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1/96 RVL Constitution Build, reference and source guide.

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  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, January 4, 2018 12:15 PM

I have already assembled up to laying in the Gun Deck.  I put my Gun Deck in 3 pieces, I found doing this helped me get the Scaledecks AM wood deck to fit better.  I first air brushed the deck with a light coat of MM Wood #4673. This really helped the planking details of the Scale deck stand out.  I used regular elmers type water based white glue to adhere Scale deck, this allowed me a bit of time to work with. Easy clean up with a water moistened Q-tip and finger.  

I am not going to do alot of extra detailing on gun deck since most of it will not show. I have already built all my cannons, there like doing another build. There was a lot of flash to clean up. I used MM British Crimson #4609 for carriages. This seemed to closely match the color I seen in pics/paintings. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:37 PM

Livit,

      My Comfy Chair and and refreshments are ready.  I will take my place in line to Watch & Learn.

     If anything goes wrong or missing, I have a complete set of extra parts except for the hull halves. Let me know if you need anything. 

     I worked for IBM for many years and had the VA,  both the Hospital and Administration sites, as my Account for many years here in Philly.  Great Folks. They(YOU)  are to be commended for the support of our Vets.

       Nino.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:41 PM

Tks Nino, being a DAV myself makes my job at the VA very rewarding at times. I work in the background on the Federal Law Enforcement side of the VA Hospital. I am at times occassionally involved in suicide prevention, which is a very big deal with the VA now "Finally' !

I got all the cannons glued onto gun deck and one side tied in.  After getting the first 3 cannons tied down, I got a rythym going and it went along quickly.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 7, 2018 4:15 AM

I have run into my first issue. The cannons are not staying adhered, just a slight bump and they come loose. I had no problems tying down the first side shortly after gluing down the cannons. Now the other side after setting a few days before I could get back to tying them are coming loose way to easily. I originally used regular testors model glue and have now tried some tamiya thin and its not helping. Any suggestions here would be appreciated. Glad this has happened on the gun deck and not the main deck, the regluing is showing. Thinking about trying some thick CA, what do yall think ?    Dale

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, January 7, 2018 4:20 AM

sometimes I have lightly sanded the bottom of the wheels , just to get a slight flat area for the glue to grab onto , and yes thick ca , could help .

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 7, 2018 5:49 AM

Steve I did lightly sand the wheels, but maybe not quit enough.  I had not taken an possible plastic to wood veneer having an adhesion issue. Least learning this now :)  

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, January 7, 2018 10:56 AM

In addition to  sanding the bottoms of wheels on carriages, I dimple through the paint with a small drill bit and pin vise, at each wheel location,  to get through the paint and into the plastic.  Drill about 1/32 into the plastic to get an even better bond than the flat plastic.

When you need to drill that many holes it pays to make a jig from a piece of cardboard or thin plastic- mark the location of the carraige wheels and drill through the piece, then use it to drill through the holes at each carraige location.

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Sunday, January 7, 2018 4:53 PM
Levit, if your deck is painted wood, Testor’s model glue wil not work. Steve’s suggestion of flattening and CA should work fine. I was wondering if the gun carriages could be tied tight enough that they would not need to be glued?

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 7, 2018 6:27 PM

Don thank you ! That is an excellent tip.  I am in process of making a couple of templates/jigs now. 

Shipwreck, you could do more tying down. But since the Gundeck is going to get for the most covered up, I was trying to keep it very basic. I will be doing more realistic looking rigging of the guns on the main decks.  I am not sure of the manufacturing process of the Wood veneer Scaledeck, but it has to be stained or painted to get the really nice detailing it has. At least this has happened now before I had it all covered up, what a PITA that would of been. Plus, this is a lesson learned for the next builder.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 6:54 PM

Shipwreck, I have to correct myself in what I said about tying down the guns. I had originally attached the rope to cannon and pin with some slack for recoil. Since it is not going to show anyways I took out that slack and if you do your wrap of pin and cannon to the bottom (rope overlapping below pins) then it does apply a bit of down force.

I am still shopping for new laptop. Should have one by friday or saturday, then I will get to posting pics soon there after.   Dale

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:54 PM

http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/constitution/  very interesting USS Constitution virtual tour.

I had gotten some 1.5mm cannon balls from Modelexpo.  They to me, appear to be way too small for any of the cannons or Carronades, on my Connie.  My math is not the best, but from what I could figure out the 24 pounders cannon balls in 1/96 scale should be around 1.68 mm. Is my math way off ?

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:32 PM

Your right! Trying to get the cannons to stay in place is a PITA! What I wound up doing was drilling a very small hole in each one and pushing very thin wire down through the hole  and into the deck with CA on it. That along with a spot of glue on the wheels will keep it in place. It is time consuming but it works and they wont fall off. You can get different thicknesses of thin wire at Hobby Lobby. I keep three thicknesses on hand.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, January 12, 2018 1:15 AM

Mark, thats an excellent tip. I had not thought about pinning them.

I was advised that my math was correct and those are the right size cannon balls. Going to thicken them up a bit with a few coats of paint.

Got my first order of the Syren rigging line. I am impressed, this line is very nice !

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Friday, January 12, 2018 7:00 PM

I'm glad you talked about the syren line because that's what I want to use.The pictures of it look great. I am on my 3rd-yes 3rd 96 Constitution. Haven't started it yet,my first one got demolished in the basement from a basketball and my second one has been sitting there half done because I don't like the way it looks so instead of trying to fix it which would almost be impossible I bought another one on sale. I plan on getting wood decks,cloth sails,wood blocks and new rigging line and I'm going to finish it come hell or high water. About 6months ago I finished the 1\196 version and had a blast doing it.Please send some pictures of your build I would love to see them!

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Saturday, January 13, 2018 10:08 AM

Dale, get some 560 white canopy glue. That  is what I use mostly as it is strong. I glue all my deck furniture, decks, cannons & as much as possible with it. You can clean excess off with a wet Qtip., but it is waterproof when dry. I thought you said you used it.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 13, 2018 10:55 AM

Somewhere I picked up a chart about ball and bore diameters. According to that, a 24 lb ball is 5.68 inches.

 

That's 1.49 mm or 0.059 inches at scale.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 13, 2018 10:57 AM

Pinning them is a very good idea.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 13, 2018 1:53 PM

I got my new PC today, so should be able to start posting pics in the next day or so.

Mark, I will be using the syren line for the first time, hopefully this evening. Along with the 3 sizes I listed in the first post are almost exactly what revell provides in kit. I have also been told that one size smaller is really nice to have when doing your upper most riggings.  Eventually I will be able to provide how much will be needed for completion. I am going to attempt to use as much of the rigging hardware OOB. But I have replaced the eyebolts with brass and still debating on a few other things.

Gene, I do use the 256. I use it on knots, windows and anything I am going to be able to leave for a day or so. I had not even thought about using it on the cannons.

Bill, thanks for verification. That math had me scratching my head, which dont help the hairloss situation any. 

