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Changing the ship name and number

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  • Member since
    September, 2018
Changing the ship name and number
Posted by Kodiak Dave on Monday, September 10, 2018 7:52 PM

 

I just purchased a Hasegawa 1/350 U.S. Navy escort carrier CVE-73 Gambia Bay model.

 

It is a Casablanca Class CVE and I would like to change it to the USS Roi CVE-103 (also a Casablanca Class).  My father served on her from commissioning to the end of the war.

 

Any suggestions?

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:29 PM

Hi,

I guess a good starting point would be to look over the internet and any books and photos that you can find to see what the ship looked like at different times in her career.  There are some sites on the internet that give info on the different camoflage patterns used on these type ships during the war, like the ones at these links

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cve.htm

http://www.usndazzle.com/designs.php?category=1&class=2

For instance, at these sites it indicates that the CVE 103 spent part of the war in the following camoflage.

MS 32 16A

The next thing I would do is then try and figure out what her deck and hull marking looked like.  I believe that there are some places on the internet where you can get standard USN number decals in the right size for your kit (such as Hawk Graphics etc).

As for the name though, I'm not sure what to do, as any lettering would likely be very small in the scale of your kit.

Hope this helps.

Pat

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:42 PM

Typically the ships name was painted out in wartime to be the hull color.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:41 PM

Compare photos and any plans of the two ships. Just because they are part of the same class does not make them identical. Look for any areas that you may need to alter from one to the other. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:59 PM

PFJN

The next thing I would do is then try and figure out what her deck and hull marking looked like.  I believe that there are some places on the internet where you can get standard USN number decals in the right size for your kit (such as Hawk Graphics etc).

I spoke with Darren of Hawk Graphics last month at the IPMS Nats.  His operation are 'paused' -- life sometimes gets in the way of things.

Iron Shipwright does offer a set of WWII numeral decals 

Check ironshipwrights.com/accessories.html    These would be the appropriate bow and stern hull numbers.  Shaded numbers are a pre-war and post-war thing.  

There is a photo on Navsource of the Roi, either late-war or early post-war in Measure 21 with a white 103 on the bow.   Measure 21 at this time was either 5N Navy Blue or Navy Gray 

If you go to Navsource for the Attu (CVE-102)  http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/102.htm you will find a photo of the deck markings bow and stern.   It would be a good assumption that the Roi was also so marked.   I know of no available deck decals at this time.  Your solution may be to make masks and paint

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 4:18 PM

A pretty good book would be Squadron/ Signal's Warship Number 9 "Escort Carriers in Action".

Pages 38 and 39 show CVE's 94, 95, 101, 102 and 104. Alas no 103. But there are a number of good photos there.

USS Roi was in Carrier Transport Squadron, Pacific. According to the book, so was CVE-104 USS Munda.

104 has a large derrick rigged against the front of her island, although that's not apparent in the views of 103. Certainly it must have been for aircraft handling at destination ports. She also has her hull number painted on the island, more usual for post war.

Here's a useful site if you don't have it already:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/camouflage_database.htm

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by Kodiak Dave on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:14 PM

I have that publication on order.  I have found a few pictures of the Roi on line. I have also found an old roll of black and white negatives that my dad took at sea while on the ship. They are pretty cool, although some of the negatives are not in the best of shape after 70 + years. I'll get them printed and see what I can see.

Thanks to everyone for the help. Just getting back into modeling after many years away.  Now the kids are on their own, and I am now gainfully unemployed (retired). 

Other projects for the future is tuning the USS Lexington (1/350 Trumpeter) into how it was in 1940 to early 1941. Again, a ship my dad was on at that time.  He transferred out to go to aerographer's school.  Good timing.

Thanks again for all the help and sources. 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:43 PM

This gets more interesting by the minute, sir. Those photos are kind of "priceless".

If there is any way you feel comfortable sharing them, people like Ed Grune, Tracy White, Bill Morrison or even little old me would really like to see them.

As for CV-2, well that would be an incredible piece of USN history. There are quite a few good books on the subject. There are some conversion kits for her prior to the rebuild, good news is that the air wings were "modern". F2A-1s, SBDs and TBDs.

