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REVELL PT-109 1/72 scale

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  • Member since
    October, 2016
REVELL PT-109 1/72 scale
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, November 03, 2018 5:18 PM

Looking for anyone who has done one of these.  My wife gave me this almost a year ago and just opened it.  Seems very simple and much a beginners kit.  It doesnt seem too "grown up", but I have to do it and will take the opportunity to practicle on bigger items - scale wise that is.  Tips please - the plastic seems to be of a different caliber, composition, not sure what, than others ive worked on. Looks shiney so ill wash it 1st.   Anyhow, the pieces seems also to be rough and lots of remenants aroud the pieces.  All this maybe due to being a less expensive kit???  Ive usually mostly primed my kits on the sprue but am thinking here because it looks like a lot of the pieces will have to be cleaned up that here i can get away with cutting, trimming them assembly then prime and paint.  Any thoughts?  Its not a lot of pieces total and bc of the large scale looks to be a way to go.  Thoughts?  Tks!

 

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, November 03, 2018 6:12 PM

parts washed and drying.  this is it - not much to it!

 

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, November 03, 2018 6:20 PM

Yes, I'd agree that assembling it and then painting it will be best.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, November 03, 2018 9:40 PM

You’re looking at a model which was newly released when John Kennedy was elected president.  The molds are hardly modern state of the art.  They are old & tired,  parts show a lot of flash or are polished smooth

The decks should not show raised planking.  The were smooth planks with a canvas coating for waterproofing.  The .50 calibers are somewhat clunky.  The best piece of armament may be the 20mm gun

Take your time. Scrape away the flash. Thin the depression railing on the gun tubs. Don’t get wrapped around the axle detailing the kit.   The 2018 release of the kit offers a couple of improvements but overall it still needs work

Oh, and BTW,  that new kit hasn’t seen wide release since Revell went bankrupt

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, November 04, 2018 6:13 AM

My take on paint then assemble, or assemble and paint- regardless of genre of model, I always find it is yes and yes.  That is, it is a mix.  If there are any seams that are not there on the real ship, these joints must be treated/smoothed after assembly. If there are no such seams, you can paint all parts on tree, then assemble, remembering to scrape away glue at joints.  But I find on most ship kits there are always some seams to fill.  So it becomes a paint, assembly, paint assemble, repeat.  Typical seams on ships are hull halves, deckhouse panel and roof seams.  Since that kit has a once piece hull, that eliminates one big seam, but there may be other subassemblies that will need treating seams.

I find every kit, even in same genre, is different.  My first step, before building, is to read and study instructions thoroughly, and analyze best order of painting and assembly, and make notes in instructions.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Sunday, November 04, 2018 12:45 PM

Ed - thanks for the info.  Gonna think on how to get rid of the seams the best way so its flush and even.  Also, what exacylt are you referring to when you mention depression railing - the 2 piece railing pieces for each tub or something else?

 

Don - tks too!!

 

Looking forward to practing some new skills!!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, November 04, 2018 1:38 PM

I built this about thirty years ago. It is a very basic kit, I wouldn't say "poor" and I'm not one to call things bad when they are just old. But it's really a after-school kit made for the model builder of about 1968.

IMO it's kind of like an older Monogram or Tamiya tank model. A lot of molded on detail that isn't particularily nice. Have you ever built the Monogram M48?

I'd paint it after assembly. pretty much all one color.

I'd also suggest looking for some books about the subject. That will teach you alot.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, November 04, 2018 5:50 PM

Building this as 109 is complicated.

First off, there's a ton of info out there, more than a lot of it contradictory.

So, you, as the modeler have to bone up on a lot of gouge just to know between the various options before starting.

Now, for 2¢ 109 at about time of loss is a horrible model subject.
For one, there were a bunch of ad hoc modifications with poor documentation at the time (or even now).   Things like whether or not you ought have the portside depthcharge mounted or not.  Whether the 37mm gun on the foredeck was an M1A antitakgun with or without its M3 mount; or if it was a coaxial mount scavenged from a P-39 AirCobra.  In case you needed more stuff, there's a huge debate out the mast on 109.  To top that off, pretty much everyone agrees 109 was painted, slopily, with brushes and mops, in some locally-acquired green paint. 