Syren rigging line is pre-waxed. Should I still use more bees wax on it ? Glad to see yall here....tks.... Dale

 

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:38 PM

Hey Livit,

that's a great subject on the knots! What do you guys use after tying a knot? I have in the past used a pinhead of CA but the only thing is it looks like you used CA and it looks terrible. I've tried several things that doesn't dry as fast and but nothing works like CA,everything else you have to let it dry overnight. Let me know how the syren works out,I'm about to buy some not only because   it looks great but I believe its not fuzzy like the line that comes in the kit and it would be nice not to have to run every line through bees wax before applying.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 13, 2018 9:33 PM

This is first post with new PC. All that updating took awhile !

Mark, the Syren line is not fuzzy at all. It looks just like miniature rope, not sewing thread :)....  I used Tamiyal extra thin for tying in my gundeck cannons. It is almost as fast setting as CA, but does not have the sheen that CA does. That was with the line that came with the kit, not sure yet how its going to work on the Syren waxed line. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 14, 2018 8:58 AM

Good photos couple post more. Finally !

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Sunday, January 14, 2018 2:43 PM

I'll try the  tamiya thin and let you know how it turned out -thanks

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Sunday, January 14, 2018 3:14 PM

Cant  see the photos

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 14, 2018 3:29 PM

Tks Mark, trying to use google pics and not having much luck. Maybe someone will tell me  what I am doing wrong. 

Using the xtra thin Tamiya on the Syren rigging line works, but the Syren line absorbs faster and spreads, so you have more line that is a bit stiff. I am still happy with the results. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:09 AM

   Finally able to get pics posted tks to a member downunder. This is what I've got so far. Like I had previously mentioned "nothing that fancy or an amazing build" just basic plus a bit.

lots of little cannons  line wrapped to bottom as I described

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:31 AM

I have a bit of touch up painting to do on gun deck, tie down some mast bits to gun deck and install captains quarters. Which again I am not getting fancy on. I brush painted most of it, except copper on hull and a varying darkness coat of MM wood on the gundeck prior to adhering the wood scale deck, that brought out the details a bit more. In my mind, I cannot see the white on the gun deck walls being perfect. What image I get is like the white washed fence in the Tom Sawyer movie, I cannot see it having that airbrushed look.  I am sure the spar deck had a bit more attention to detail being done to it. 

  • Member since
    January 2017
Posted by damouav on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:41 AM

Mate,

Your last two images dont display correctly, make sure you select "copy image address" and not "copy image".

In Progress
1/48 Tamiya P47-D Bubbletop
1/48 Hobby Boss TBF-1C Avenger (on hold)
Pending
1/48 Roden S.E.5a
1/48 Airfix Walrus
  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:20 AM

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:24 AM

Tks again, that should of fixed them.   Dale

  • Member since
    January 2017
Posted by damouav on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:30 AM

No, still no go.

Try deleting the files from GP, and then uploading again, then go through the process mentioned.

In Progress
1/48 Tamiya P47-D Bubbletop
1/48 Hobby Boss TBF-1C Avenger (on hold)
Pending
1/48 Roden S.E.5a
1/48 Airfix Walrus
  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:49 AM

Hoping to see some images of what you've done. No luck yet - just the blank area with circles in the middle.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:54 PM

I am having to spend more time doing this thread and trying to get pics up than I am getting to build. As the song says "The thrill is gone"  this is getting to be more of a PITA than I have time to invest !

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:58 PM

There's some issue with Google Pics and certain browsers. I can't get it to work either. I use Fotki and I really like it. Costs about $ 20 a year or less, I don't remember. Fast, NO ADS, and drag and drop from camera to hosting site.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:07 PM

LIVIT

I am having to spend more time doing this thread and trying to get pics up than I am getting to build. As the song says "The thrill is gone"  this is getting to be more of a PITA than I have time to invest !

 

 

I agree. I have all my pics on a hard drive, but re entering all that stuff from each thread takes a lot of time. In the end, is any other hosting site gonna do the same thing as PB? Then we're back to where we started. It's so frustrating that I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort to post pics anymore. Maybe just for a one-of post or something. I just don't want to spend a bunch of time taking the pics, posting to a hosting site, Re-posting from there to the forum thread in a linear fashton with text, all so all you see is a bunch of "this picture has been deleted or moved" info in a box. Without the pics it loses the whole effect. "A picture is worth a thousand words", but a picture that's been blocked or deleted is worth nothing.

Might just have to go back to being a troll.

 

EJ

Completed - 1/525 Round Two Lindberg repop of T2A tanker done as USS MATTAPONI, USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:33 PM

Yup it got me a bit flustered !  Bill I am going to give your suggested image hosting site a try. I dont mind spending a little amount if it works right ! FSM should start doing image hosting, All my RC sites do it. Heck I wouldnt even mind a couple of dollar fee charged to be able to use there image hosting. EJ, its a shame how many quality build threads that now no longer have any images or very few because of greed !  

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:25 PM

let me know if yall can see these 2 pics please

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:36 PM

Woohoo!!

Coca Cola

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:51 PM

Finally ! Big Smile  Bill, I used fotki as you suggested and your right, "it's so easy even this caveman can do it" and you get a 30 day free trial, plus decent how-to help. Love the drag and drop feature... tks my lfriend. Now I can get back to posting some more pics and building.     Dale

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 10:59 PM

 this is a larger image you can zoom in on

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:39 AM

very nice livit ,

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:31 AM

Tks Steve, if yall go back a page I re-posted the images that did not show the first couple of tries. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:53 PM

I got my eye bolts blackened. I first clean the brass eye bolts in denatured alcohol, rinse with cool water, dry throughly. Try not to touch the brass bits, this keeps your skin oil off them. I then soak in a small amount of Birchwood Casey Brass Black for a few minutes , drain excess and dry on papertowell, again try not to touch pieces as this will remove the blackening, plus it is toxic. Once dry, I apply a coat of MM Acrylic clear coat. This will keep the blackening from rubbing off as easily.  

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:25 AM

I finally have a whole day and evening to devote too my build. I installed a couple of the gun port hatches/lids and do like the appearance. I do know that the general consensus is that the earlier Constitution fittings did not have hinges and that the 2 piece lids were a latter fitting. I have read that the lids were removed during battle mode. I have found that the lids are extremely delicate and the slightest bump and they come off. For this reason and the fact that they were not probable there to begin with, I have decided not to install all of them.  The info I have not found is what was done with these hatches/lids after removal for battle. Were they taken down to the gun deck or lashed to the spar deck ?    Dale

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:18 AM

Hi Dale, your new ,is it fotki, pictures are great. I never liked looking at Photocopy. It was always too small & fotki blows up beautiful.I would love to see your Constitution. I picked up a monogram 1/120 Imai Conny & will build it pretty much Out of the box. Maybe including the shrouds. 