 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by Surface_Line on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 1:54 AM

Admittedly, sister ships have differences, but this CVE class was very common in their appearances.  Your easiest references on the web are at navsource.org.  Look at the photos for Roi (the few that are there) and for Gambier Bay and I don't think you will pick out any differences besides the camouflage described above.

Good luck,
Rick

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by Kodiak Dave on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 4:13 AM
No Problem,
I'll be taking the film of the Roi to Costco in a week or two (taking care of wife's medical issues first) to have it printed and when I do I'll send them along. I have no idea how they will turn out.
I remember my dad telling me about his time on the Lex. They had F2A-1 Buffalos and he said that often when they would land the landing gear would collaps and they would just shove the plane over the side.  It was not a popular plane.
Dave
  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:35 AM

Hi;

 Gotta say . Whatta find . Actual photos . I do hope as others have asked , that you'll share them . I like those little Bird -Farms . T.B.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:21 PM

Definitely dig into it--I have this vague rememory that the "big" carriers were authorized 48" tall hull numbers, the smaller & "Jeeps" were 36" and the rest of the fleet used 24"

But, that could be fickle memory, and not fact.

36" at 1/700 is 0.015" (1.3mm) tall.

You can be forgiven (unless there are rivet counters afoot Smile) for putting the ship's name on the stern, particularly when it's meant for a former sailor.  Doing so in black at least gives a nod to the "paint it over" rules of WWII.

Hull numbers are picked out on the hull using 12" lengths of welding bead to define the edges of the numerals.  Prewar ships with 96" or 72" numbers would get a second set of welds laid in. 

Ship's names often had all the latters lines out in weld bead, which, in the right light might appear as a black "shadow" on the stern.

On thing, at 1/700, there's not going to be a lot of chromic difference between the Deck Blue paint, and the 20B Blue flightdeck stain.  You may have to "play" with those (in teeny tiny touches) to get a little bit of distinction.  "Scale Effect" will not be your friend here, and some artistic license must needs be invoked.

At 1/700, a 12" viewing distance is equal to 700' (215m) distance, which would blend colors together as they faded in intensity to the viewer (in real life).  But, people will probably lean in close to a model, so, havign the fight deck "scan" as different from the metal-decked catwalks will improve the model overall.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:29 PM

Good question about the numbers. They look really small in photos. I would not be surprised if they are 24".

A CTS ship can be a lot of fun. I've seen them with an R4D or two, RC-45Js, and of course another fav. is the AAF P-38.

Scale effect is important. I've painted a number of smaller ships like DDs and DEs in Measure 21, and they look like, well, a blue ship.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 13, 2018 10:25 AM

This photo from Navsource shows her "1945-1946". Certainly the number didn't get smaller after the war, so I'd assume this was the wartime number.

The deck is a max 22 feet wide. The splinter screen on that 5" gun might be four or five feet tall.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, September 17, 2018 10:00 AM

Kodiak Dave ;

 Did you know there is an old sailors tale ." If you change a ships name .You are basically dooming her to a bad fate ? " I know of a few that did follow in the " Bad " sides of the fate Book .The U.S.S. Lafayette ( Formaly the Normandie )an example . And there are stories of many Lakes freightere that fell on bad times after being re-named . 

 It's a wives tale with some bite in superstition though .

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, September 17, 2018 7:57 PM

Tanker - Builder
It's a wives tale with some bite in superstition though

And sailors are a rightfully supertitious lot.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 4:29 PM

HMS Frisky- Ocean going tug launched in 1919.

Sold in 1930 to Foundation Maritime, renamed Foundation Franklin.

Operated as a salvage tug 1931-1949.

Scrapped 1950.

All in all a very successful career.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, September 27, 2018 6:20 AM

Oh my " G " !

     That's a pretty Bell . Our Museum just bought an old Bell from a M.K.T ( Missouri , Kansas Texas R.R. ) Hudson type engine . Extremely rare . We are going to build a stand for it . Like ship's bells they are rare and expensive .Only with trains there is , except the Victories , not many of the old bells around .  T.B.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, September 27, 2018 6:22 AM

Yeah ! 

 I always was on guard from the Kraken that would snatch out poor little Destroyer from the surface and drag us to " Davey Jones's Locker " . T.B.

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