I hoped because I decided to follow Tracy"s advice and fix some of the issues with the kit.

I started with the charthouse and removed the boxing around the rubber mat atop the charthouse. Next up was the windows. The majority of pictures of the early Elco's show that the forward windows were replaced with materail other than glass. Therefore, I used strip styrene to fill the window openings and then used Mr Surfacer 500 to fill in the gaps. I think I need to smooth out them out a bit more, but I'll see how I like them in the morning.

Steve

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by JimF51 on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 5:28 AM

Not sure if these have been mentioned anywhere, found them yesterday. 1/48 sailors.

http://www.shapeways.com/product/YFXKX2YWG/1-48-us-navy-sailor-dungaree-set-1?li=search-results-1&optionId=56251169

Not combat poses, more like general on duty ones, but could be useful to you more creative types. :)

 

Jim F

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by JimF51 on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:44 AM
  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:00 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the links, I did see them; however, I do not put figures on my ships..... a quirk maybe, since they are nice to show scale. I'll tell you though, the figures companies are putting out now are incredible. North Star also does some awesone figures.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:12 PM

Here are some updates. First off I sanded the moldings along the edge of the decks since the early boats did not have this feature. Merit uses the same deck for both early and later boats with the modeler drilling out the appropiate holes for the different deck features.

Tracy recommended it so I gave it a shot and after an hour and a half I now have a smooth deck. The first shots show the deck before and after. I am going to go over the deck again with fine sandpaper to make sure I have it SMOOTH.

The next pictures show various subassemblies I have been working on. They all need some more attention to detail as in clean up and priming. The torpedo tubes have 7 pieces per and the railings on the gun turrets were a bear to get close to even.

The torpedos themselves have 4 pieces and it looks like the fins are the wrong shape, but as they are going into the tubes....... except for one that I am thinking of having displayed on the base. Another will have the cover off so you can see the head of the torpedo. The other two will be buttoned up. 

I am working on the mas duces and will post pictures after they are completed.

Steve

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Thursday, August 13, 2015 1:54 PM

It turned into a scratchbuilding day. While looking at Tracy White's log I noticed that he had scratched the interior framing of the bridge on his early boat as well as providing pictures showing an example. I also checked out the PT103 website to check out their scale drawings to see what I was in for.

Actually, it did not turn out that there was much work so I gave it a try. Using Evergreen sheet and strip styrene I constructed the framing and starboard door for the bridge. this is another one of those kits that I SWORE I would build out of the box........ ah well. I think this will be the end of scratching anything on this kit now...... hopefully. The styrene strip is .040 x .040 while the sheet is .040 thickness and eyeballing the whole thing. The small shelf is a .020 x .100 strip cut to length.

The sequence of pictures show the process I went through if anyone is interested in building this kit down the road.

Steve

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Thursday, August 13, 2015 11:14 PM

JimF51
Guess I missed these, might be more suitable..

I went through and looked at all of his sets. There are three "combat" sets and one "Dungaree" set that is not in battle dress. Honestly, all feel over dressed for the South Pacific to me, but they are definitely an option in the tool chest.

Combat Set 1 - Sorta useful, but more designed around destroyers and larger in poses and dress (director captain, for example)

Combat Set 2 - AA Gunners and loaders (20mm & 50 cal, all standing)

Combat Set 3 - Quad 40mm team, train & elevate & a bunch of loaders (for four guns)

Dungaree set 1 -

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 13, 2015 11:35 PM

But I think they are a good start.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, August 14, 2015 10:22 AM

You know something, guys?

I never noticed that the back of the torpedo tubes are inaccurate.  For one, they should have a little concaved look to them and the bracing looks wrong.  Hmmm.  Someone should do PE for that.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, August 14, 2015 4:57 PM

Tim,

I also wish someone would come out with a PE set for this kit and the later version. I have the White Ensign set for the 1/72 Revell kit so I'll have to look at it and some photos to see how off the bracing might be. Thanks for pointing it out, but I think I will leave fixing this for a later kit....... 

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, August 14, 2015 5:02 PM

A question for the experts.

Is this fixture a heating unit? I have fouind it on photos of boats at the training base in the Northeast but not on any of the South Pacific boats. I recall reading that it was a heating unit but again, I cannot find where the heck I read it! If so, then I will leave it off and fill the connnection points.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

       

 

 

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