   Dale, I use 560 for everything I can, as it does hold & I don't believe I have ever had anything break off,I glue the hull together with AC & my 1x2 with AC or epoxy. I use 560 to glue the deck in & all the deck furniture & cannons & everything I can. I haven't tried it on thread.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:12 AM

Dale, on spending too much time on the site, I really spend most of mine on building my ship. I do spend time here at breakfast & after I quit building for the day. Even at my age I can't wait to get back down on my model. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:51 PM

Tks Gene, as you suggested I went back and reglued all my cannons down with the canopy glue.  It also works well on knots, just keep in mind it takes a good bit longer to dry on the knots. I still prefer the Tamiya xtra thin glue for knots, it also dries clear. As you can see from the new pics the canopy glue dries clear with no signs of it being used. Just a bit more touch up painting and I will be ready to cover up the gun deck.  I am still waiting on any suggestions of what to do with the gun port lids. After looking at the pics, I realized there was a bit more touch up painting to do :) 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:54 PM

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:55 PM

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:00 PM

Sorry for duplicate pics, not sure what is happening now. Pics I tried to post not same as what showed in duplicate posts.  arggh ! 

Anyways hope all can see where I am at so far. As stated previously, just a fairly standard build, not trying to get crazy. I am learning a good bit of skills for future more intricate builds. I should have the Spar deck in and done or almost done by Sunday, since I am off fri, sat & sun this week Smile

edit: the glue residue that is visible by the cannons is not the canopy glue that is residue from trying to use CA......

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:14 PM

Dale, those guns look good. I hope that they will be secure. I hope someone shares some of their wisdom regarding the gunports; I am also waiting to hear. Research for my Connie build is still in process. Another thing I have to do is clear my work area to make room for it.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:25 PM

Shipwreck tks bud, you had asked previously about using the Syren rigging line.  I am very pleased with it and actually in process of ordering more. One thing I did learn, since it is real miniature rope, meaning multiple twisted strands. When it is cut, it will start to seperate. What I do now is, soon as I cut it, I dip end lightly into my Tamiya thin cement and lightly twist, this sure does make it easier to thread. 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, January 25, 2018 5:47 AM
Thanks for the tip on glueing the rope ends. I will deffinetly buy some. I figure that if I start practing now; in about a year I will be ready for some rigging on the ship!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:04 PM

So, Dale, you bought some rope; but you are buying some more? What sizes did you get in the first place and how do you know when you have enough? It seems that this could get expensive!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, January 25, 2018 3:13 PM

shipwreck , one thing about syren line , it is pre waxed , no hairy bit's . what I did with the amount of line ,. was to buy some when I could afford to , and build up a stash of it , with different size's . knowing I would be building quite a few ship's . 

his line is very nice . and does make a difference to your model .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:51 PM

steve5

shipwreck , one thing about syren line , it is pre waxed , no hairy bit's . what I did with the amount of line ,. was to buy some when I could afford to , and build up a stash of it , with different size's . knowing I would be building quite a few ship's . 

his line is very nice . and does make a difference to your model .

steve5

Ditto, it is a very good quality product.   It comes in 20' packages, price varies $4.50 to $6.50 a pack.  I did not use it to tie down cannons on gun deck, but wish now that I had done so.  Here are the sizes I bought so far Rigging Line: Syren Ship Model Company  A-.012 B .018 C-.035 these are very close matches to the tan RVL line. RVL uses a letter corresponding to a color on end of line spool. 

Syren provides a line size gauge you can download, which is a nice thing to have.  Shipwreck I cannot yet give a fair answer as to how much of each size is going to be needed.  I am keeping a log of how much I have used so far and will post that info on first page and future post of the build.  Far as the expense goes, I think its more than worth it, easier to work with, appearance is way better than anything else I have seen yet. I dont think it will change color like I have heard others complain about the RVL line.    Dale

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, January 26, 2018 3:14 AM

I figured out the approximate amount of Tan line needed for all of the build in the first instruction manual, there is 2 manuals.  This is if you do it all as RVL suggests, this does included gunport lids.  A 2' so far, still need to do the Stanchions which will take alot of the A,  B 16' C 32'.  That is only roughly $25 worth.  

What I would do differentally if I was to build this model again.  Use Syren line for everything. Replace what RVL refers to as pins on inside of hull for gun deck cannons rigging with eyebolts. These pins on mine were a mess and more like a mold drip than a pin.  Use the 560 canopy glue for cannons on wood scaledeck. Prepared hull for better base than what RVL provides.  Did not realize until after I had glued hull halves together, that there is two locations for a nut to be glued in for After market pedestal use.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, January 26, 2018 5:28 PM

I had to edit previous post, did not figure out how much A line would be needed to do the Stanchions. There is a good amount of them to do.  

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, January 26, 2018 5:56 PM

It's pretty well established that in 1812, there were no hinged gun port lids. Maybe removable covers, and sometime later the split lids.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, January 26, 2018 6:24 PM

Tks Bill, I was actually researching that info. So the hinge cutouts and rigging line holes would have to be filled if one was really wanting to represent the 1812 version.

I have looked at a lot of pics and installed a couple of the gunports on mine. Even though it is not "Historically" accurate I really do like the added appearance.  If I dont put on the lids, it is going to take a good bit of putty work and re-painting to cover up all that. I am going to try rigging a few more and use the formual 560 glue as my friend Gene suggested and see if they still are as delicate as the couple I installed using Tamiya glue. 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Friday, January 26, 2018 11:01 PM

On the topic of glues-- plastic model "glues" are really solvents. They work chemically-- by causing the surface of the two parts to melt and fuse together. That's why they tell you you have to scrape the paint off- to have bare plastic against bare plastic. So it is no surprise that liquid glue didn't bond the cannons to a painted wood surface.

CA glues form a mechanical bond between the items. They will hold better on a rougher or porous surface, as the glue has something to hold onto. That's why CA is so good on wood. a gentle pass with sandpaper will leave plastic parts with tiny scratches, wich improves CAs ability to grab. CAs weakness is in shear strength-- so try not to hit your gun carraiges from the side- that is the way to knowk them loose!

I was a little surprised the Tamiya thin liquid cement works so well on the waxed line. It must be dissolving the wax, allowiing it to flow into the fibers of the thread, and then evaporating, leaving the wax to harden again, locking the knot in place. Tamiya cement does evaporate quickly- always cap it after use.

Finally, I agree with the others who have posted that hinged gunports are not accurate for an 1812 Constitution. But it is your model, you should do what you makes you happiest. Whatever you choose to do, the value of this thread is enhanced-- others who come along behind you will now be alerted to the fact that if they don't want gunports, they should decide early enough to fix the little mounting holes before painting.

I have already learned from this thread and will continue to follow it...... Thanks for taking the time to share your build!!

-Bill

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 27, 2018 2:57 AM

Bill, good to hear that my simple build is helping others. I did sand the bottom of the cannon wheels but not the wood deck.  I have had a lot of experience using ca's on my RC planes but had never tried it on plastics. I do believe your right about how the Tamiya thin is reacting on the rigging line, it ends up looking very good to me. 