So, an accurate scale model of 109 is a monochrome green between pea soup and olive, over virtually every surface, with an unmaked waterline over a green gray, or red bottom, with some sort of gun out on the foredeck, mounting unknown.  No hull numbers, not that much distinctive at all.

Now, 109 in as delivered fit, might be easier, no changes to the weapons, probably gray with a blue-gray deck over probably either red or black bottom, with 12" tall hull numbers. 

Really, on of the 19's sisters might be easier, since you can pick a few reference photos, and model away.

Your mileage may vary.

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Friday, November 09, 2018 3:35 PM

GMorrison

I built this about thirty years ago. It is a very basic kit, I wouldn't say "poor" and I'm not one to call things bad when they are just old. But it's really a after-school kit made for the model builder of about 1968.

IMO it's kind of like an older Monogram or Tamiya tank model. A lot of molded on detail that isn't particularily nice. Have you ever built the Monogram M48?

I'd paint it after assembly. pretty much all one color.

I'd also suggest looking for some books about the subject. That will teach you alot.

 

havent done the M48.  Looks good though.  Paint to be done afterwards....  Already found a missing piece though - part of the stand.  Oh well......

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Friday, November 09, 2018 3:47 PM

CapnMac82

Building this as 109 is complicated.

First off, there's a ton of info out there, more than a lot of it contradictory.

So, you, as the modeler have to bone up on a lot of gouge just to know between the various options before starting.

Now, for 2¢ 109 at about time of loss is a horrible model subject.
For one, there were a bunch of ad hoc modifications with poor documentation at the time (or even now).   Things like whether or not you ought have the portside depthcharge mounted or not.  Whether the 37mm gun on the foredeck was an M1A antitakgun with or without its M3 mount; or if it was a coaxial mount scavenged from a P-39 AirCobra.  In case you needed more stuff, there's a huge debate out the mast on 109.  To top that off, pretty much everyone agrees 109 was painted, slopily, with brushes and mops, in some locally-acquired green paint. 

So, an accurate scale model of 109 is a monochrome green between pea soup and olive, over virtually every surface, with an unmaked waterline over a green gray, or red bottom, with some sort of gun out on the foredeck, mounting unknown.  No hull numbers, not that much distinctive at all.

Now, 109 in as delivered fit, might be easier, no changes to the weapons, probably gray with a blue-gray deck over probably either red or black bottom, with 12" tall hull numbers. 

Really, on of the 19's sisters might be easier, since you can pick a few reference photos, and model away.

Your mileage may vary.

 

 

yep.  tks.  a lot of info out there and a lot of hard to read photos.  gonna just roll with it and use it as a chance to practice priming and painting i guess.  gotta do it - a present from the wife from last year!!  tks

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Friday, November 09, 2018 9:14 PM

I have the gigantic motorized version and it is pretty well injected.  I no longer have the box..but I do have the hull and most of the parts........What to do with it?

 

Rob

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, November 17, 2018 6:06 PM

simple and basic - yes and yes.....  There's no legs for this poor gunner.  YIKES!!  Hmm

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Saturday, November 17, 2018 9:01 PM

Hi,

I built that kit decades ago when I was a teenager.  The one big issue that I had was keeping the deck glued to the hull.  It probably had a lot to do with my limited skills at the time, but I guess its something to be careful of, and take time to make sure that you have a good connections there for glueing.

PF

PS.  One of my embarassing weaknesses is that I have gotten hooked on some Japanese Cartoons/Anime.  In particular there is one called "Black Lagoon" that is supposed to be set in Thailand in the 1990s that centers around a small group of smugglers/gray-market couriers, who use an old PT boat.  In watching the episodes it looked to me like the animators had used an old PT109 kit as a basis of for their 3D model.  In addition, in a later episode they run afoul of another smuggler who operates a couple PBRs which looked reminded me of the old Tamiya kit.

