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paint color difrences among diffrent navy,s

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  • Member since
    January, 2011
paint color difrences among diffrent navy,s
Posted by tom saunders on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 9:17 AM

i'm building trumpeters 1/200 bismark and after that is compleet i am going to build the hood . i use model  master enamels .  i've heard the hull paint called anti fouling  but trumpeters paint guide calls for a shade of brown for this lower part of the hull? are the colors the same for both ships ? are the grey's the same ? i am not going for the camo pattern because i do not think i will be able to do straight angles through the super structure of the bismark .  so what do you  all think any diffrences in the greys used by the diffrent navy's  . and what about the deck wood  any  ideas? thank's for your help

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:02 AM

Hi Tom,

Disregard the Trumpeter instructions. Those are not reliable, and Trumpeters in particular including their illustrations. While there are a number of reasons, since the accurate information is available, use that.

Anti-fouling is a range of colors. While there is some similarity within navies as they used the same shipyards for both construction and maintenance, even there you see variation.

I've tried everything from boxcar red (brown oxide) to bright red. This is one area where I think spray can paint is useable. It's a lot of area with a uniform finish. I think smaller ships (corvettes and destroyers) look good with brighter red, larger ships look better with dull red. I've seen specific color call outs for Bismark, other ships tend to get a more general description.

Each Navy has it's own color system. Each is different. This is where some research will help your model to b something special.

I think the best place to start is here: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/

Go straight to paint chips to see the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine colors. Hood is covered in Royal Navy Set #1. Bismark is covered in Kriegsmarine Set #1.

Here's a source for Hood: 

http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/models/tips/hoodpaint.htm

Modelmaster sells 507A Dark Gray.

Here's a source for Bismark:

https://www.bismarck-class.dk/paint_schemes/introduction.html

RAL 7000, 7001 and 7024 are available from White Ensign or other sources. I don't know about Modelmaster, but you should look it up.

Both ships had natural wood decks. Tamiya Deck Tan is a good place to start.

Certain areas which were steel or a composite are in other colors. Try to find diagrams. These include horizontal steel surfaces and some of the bridge decks.

I hope this is helpful. Have fun!

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 12:28 PM

Hi,

I think GMorrison has summed up stuff very well here.  The only thing that I would add is that sometimes colors will also vary a bit over time and/or look a little different in different lighting.  In addition, depending on the scale of your build some specific colors may either seem a little too dark or too light, eventhough they were mixed to match the specific colors used on the actual ship.

So sometimes getting something that looks good and is close to what the ship seems to have looked like may be better than trying to exactly match a specific color formulation.

Best of luck with your build.

PF

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 4:33 PM

Anti fouling paint used by the Kriegsmarine was black. You see this paint specially on the Uboat teak decks painted with this paint that eventually turned dark grayish from the elements.

Do yourself a huge favor and don’t follow the kit’s color call outs, for the most part they are incorrect. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 12:43 AM

tom saunders

i'm building trumpeters 1/200 bismark and after that is compleet i am going to build the hood . i use model  master enamels .  i've heard the hull paint called anti fouling  but trumpeters paint guide calls for a shade of brown for this lower part of the hull? are the colors the same for both ships ? are the grey's the same ? i am not going for the camo pattern because i do not think i will be able to do straight angles through the super structure of the bismark .  so what do you  all think any diffrences in the greys used by the diffrent navy's  . and what about the deck wood  any  ideas? thank's for your help

 

Tom,

I’ve been switching my paints to ColourCoats enamels for the last couple of years. The colors have been thoroughly researched and are spot on in my humble opinion. They make paints for WW2 ships, planes and armor. I highly recommend using their thinner as it is formulated for their paints. Here’s a link to Sovereign Hobbies which sells the ColourCoats enamel paints in Great Britain and Europe. They have been putting theater color sets together that helps. This has all the colors you will need on the Bismarck on her final sortie, although I would recommend tripling the amounts they recommend due to the size of the 1/200 ships.

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/colourcoats-coloursets/products/dkm-bismarck-colourset

 

Here’s the link for the Hood‘s colors on during her last engagement 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/colourcoats-coloursets/products/1941-home-fleet-colourset?variant=12905783812

You’ll want to add Teak for the decks and Corticene. The paints come in small tins but you’ll be amazed how far they go with their thinner, which I highly recommend using with their paints.