First 2 pics without the gun port lids, to me give an appearance that somethings missing. Plus like I said those holes and hinge cutouts really show. I think it looks better with the lids in place.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:34 AM

rcboater

On the topic of glues-- plastic model "glues" are really solvents. They work chemically-- by causing the surface of the two parts to melt and fuse together. That's why they tell you you have to scrape the paint off- to have bare plastic against bare plastic. So it is no surprise that liquid glue didn't bond the cannons to a painted wood surface.

CA glues form a mechanical bond between the items. They will hold better on a rougher or porous surface, as the glue has something to hold onto. That's why CA is so good on wood. a gentle pass with sandpaper will leave plastic parts with tiny scratches, wich improves CAs ability to grab. CAs weakness is in shear strength-- so try not to hit your gun carraiges from the side- that is the way to knowk them loose!

>>><<<

-Bill

 

Bill, I agree with all that you said here. But going beyond that I am questioning using mettle I-bolts on the deck of ships instead of the kit supplied plastic. Off the deck the bolt is tied to a line that has an upward force (up the mask). That is a shear against the mettle/CA/plastic bond. Now, on an antenna CA'd to an aircraft wing will bond nicely; till it receives a nice bump! So I tend to conclude that a solvent bond would be superior to a CA bond in such a situation.

 

On the down side, in the event of a broken bolt, it would be easier to repair a pulled out mettle bolt than to drill and replace a plastic one. The CA verses solvent bond would not be a question on an I-bolt on the side of the ship were mettle would be better!

 

Then, how many of those deck plastic I-bolts ever get broken?

 

 

Ben

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:59 AM

Ben, from what I have read about the plastic eyebolts is the ring snapping from tension. I am using all brass eyebolts that I blackened. I glued 4 into gun deck using the 560 glue and there not going to come out easily. Plus no residue, I am liking this glue more and more. I had used it for years on my RC plane and boat canopies and it has stood up to some serious abuse. Dale

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: San Diego
Posted by jgonzales on Saturday, January 27, 2018 7:37 AM

Hi Dale,

I'm enjoying you build, thanks for sharing. I respect your choice to include the hinged gunport lids. I built my first two "old Ironsides" with gunport lids  and am building my third without them, and there is something menacing about the image of closed gunports slowly opening and the guns running out, as if a ship is "baring it's teeth" that is now lacking in my current version. 

I have also switched to metal eyebolts. I must say that in my first two builds, I never had  plastic eyebolts break on me; the plastic solvent cement I used held them just fine. 

Keep up the great work!

Jose

Jose Gonzales San Diego, CA
  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:33 AM

Hi Jose, tks. Another reason I am glad I went with the brass eyebolts is option of custom bolt lengths. I noticed on the gundeck that the added thickness of that wood scaledeck was not allowing for much plastic to plastic adherement for the kit eyebolts.  I am with you, the brass eyebolts also look alot nicer. Did you use the kit rigging blocks and would you suggest using AM blocks and deadeyes ?

Just placed another order with Syren for more rigging line. I am going to be making my own ratlines. I do not like the kit ratlines. The kit ratlines are same thickness throughout. I know the vertical line ( don't know the names of them yet) are thicker than the horizontal. But didnt the ratlines overall thickness decrease each level ?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 27, 2018 10:08 AM

The brass eyebolts look better in my opinion. It's probably true that a plastic bolt glued to a plastic deck is a better bond. I've had them break off at the deck fairly often, esp. on the larger scale models.

At this point I would also like to recommend a couple of additional strengthening operations. There's not much in ship modeling that's worse than having a belaying pin rail, or a channel with all of the shrouds rigged, snap off. It can be put back but it's never quite the same.

When you glue the pin rails along the inside of the bulwarks, after installation drill holes from the outside through the side and into the rail. Take short sections of steel wire such as a short piece of paper clip, and insert in with CA. Cut them off flush on the outside and patch the ends. Two per rail

Channels are the shelves on which the lower deadeyes are attached. On a ship, the extreme upward force that the shrouds generate from the force of the wind bending the masts forward is transferred through the chain plates down to the hull. The term channel probably derives from the longer term chain gunwale. The force on them on a ship is primarily compression against the side of the ship. But on a plastic model, the glue joints take over. It's possible, and the practice on a wood model, to anchor the chain plates at their bottoms to the hull with a stout pin, then run a wire from the top of the chain plate through the channel and wrap it around the lower deadeye. Then whatever strain is put on the shroud, and it's just the tightening during rigging, is properly distributed.

On a plastic model the chain plates usually don't do much more than get glued on and look the part. The channel itself gets glued to the side of the ship, and the stress from the shrouds pulling upward creates a shear force on the channel- hull connection.

Pins really help here. The installation is one-sided so it's slightly different than the pin rails, but equally important.

The assemblies above that are reffered to as shrouds (vertical) and ratlines (horizontal). There is indeed a great difference in the diameter of the ropes involved. Whatever force is driving a big heavy ship with a wide beam and deep draft through the water is being put into the hull through the shrouds. While there are a lot of them, it's a lot of force. They might be 8" lines, 3" or so in diameter. And smaller as the amount of sail on each mast decreases.

The ratlines on the other hand are only there to get sailors up the mast to handle sails. If you study the drawings or the sailing ships you can still find, the ratlines are only there to the extent that they are needed for climbing, and often do not span across all of the shrouds, or appear at all on masts where the yards are lowered to the tops for handling sails. 

How to add them to the shrouds is a whole discussion. I like to use thread, and actually tie them to each shroud. But there are other options for materials, and other ways to attach them to each shroud.

One last thing. The path to install a shroud is as follows. One end is anchored to the channel via the deadeye and lanyard assembly it is seized to. The shroud runs up to the masthead. It passes through a hole in the top, goes around the mast on top of the crosstrees in a fore to aft direction but not around the base of the top mast, and returns back down to the hull on the same side of the ship. It gets gammoned or lashed to itself just under the trees.

Then you switch sides and install another pair of shrouds on that side. Continue back and forth, fore to aft. If at the end there's an odd numbered shroud, then and only then does it go up one side and down the other.

What you get at the top, over the trees, is a pretty big stack of rope, sometimes about as tall as the mast.

I hope that makes sense.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Saturday, January 27, 2018 12:33 PM

GM,

    Your detailed recommendations and related experience  pinpont why I joined this forum.

      "... Shrouds, pin rails, and eyebolts...". best advice ever.

 

    Thanks.

        Nino

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, January 27, 2018 1:35 PM

Tks, Bill. Appreciate you explaining in detail. Now I also know the right nomenclatures too. I will do the pinning, I was already planning on doing some pinning on the mast assemblies along with putting brass tubing inside masts where ever I could.   Dale

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, January 27, 2018 6:44 PM

Let us not skip over the use of epoxy glues for strong joints as well.

To my thinking, epoxy is the best eyebolt glue a person can use for deck eyebolts of whatever material.

For channels and pinrails, they can be 80% glued with epoxy, but tacked into place with either plastic solvent glue or CA.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 28, 2018 6:25 AM

I have been using ca's and epoxies for years on my RC stuff. Had not thought about using it on my plastics.