One word of caution though about the cartoon is that the language is very coarse and alot of the action is way over the top (almost to the point of being corny), but it is a "guilty pleasure" of mine Stick out tongue and I have from time to time thought about maybe buying the old Revell PT boat model and doing it up as the boat from this series.

Black Lagoon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyIoeLF_jc

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Monday, November 19, 2018 9:22 PM

rwiederrich

I have the gigantic motorized version and it is pretty well injected.  I no longer have the box..but I do have the hull and most of the parts........What to do with it?

Rob 

Rob, 

That sounds like the old Lindberg 1/32 scale kit, which was about 30 inches long, and sold with cheap “toy grade” motors and running gear. It is another Lindbergh classic, originally released in 1978. 

Lots of people have converted them to RC-  a google search will turn up lots of examples. Hard to say what to do with it - depends in part on what “...most of the parts” means...!

Bill

Webmaster, IPMS Patriot Chapter  www.ipmspatriot.org

Billerica, MA

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, November 19, 2018 10:22 PM

Little boxes that had a cover. Filled with grease to seal the prop shafts.

  • Member since
    December, 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:20 AM

Most of the parts means I have all the boat parts..just not all the motor running parts..like water box grease and the decals.  All the molded part sprews are intact.  I've had it for years, and was thinking of making it RC.  The hull is nicely formed and injected.

Rob

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Friday, December 07, 2018 9:39 PM

Okay, so I’m getting ready to wrap it up and I’m looking for a suggestion on a main color. I have MM enamels and Tamayia acrylics. Prefer to use the Tamayias. Its ready for 1 more coat of primer. I hope I didn’t make a mistake using the rustoleum. It was a little tacky on the edges even after drying a days or 2. No so much now. Has a warning on the can about using with polyethylene plastics and adhersion. Never used rustoleum before, but boy did it go on nice!  At least I was impressed. Suggestions on paint appreciated. Tks!!

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Saturday, December 08, 2018 9:33 AM

That looks fine.   Finish up smoothing the putty on the seams and try to just hit those area's again with your gray primer. I have used that same brand of Rattle can and it works good on plastic.  I even like the color.   You could leave it as your main hull and superstructure color. Maybe something darker on the deck.  I recommend a good anti-fouling red on the bottom.   When it comes to the details like Horn, guns, mounts, Wheel, exhausts, etc., there is a lot of room for your own "expression".   I don't know what supplies you have on hand but filling the searchlight with some Testors clear parts cement would give it a nice lens appearance.

 Some Ideas:

 

:

Was there or was there not  boot topping?   Certainly no 20mm on the bow. (That looks more like a 78' Higgins,  not the Elco 80' PT-109)

 

  Maybe go for the probable Green vertical surfaces and lighter deck:

 

Or a nice "just got here"  look: (Grey everywhere above the waterline)

(For the experts: Is that boot topping, or is it "Scum".)

 

 

The Movie PT 109 was pretty interesting.  It looks more "Blue":

It always your choice.  Have fun.

   Nino

P.S. Nice job with the spray paint.  Really got good coverage and a nice finish.

 

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:53 AM

Hey Nino - tks for the thumbs up on the primer job!  I was impressed wit the stuff.

Now the drag - I thought, was hoping, that after i sanded the putty spots a little more, they would be good to go and i sprayed them again.  Yuck!  I should have known better.  Guess i was hoping they wouldnt look toooo bad when dome again.  But, im not pleased with em.  So, decision time - re-re-sand or just keep going.  Maybe ill chlk it up to lesson learned and just go with it as is.  

Also, still trying to decide on colors.  Been looking around on the web - what a surprise - had no idea there were so many variations.  Makes it tougher.  I also call the local library to see if they had any books on Higgins and to my surprise, none.  I still dont believe it as they were based here in new orleans.  Might try that one again.  But i did come across the same site that Nino posted from and this one - ptboatworld.com - which has a lot of interesting stuff.  Finally, on that site i saw mention of a merit international 1:48 elco boat kit.  being new to this i know nothing about merit.  are they good?  seems like an expensive kit.  i tried to find them on the web, but all i got was i think a store called merit international.  tks.  this is now where i am.....