However, if you live in the States, you will have to buy from H&B Hobbies here:

https://www.hbhobbies.com/pages/colourcoats

Their customer service is first rate and I have ordered from them numerous times and have never had an issue.

On the color of the antifouling colors, I have to respectfully disagree somewhat with Plastic Junkie, the Kriegsmarine actually used two colors for the their anti-fouling paints. On the larger ships they would use:

Colourcoats KM04 - Schiffbodenfarbe III Rot 5, which a Brownish Red 

and on smaller ships and boats, such as the Schnellboots, they used:

Colourcoats KM05 - Schiffbodenfarbe III Grau I, which is a really Dark Gray.

I hope this helps,

Steve

 

       

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, November 02, 2018 5:35 PM

Research (and color images) are your best bet.

Occasionally you will see references to "red lead" as bottom paint.  This is ont entirely accurate.  Red Lead is more properly the iron oxide with lead salts paint used as a primer.  Bottom paint is typically infused with copper compunds which interfere with the ability of sealife to adhere to a ship.  Copper compounds were initially used as it was deadly to the dread Teredo seaworm, which could riddle a wooden hull in just a season.All steel construction decreased the reisk from Teredo, but keeping barancles and the like off the hull is a positve benefit.

There was experimentation with just what went into antifouling bottom paint.  The Italians famously used a green bottom paint for a while (this causes endless debates for sthose mmodeling Italian warships).

Since the '60s antifouling "bottom" paint is available in all the colors of the rainbow.  Pale blue, oranges, lime green are just a few of the colors in modern use.

Humbrol's Track Colour was not a horrible color for very small scale (under 1/700) large ships, if a tad brown.  Floquil's Plum equally mixed with Santa Fe Red was pretty good for wartime IJN hull bottoms.  Rustoleum "Primer Red" has been a really good start for USN hull bottoms--if needing decanting and a base primer coat.

Ship painting is complicated.  USN used over a dozen different colors in just WWII.  IJN had several schemes, and also used a russet linoleum over its steel decks (mostly) to confound ship modelers ever since.  The Royal Navy had a number of schemes, typically specific to a given patrol area.

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, November 02, 2018 8:46 PM

Steve 

You are correct about the 2 colors used by the Kriegsmarine. I dug out my info and rechecked since I was going on memory on this. The Schiffsbodenfarbe Grau looked black and is described in some reference materials as such. The brown red antifouling paint was used  on later S boote.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 02, 2018 9:27 PM

It was also the bottom color of the big surface ships, case in point the Bismarck per the OP.

it is a fact that Germany pretty much fought most of WW2 with 19th century technology.

Bismark must have been the last battleship sunk by naval gun fire.

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, November 02, 2018 10:33 PM

plasticjunkie

Steve 

You are correct about the 2 colors used by the Kriegsmarine. I dug out my info and rechecked since I was going on memory on this. The Schiffsbodenfarbe Grau looked black and is described in some reference materials as such. The brown red antifouling paint was used  on later S boote.

 

 

PJ,

I didn’t mean to contradict you and hopefully I didn’t offend you. I just happened to be doing research for my Revell 1/72 S-100 class Schnellboote with the FlakVierling38 and came across the same conundrum of whether to paint it Black (great name for a song by the way) or a REALLY Dark Gray or the Brownish Red Schiffsbodenfarbe Rot. I also have to say that your memory is a whole lot better than mine, I had to look it up!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, November 02, 2018 10:34 PM

GMorrison

It was also the bottom color of the big surface ships, case in point the Bismarck per the OP.

it is a fact that Germany pretty much fought most of WW2 with 19th century technology.

Bismark must have been the last battleship sunk by naval gun fire.

 

So, the anti-fouling paint on the Bismarck was the Dark Gray?

       

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 02, 2018 11:36 PM

No, sorry to confuse. It was red.

 

  • Member since
    July, 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Friday, November 02, 2018 11:57 PM

No problem, I’m easily confused. 

S

       

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Saturday, November 03, 2018 8:57 AM

No offense taken Steve. We come here to learn from each other and it’s great to exchange info and ideas. What I often see are modelers hitting a brick wall when they ask for the “correct” shade of a particular color. For me most of the time I approximate the shade and go with it.

And yes that  Stones song is a great one but a bit dark, no pun intended.Wink 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

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