CapnMac, is there a particular epoxy brand/type that seems to work best with the plastics ?

Gentleman thank you for all your valuable inputs, I do truly appreciate your contributions to what has become a good resource and information build thread. Just as my original intention for it to become were.   Dale

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Sunday, January 28, 2018 10:00 AM

Dale, your Conny really looks good & I am anxious to see it. I do like the gun port doors & when did they use the double doors like I put on my Conny? 

   I do use CA glue on my metal eyebolts into a small hole to fit the bolt. Never had them break loose. I never use the plastic eyebolts. They break to easily. I like epoxy, but for little things it is too much trouble to mix. I use it to glue the 1x2 wood into my hull & I used to use it a lot in building wood ships.

   GM, that was a really great post that covered a lot of topics. Names of ship parts have drifted away from me over the years & it is nice to have some of them back. Unless I forget them by the time I am back with the Alabama. 

     Dale it is nice to hear that you have the Alabama now. I have a second one coming & will do more with it.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Sunday, January 28, 2018 12:01 PM
When I want a strong bond I generally use multiple types of glue like Ca and solvent on the same join. But epoxy is certainly the way to go for strength; but I generally make mess of it and can never seem to get it mixed right, Does anyone know of some easy to mix products that would work well for modeling?

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, January 28, 2018 12:52 PM

Gene, I "think" the split gun lids came about during the 1835 refit.

Carl, I have used Hobby Poxy for years. But for my wood, styrofoam, Carbon Fiber etc.. not on plastics though and I am going to experiment with it using some empty sprues. It is a simple 50/50 with multiple dry times available. When mixing small amounts like just a drop or 2 I have an old plastic cutting board (dollar general special) that is great to mix on.

Got all the Gunport lids done. I like the look.     

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Sunday, January 28, 2018 5:19 PM

I've found the best way attach brass eyebolt's is put them in the deck , before the deck goes in . that way you can bend the length up under the deck and glue it , impossible to come out .

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, January 29, 2018 8:47 PM

Good suggestion Steve, tks.

I finally have the gundeck, gunlids and paint touchups to gun deck done. Putting on all those gunlids is one of those do a few take a break. So most my build time this weekend was put into them and I like the looks. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, January 29, 2018 9:07 PM

Here is one that can be magnified, sorry bout that 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, January 29, 2018 9:29 PM

Got the spardeck installed. Some seam sanding and a bit of touch up paint to do, then I can lay down the scaledeck.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 29, 2018 10:02 PM

Sharp. Remember that the guns had an eyebolt each near the center of the ship, from which the tackle was rigged to run them in.

That tackle should be rigged for a ship in action. But it doesn't often get modeled.

I believe the bow chasers were 18 pounders.

Here's a chart I think is pretty accurate on the subject of bores and shot weight.

 

 

The bore would be bigger than the shot diameter, but not by much.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, January 29, 2018 10:47 PM

Thats some great info. I had asked Mr. Morrison for some cannon ball size info. Thank you sir for taking the time to post this. For a reference point the 24lb cannons at 1/96 would use a 1.5mm cannon ball.  I am going to go into more detail on my Spardeck and riggings. I will add that eyebolt for the cannons and some tackle.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, February 1, 2018 7:57 AM

Still working on getting spardeck ready for scale deck. Should have it done today.

Something that I think we should touch on is favorite tools and why. I have robbed a lot of my building tools from out of my fly tying tool kit. I teach DAV's how to tie flies and flyfish, so my tools have been used alot and have never had to replace them yet. In the pic from left to right. 

First is the line threader, this one is better than any sewing version you can buy. Plus it is nice in that it has such a long reach. Works well on most any size line. Specially the small stuff. Second is pin files, not a neccessity but nice to have. Third is a nice selection of tweezers. Forth, another flytying tool is the small very sharp scissors. Fifth pin vise, must have for ship builders. Sixth razor knives. 6&7 are sprue cutters, the first one that looks like tweezers is the best I have ever used, it cuts close, so less parts trimming and its sharp. Works well on all size parts. At top more flytying tools, spring clamps, they come in multiple sizes and I find are more convenient that forceps, but I still do use forceps. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Thursday, February 1, 2018 9:33 AM

Dale, this has been a really great thread, post , build on yoir Constitution. I never know what to call these writeups.It really looks great & I like your tools too. You need to tell me about the threaders, I haven't used them I don't think. 

   How do you like your wood deck by now? Did you stain it or leave it natural?

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, February 1, 2018 4:47 PM

Tks Gene, that coming from guys like you means alot to me. The correct terminology for the type of threader I am using is  Bobbin Threader and they do come in various lengths and cost around $10 with shipping.  A Bobbin is another handy tool. IE: Syren rigging line comes in a zip baggie and you need to put it on a thread spool. You can buy bulk bags of small thread spools on ebay for just a few dollars. The Bobbin holds the spool and has a stem you thread the line through so no loops coming off spool and twisting etc...

I did not stain my scale deck. I did feel it was a bit light in color.  What I did was apply a coat of MM wood to plastic deck, this darkened it up some and seemed to make the details stand out more. I varied the shade and this to me gave it more of that stoned look.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:23 AM

Got scale deck done on spardeck. Working on getting all the eyebolts in place.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, February 7, 2018 9:07 PM

Dale, that really looks great. You are doing a beautiful job. I am even thinking about a Revell 1/96 United States & a Scaledeck deck for it. I have an Imai/ Monogram 1/120 United States. I got a good price on ebay & I almost only want to build larger ships & either Imai or Revell or Imai knockoffs.

   I am going to use 560 glue on all my eyebolts from now on. Don't know why I didn't already. I use it for most everything already.

  Boy, your Connie looks good.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, February 7, 2018 9:47 PM

Tks Gene, I am with you, anything smaller than 1/96 and my arthritic digits and eyes dont like it. Wish there was some larger than 1/96 plastic ship kits available. 

I tested some of that 560 glue on several eyebolts. Let them sit overnight, unless you want to do damage there not coming out. I like that it left no signs of gluing around them. I am planning on using it more myself. It cleans up so easily. 

My BlueJacket Connie manual and blueprints came several days ago. Wow is that quit the project to build, do not think I will be doing one of them anytime soon. The manual has a lot of very interesting historical data and claims that BlueJackets Connie is in the 1812 configuration. I can see where the large blue prints of rigging are going to be a lot of help.  I will be off Fri,Sat and Sun. will get a good bit done on the spardeck. I did get the life boats and cradles built. Did a mock setup of cannons and the boats, I think it looks good. Will post more pics soon.     Dale

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, February 8, 2018 4:10 AM

wonder where the military terminology head came from  Big Smile

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:11 AM

LIVIT

 

My BlueJacket Connie manual and blueprints came several days ago. Wow is that quit the project to build, do not think I will be doing one of them anytime soon. The manual has a lot of very interesting historical data and claims that BlueJackets Connie is in the 1812 configuration.      Dale

 

 

Dale, you may have noticed my post to David's Cutty Sark thread about how I got so involved in Research that I never built my CS. The Blue Jacket Connie could end up being a life time build; but so could a Revell Connie. That is why I am going to attempt to do a simple OOB build with minimal research. I might even have time for some other builds before I retire from the hobby!