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Saturday, December 15, 2018 2:02 PM

I would say forge ahead.

If you want to try further fixing I have a few ideas. I hope some other folks will make suggestions too.

For the GAPS: If you have some "Mister Surfacer", (a liquid filler),  you could try that for the gaps.  I have had somewhat satisfiying resuilts with white glue as a filler too. I use it on spots that will not require sanding and are areas that are not easily seen on the model.

     For any blemishes you can try sanding a tiny bit more with a fine grade and then polishing with a 1000 to 3000 grit paper. That should help blend the existing rough sanding spots but not sand away much paint so you may not have to repaint. I recommend using a Matte sealer on the entire model after all painting/'sanding is done. 

     I have used Testors Dulcote for sealing. If you do decide to use a spraycan flat clear finish, test it on somethng first. I had used Modpodge matte sealer and a non-name brand Clear Acrylic Matte sealer in the past.  They tended to darken the color.  All seemed to hide my glossy glue spots and blend the Brush painting into a more uniform look but Testors seemed the best to me.

        I saw you mentioned Higgins PT Boats.  There are several WWII classes of PT's.  Elco made a 77' boat and The 80' boat (PT 109).  Higgins made a 78" PT boat which is quite different looking from Elco's designs.  Huchkins also made a few 78' PT boats of their own design. 

 For Plastic model kits Revell made the 1/72 scale Elco 80' model kit as PT109, PT 117, PT 167, and a PT 190 "Jack of Diamonds" with roll-off torpedo racks instead of tubes.     Revell also made a 1/98 scale Higgins 78' model as PT 207, PT 211, and PT 212.

No Plastic Elco 77' models though. 

PtBoat World has some good references:

https://www.ptboatworld.com/PT_Boat_Info/PT-Camouflage.html

   Nino

   P.S.  This Revell Elco 80' PT 109 kit is a fun model.  I remember trying to glue cardboard  into the hull for the Dayroom when I was 12 (1964).  Your PT boat is looking good. Get some details painted. The internet actually has good references on PT boats and there are many WW2 photo's although low resolution.   I probably need to build this kit again.  With Revell's new release and upgrade of the PT109 kit, I won't have to use cardboard for the interior anymore.

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:44 PM

so i think im just gonna paint as is.  i will definately have to prime again the spots if i try to sand them more.  lesson learned.....  i used the tamiys soft putty.  anyhow, i found another site.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/05109.htm

 

trying to figure out if there is a waterline stripe or just hull paint to bottom paint?  Thoughts?

so im not going for historical correctness, but just trying to finish a model and get better.  tks

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:48 PM
  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Sunday, December 16, 2018 3:06 PM

Not sure what to think of this.  I’ve never done this before so maybe not too bad?  I marked it with thin styrene then taped it with blue tape Then removed the strips. Didn’t know what else to do. Obviously bleed through.  Guess I didn’t press it down enough. Help on how to fix it up?  Let it dry then tape off the red and repaint the grey??  HELP. Tks. 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, December 16, 2018 5:20 PM

Nino
Was there or was there not boot topping? Certainly no 20mm on the bow. (That looks more like a 78' Higgins, not the Elco 80' PT-109)

The promo/war bond tour just needed "close enough."

Maybe go for the probable Green vertical surfaces and lighter deck

Which gets 'sticky' quickly--witness accounts are that the green was a locally-procurred paint applied to all surfaces in an indiscriminate fashion. 

Said testimony getting confused, over the years, with the official green paints and schemes.  Also testimony that 109 was in gray paint the night of her loss (and at least one report of a black color).

The "Peter Tares" operated very far forward, well forward of "the brass" so a number of the actual practices varied from Book considerably.  Black for underwater hulls was pretty common.  And, quite logical as the forward bases had nothing that needed official red bottom paint, which was in considerable need elsewhere.