I find it interesting that that Blue Jacket calls their Connie "the 1812 configuration". The "the" should read "a"; because the configuration may have changed daily. Unless you can nail down a specific point in time with a dated painting or description there is no way of knowing the configuration on any given day. It just depends!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, February 8, 2018 4:18 PM

ShipWreck, I have done that same research as you with some of my RC Warbirds. Later in my building I got into doing my markings etc.. as to what I liked and not  historically correct. Your correct I should of said "A possible 1812 configuration"  I have noticed a good bit of conflicting information on the Connie and read numerous discussions about same. I am for sure building my Connie in a early 1800's "LIVIT" configuration. 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, February 8, 2018 5:42 PM
Dale, you are good. It is BlueJacket that seems to be making an all inclusive 1812 claim.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 11, 2018 9:49 AM

Over the past couple of days I got some of the spardeck details done. Also built the Captains skiff and 3 others

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 11, 2018 9:52 AM

I did a mock setup.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 11, 2018 10:27 AM

After doing the mock setup several things I could use some advise on.

Eyebolt orientation: for the eyebolts used to lash down the Captains skiff and the 3 other small boats. Should the eyebolt eye be orientated port to starboard or fore to aft ?

Gunports: should the inside of port be same color as hull or interior. IE on my build black or white ?

Cannons: in the mock setup pics you can see on the foredeck 6 cannons and 8 gunports with eyebolts installed, did I miss something ?

Chase guns: kit comes with 1 but I keep coming across documentation referring to chase guns not chase gun. Should there be at least 1 more ?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:24 AM

What we model as an eyebolt was usually a ringbolt.

If you mean the inside of the gunport lids, the ones I've seen are the same color of the inside of the bulwarks. Or I suppose they could be natural.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:02 PM

Dale, it really looks good. I would do white on the inside gunport lid, match bulwark. I really like the deck. I am not unhappy with my kit decks on the Kearsarge & Alabama. They are a lot dirtier looking. I do like the Scaledeck way better than the other one from HisModel. They show too muck grain color, even on their light one. 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, February 12, 2018 11:23 AM

Dale,

Your Connie looks great!  I am very impressed with what you have done.

Bill

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM

Not sure about ringbolt orientation for the ship's boats but this image I found on the 'net shows some of them oriented fore/aft.

Good work so far. I'll surely be following along.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/ec/e5/89/top-deck.jpg

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, February 12, 2018 2:18 PM

 

 

Here is another fore/aft orientation

 

 consttour8 by Benjamin Zabriskie, on Flickr

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, February 12, 2018 9:52 PM

Tks Bill, it has been a real learning experience ! I have already learned of many things I will do differently when I do my serious Connie build and others. I am going over to visit with Gene thursday and taking Connie with me. Gene is going to show me some rigging tricks and critic my build so far :)  I am looking forward to this and seeing his impressive builds up close.

Ben & Mike, tks guys ! Your pics are a great help.  From what I can see in your pics and others is that all the eyebolts use that fore/aft orientation. I have already installed all my eyebolts for the spardeck cannons and realize I installed them in the wrong orientation. Not going to try and change them now. Something else learned for future builds. I had thought that eyebolts would of been orientated according to direction of the most force on them.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, February 12, 2018 9:56 PM

GMorrison

What we model as an eyebolt was usually a ringbolt.

If you mean the inside of the gunport lids, the ones I've seen are the same color of the inside of the bulwarks. Or I suppose they could be natural.

 Tks, I had seen them on other models in red or another color and was wondering if there was a reason for this or that the modeller had just done so for affect. So am I correct in my asumption that the eye/ringbolts are all orientated fore/aft ?

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 2:06 PM

Made some progress on getting swivel guns tied in. Mounted a few of the pinrails. Those belaying pins are rather thin, I am concerned with how well there going to hold. I am working on doing some kind of a rack to display cannon balls on.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 18, 2018 7:09 PM

Got to visit with Gene1 and his lovely wife. Gene's builds are even more impressive up close. I did learn some things. It was hard not to drool on any of his ship or plane models. Looking forward to our next visit. 

I have decided to yet again upgrade my build from the OOB stuff. As I previously mentioned, I was concerned about the strength of the belaying pins. I am replacing all mine with some AM pins from model expo. I might have to replace the pin rails too, which is no problem, I already have some plastic strips I had purchased for my cannon ball racks. They are just a bit thicker than the OOB rails.

I also decided to do more realistic shrouds, ratlines, deadeyes and chain board. Not sure if chain board is the right term here, what I am referring to is the board the shroud lines bottom deadeye attach too. My question here is, did the Constitution actually use chain from the base of this board to the hull ?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 18, 2018 7:59 PM

They are called channels, which seems to be a conjunction of chain and wale.

On Constitution they look like iron bars with a fitting on the top to connect to the deadeye strop, and a flange on the bottom to be bolted to the hull.

Because the shroud and the bar at an angle, the force on the channel is all compression into the hull. 

On a model, unless you really modify the “chains” it’s all on the channel to hull connection. Granted it’s nothing like the force of a set of sails, but having those things pop off is a disappointment.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:42 PM

Thanks, you sure are helping me learn correct terminology.  I can see the need to pin the channels in then too. That would really be a mess if they came loose. I might just make new channels out of a bit thicker stock plastic strip. I will have to brainstorm on how to make a good example of those iron bars.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:33 PM

LIVIT

I have decided to yet again upgrade my build from the OOB stuff. As I previously mentioned, I was concerned about the strength of the belaying pins. I am replacing all mine with some AM pins from model expo. I might have to replace the pin rails too, which is no problem, I already have some plastic strips I had purchased for my cannon ball racks. They are just a bit thicker than the OOB rails.

I also decided to do more realistic shrouds, ratlines, deadeyes and chain board. Not sure if chain board is the right term here, what I am referring to is the board the shroud lines bottom deadeye attach too. My question here is, did the Constitution actually use chain from the base of this board to the hull ?

Sounds ambitious Dale. I may catch up to you yet, if I can get started. It seems that my start date will be moved back several months because it looks like we will be moving! At this time I am cleaning up extensive flash on the hull.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 6:52 PM

  Dale ,  The main thing I do with channels ( I have heard them called shroud tables) is to make sure you have a plastic to plastic glue joint, that means NO paint. I glue them on before I paint with AC. ( or CA) 

   I wonder if you used a very thin copper wire to wrap the bottom deadeye & drill the channel & glue the deadeye copper into the channel. Then use a piece of flat brass for your chain. You could stiffen small chain with CA & use it, if it was a chain that was used. The deadeye copper wire could come slightly below the channel for strength & be hidden by the chain. These are just thoughts as I have never done it this way. 

  When I did it , it was on a wood model.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:49 PM

I wish it was a chain on the Connie, would be much easier to do.  I was thinking about stroping the deadeye with blackened copper wire and seeing how that looks. I am going to pin the channels. I am going to mark out the glue line and clean the paint off the hull. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:52 PM

I got all the spardeck guns tied and glued in place. Working on cannon ball racks now.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:13 AM

LIVIT

 I am going to mark out the glue line and clean the paint off the hull. 

Dale, I think you definitely need to scrap off the paint in order to get a good bond on those channels. Gene1 had it nailed: "The main thing I do with channels ( I have heard them called shroud tables) is to make sure you have a plastic to plastic glue joint, that means NO paint. I glue them on before I paint with AC. ( or CA)." I plane on glueing on the channels before I paint the hull. They will be glued on with liquid glue reinforced with CA and possibly a laser bond.

I have noticed that is was common for period ships with outside channels to have braces between the channels and the hull. I have not been able to find any evidence of any braces on old photos of the Constitution. One way of achieving this on the Connie, without braces, is to lay a thin piece of stretched sprue along the join of the channel to hull and melt it in with solvent.

Just thinking it through! Dale, she is really shaping up nicely.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:13 AM

Tks much guys for the help ! This has/is a learning experience. During my Visit with Gene1 I did learn some things I wish that had knew at start of my build. Mostly my base and wish I had known about pinning before assembling hull. But even with that, Gene thought I had done a nice clean build, that to me is a big compliment from a master builder !

I got 3/16 belaying pins from model expo, there too small. I have 1/4 on the way. Along with them I have a couple different size wood deadeyes coming. I will for sure be using the pins, still not sure about doing the deadeyes. It might be more than I am capable of achieving yet. Also have some 3mm cannonballs for the cannonades coming in order from expo.

I did get the suggested book by George Biddlecombe "The Art of Rigging" looks to be a very interesting and informative read.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Friday, February 23, 2018 7:56 AM

Great discussion and photos!

The Revell 1/96 Constitution is probably my favorite model kit.

The Revell Constitition I currently have is the second of two I have built in the course of 40 years.  The first was lost many years ago and I built the present model nearly 20 years ago.  Portions of it are now being reconstructed, re-rigged and repainted based on new research and some of the tips talked about here.

The first Revell Constitution I built was a birthday gift from my late father back in 1976.  I feel close to him as I work on this second model. 

The present model was orignally painted according to either Revell's instructions or how the Smithsonian's 1/48 scale model is painted (red ochre gunwales, white lower masts and mast bands, varnished wood yards, gold moldings on peak and transom). 

The new colors are very different.  They are a hybrid of those shown on the Hull Model (red transom details, green gunwales, rails and moldings, etc.) and colors depicted in 1812-1813 paintings done by Corne and his assistant George Ropes (buff gun stripe and lower masts, black mast bands and yards, white moldings on peak, galleries and transom, red window framing, etc.).  The colors I chose may not be accurate but I like them.

Aftermarket possibilites are much better now.  Had the aftermarket wood deck been available when I built the model, I would have used it.  Some of the kit's parts are being replaced with 3D-printed products such as accurate Columbia Iron Works 1808-pattern carronades, ship's wheel and upper and lower capstans.  Although more accurate 3D-printed Cecil 1808-pattern 24-pounder cannons are available, the model is too far along to replace those kit parts, sadly.  I'll be designing more 3D-printed parts for the model soon.  I'd like to design more accurate and better detailed ship's boats for 3D-printing. The kit's plastic blocks are being replaced with wood blocks from Syren Ship Model Company (very nice).

Hope all of you are enjoying your builds very much.

Thanks for the terrific discussion!

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Friday, February 23, 2018 8:09 AM

Hi fellow NC'er and welcome to the forum Steve. Thanks for the compliments.  I already checked out your website and will be ordering a few things (ships wheel for sure) from you, Very nice looking items at a very reasonable price. I totally agree Syren has great products, I am very impressed with the rigging line I got from them. Once you know which size blocks and quantities needed, I and I am sure others would appreciate you posting what you found was needed..... Dale

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Friday, February 23, 2018 8:30 AM

Sure will, Dale!  Likewise, as you find stuff, please post!

I am learning much from you and others here.   Please keep up the great discussion!

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, February 26, 2018 12:10 PM

FYI, I just received this email from Falkonet; a Russian supplier that are distributing through Model Expo It may be of interest to some of you!

 

http://modelexpo-online.com/Falkonet--F20B2--Double-Block-2mm-Pear-Wood--Pack-of-10-pcs-_p_1922.html

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Monday, February 26, 2018 12:38 PM

I had also recieved that ad and was looking it over when I seen your post. It looks to be very good quality at a more than reasonable price if it is of the quality being claimed. I am going to order a few different sized blocks. Will let yall know how it is.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 8:39 AM

Dale,

Have you considered the aftermarket products for this kit offered by HiSModel in Czechoslavakia?  Radek makes outstanding sails, blocks, flags, and other products that you might find helpful.  He primarily sells through an EBay store but also has his own website.  Check him out.

Bill

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 8:00 PM

Hi Bill, I have seen the HiS ads, but have not ever checked any of it out. I will for sure do so now at your suggestion.

Got the 1/4" oak belaying pins, they are the right length and do look like mini pins, but are too thick and to me just do not look right. So I now have around 150 belaying pins of different sizes for future builds. Do believe going with 1/4" metal will be the ticket.

The deadeyes I got from model expo look great, but the holes in them are not going to be even close enough to the right size for the appropriate size line. Not sure if there is enough space between holes to enlarge enough without holes joining.

I might take a few weeks break from this build and work on one of many other models or RC boat/plane. I am feeling a bit frustrated with trying to find the right stuff to continue my build. Think I will start on my 1/16 Wright flyer, do some wood work, thats more familiar to me.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 10:48 AM

My sabbatical is over, back to the build. I had an order from Model Expo come in. The Falkonet 5mm deadeyes are a waste of time. The 3 lanyard line holes are the same size as holes in the 3.5mm Model shipways deadeye and they cannot be enlarged due to them being to close to outer edge. Plus they actually do not look that great and are thinner than the smaller deadeyes from MS and will be a prob getting the metal strops to fit properly. 5mm deadeyes do appear to be the right fit though. I did get mantua part #42870 which is metal strop with a link and metal strap to attach to hull, that really look good and seem to be the right size. They are designed for 5mm deadeyes. So now I will wait for MS to have some walnut 5mm deadeyes in stock. Will advise on actually amount needed once I get to that part of the build.

I also got some 6mm white metal belaying pins that look alot better than the wood pins I previously ordered. They are about a third thinner, so should fit the pin and fife rails in kit perfectly. Just want to point out that the walnut pins I had previously gotten look great, there just too thick for the kits rails and that made them appear out of proportion. Now I have to find out how to paint white metal fittings. Suggestions please !

I did the forward port side stanchion for hammock drying like suggested in the RVL instructions. Which involves a very tedious wrapping of 3 lines to the inside and same to outside. End result looked more like a rope walkway than a place to dry out hammocks and kits. I got some netting from MS #2828. That looks great, I know there has been a lot of discussion about these drying setups, some say netting others canvas and later models wood. I do not care if its not really correct, it looks alot better than what RVL suggests. Will post weekends progress soon..... Dale

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:45 PM

can I ask where you got those belaying pins mate , would like to have a look at them please . steve5

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:22 PM

Steve here ya go bud  http://modelexpo-online.com/MS2999B-14-LONG-65MM-WHITE-METAL-BELAYING-PINS--FOR-SCALES-175-AND-UP-150PK_p_1353.html might have to cut down the length a touch.

 

PS there on sale too 150 for 9.99

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:28 PM

I will post some pics here shortly on all those items so you guys can see what I am talking about. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Saturday, March 10, 2018 5:38 PM

The brass strap comes in different lengths, going to measure them tonite. This strop (top left) is for 5mm deadeye.

Deadeye to left is the MS 4mm to right is the Falkonet 5mm. The holes are almost into the channel the strop fits in on the Falkonet.

Hard to see in pic, but the white metal 6mm belay pin has around 1/3-1/4 thinner pin. If your making pin or fife rails and make them a bit wider than the kits, then the wood belay pins would look good.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:06 PM

Dale , do they still make or sell brass belaying pins? I used a lot of them years ago. They are treally nice. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 1:29 AM

Gene, yes they do. I have some 5mm brass pins, but they are a bit too small. I have yet to find any 6mm brass pins, that is what I would rather have than the wood or white metal. 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 6:46 AM

Dale, try BlueJacket; they have .25" or 6.35 mm belaying pins part number FO119. That is .35 mm longer than the kit pins; but you will not see the difference. The problem is that they are pricey at $8 per dozen (I suspect that the listed price may be wrong).

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:30 AM
I just called BlueJacket. The $8 price for the .25" pins is wrong: it S/B $4.25 per dozen!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:49 AM

Thanks my friend. I was doing the math at the first price and it was like $80 in just pins. I can handle $40 or so. That is to replace all the pins on kits pin rails and fife rails, thing is you dont actually even use them all.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Friday, March 16, 2018 4:28 PM

Dale, what are you doing on your Connie now. I keep  looking at them & a new one is down to $68 shipped. They have a bunch on ebay, all new & at cheaper prices. These are made in China. I thought the new ones were made in Germany, or is that just the USS United States?

    I would probably get one, but it is sort of dumb for me to have more than a years supply, & that is what I have, plus. Anxious to see more of your pictures after seeing the real thing you are building. It really looks good.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, March 18, 2018 11:19 PM

Hi Gene, thanks. I have not done a whole lot more since you seen it. Do have all the spardeck guns actually glued and tied in place now.  Trying to find the right size deadeyes with holes big enough to allow for the right size line has been an issue.  I should of planned this before gluing hull halves together. The pins that hold the chain link straps in place, that I found would work need to be pushed through hull. The pins are like cotter pins where you can seperate into 2 halves after pushing through hull and bend in opposite directions. This along with gluing will assure holding the chainplates and deadeyes in place. Just gluing is not goint to suffice, if any pressure is put on the same.

Also I had someone steal several items from my mailbox equalling to about $130, so that kinda put a cloud on my building mood this past week.

I am going to be off mon & tues and hope to make some more progress on the netting mounted to my stanchions for drying hammocks and kits.

I have really been looking over the BlueJacket Constitution manual and plans. I previously had only glanced at them, now wish I had really read all the manual and looked closely at the plans.  I suggest to anyone who is wanting to do a bit more and beyond than a OOB build to get that manual and plans and scrutinize them well. I would not be having the issues I am now if I had.

ShipWreck got me looking and BlueJacket has all the deadeyes etc at what should be the right size. Just refer to the plans and numbers on parts list and you can order about anything off the parts list. One of those "gray moments" I am sure it will not be the last.  

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, March 18, 2018 11:28 PM

As mentioned in my previous post I had items stolen from my mailbox. One of the items was the FSM 10 yr collection 2009-2017. For the police report I had to contact kalmbach publishing to find the true value since I had gotten it on a special deal. I was also going to re-order. The Lady I spoke too was not only very pleasant but she shipped me out a new order for free ! This really surprised me. So Kudos to FSM magazine and Kalmbach publishing you got my business forever.   Dale

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, March 7, 2019 8:26 AM

I am back, after long hiatus due to medical reasons and some other things in life that kept me away. 

Just started working on my Connie again a few days ago. Had to get the dust off and get all my tools and goodies organized. 

Got boats lashed too deck, working on stanchions, trying to decide if I want to use thread or netting for them.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, March 7, 2019 8:49 AM
Welcome back Dale. I was wondering if you fell off the edge of the earth. Almost called out some St. Bernards to rescue you! I am working on the cannons at this point with couple hundred hours into the project. I did not know that you were facing medical issues when you signed out last year. I hop you are all recovered and ready to go.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, March 7, 2019 9:07 AM

Thanks my friend. Got abducted by aliens, but they decided I was more than they wanted to deal with :)  I am ok, just have to learn how to do things a bit differently now. Need to catch up with all the builds and my friends on here. I see some very nice new builds of Connies going and some old builds being worked on again. 

  • Member since
    March 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Thursday, March 7, 2019 9:30 AM

Glad you are back and hope to see more posts of your Connie.  Watching with earnest.

Bob

 

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current builds:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution with extensive scratch building

  • Member since
    July 2006
Posted by Michael D. on Thursday, March 7, 2019 9:33 AM

Glad to have you back DaleYes, looking forward to seeing some updated pics , my Connie looks really crude compared to what you and others are curently building.

 

Michael D.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:12 AM
Dale, these days there are Connies galore. My project is to build OOB; or I will never complete it, or any other boxes laying around! Yesterday I had the opportunity to visit an urgent care facility. The nurse commented, as we get older we get slower but we keep moving. I guess she meant the option is not so good.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Kinetic 1/48 YF-104A 5+2957

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:42 AM

Thanks guys, all your builds are looking great.

I have also decided to go back too more of a oob again. But will suggest to anyone building this or any revell kit, Do not use the included eyebolts, get some made of brass, worth the monies. You will need 2 sizes. Those included in kit, bend and break very easily. 

I blackened mine using "Birchwood Casey gun black" then glued them in using "Formula 560 canopy glue" it leaves no signs of being glued. It also glues painted parts together with no need to clean paint from glued area. One of the best glues I have ever used.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Asheville, NC
Posted by LIVIT on Sunday, March 10, 2019 4:36 PM

The past few days I have spent, tying down the four boats to spar deck, one additional eyebolt needs added here to make the small boat look properly secured to larger boat it is set inverted on. Got all those stanchions mounted to the bases, they are very easily broken, glad kit has extras, I also coated them with Formula 560, made a big difference in them not being so flimsy and brittle. Now I have to mount and try netting them or running ropes.

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