[quote]Or a nice "just got here" look: (Grey everywhere above the waterline)[/qoute]

With a darer gray deck and horizontals--the shadowed numberals are very prewar, too.  Very much "just got there."  Which is a hugely appropriate paint schem for 109, and with more thna a little documentation.  Both of the foredeck depthcharges would be in place or, at least the racks would.

(For the experts: Is that boot topping, or is it "Scum".)

That's harbor scum with rather a lot of fuel oil scum.

The Movie PT 109 was pretty interesting. It looks more "Blue":

Technically, all WWII USN grey are in a Purple-Blue hue of one sort or another.  On Ekachrome film, blues are always enhanced, too.  It's still excellent analog film stock for daytime, blue sky photos.  And equally awful for indoors under flourescents everything goes yellow-green.  This is something to take in consideration when assessing period photography.

Now, should OP change the paint on his hull?  Only if he wants to.  As I mentioned above, the 109 (and other forward boats) is tricky to model, as the plywood hulls had no weld beads to run a chalk line between to establish neat waterlines and the like.  They were often painted in the water with local paints of dubious quality, and under considerable time pressure, which is not the sort of thing that allows careful masking and neat paintjobs.

So, the modeler has to do what makes them happy.  Even when "the real thing" did not look as good as one's model--as other people will judge the model on the modeler's skills at painting, seam filling, etc.  Modelling something normally painted sloppily is probably at the zenith of modeling skill.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, December 16, 2018 5:38 PM

Yes let the paint dry- a week at least. Then mask the red, sand off the blood and repaint the gray. Up to you how well you choose to blend it in. A good argument could be made that there'd be patches of slightly different gray, dockside scrape repairs etc.

From the Morrison book of advice freely given but not followed by the author: I usually paint the red first as I like to get the hull mounted on a workstand. Then mask the red, hit the edge of the tape with more red, and then apply gray.

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Sunday, December 16, 2018 9:37 PM

GMorrison

Yes let the paint dry- a week at least. Then mask the red, sand off the blood and repaint the gray. Up to you how well you choose to blend it in. A good argument could be made that there'd be patches of slightly different gray, dockside scrape repairs etc.

From the Morrison book of advice freely given but not followed by the author: I usually paint the red first as I like to get the hull mounted on a workstand. Then mask the red, hit the edge of the tape with more red, and then apply gray.

 

tks much.  Will wait and tape and redo after sanding off the boo boos. I understand what you mentioned on painting the red first, but what do mean when you then mask the red and hit the edge with more red??  If it’s red 1st, wouldn’t you then tape over the red then do a hull color?

  • Member since
    June, 2008
Posted by lewbud on Sunday, December 16, 2018 11:21 PM

The reason G suggested shooting the edge of the tape with red was to seal it to keep the gray from seeping underneath the tape in case it didn't seal properly. A couple of other tips. After you've sanded everything smooth, wipe everything down with rubbing alcohol. This will help remove any sanding dust and skin oils left by handling the model. Before you apply your masking tape, lay the tape down on a flat surface and take a straight edge and knife and cut a thin strip of tape off the edge that is going to form the demarcation line. Doing so will remove the crud that has accumlated on your roll of tape and give you a very sharp line. It will also help it stick better and prevent seepage underneath. After you've laid the tape down are satisfied with how it looks, burnish the heck out of the edge to get it to seal better.  Your 109 is looking good, keep at it!

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, December 17, 2018 8:47 AM
Lewbud - thanks for the explanation.... Also, Tks for the other tips. Great to know as I get more into it. Reminds me one of the reasons for the board - sharing and learning! Have a safe day.
  • Member since
    October, 2016
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Thursday, December 20, 2018 9:52 PM

Hey GM or anyone else......  It’s starting to look as if this should have been in the techniques forum - sorry.  One more question, at least until the next one - rule of thumb on how long to wait until I peel the tape off the waterline after the respray?  Let it dry all the way or until tacky or what?  Looking for best way to do it.  Tks agin!

  • Member since
    June, 2008
Posted by lewbud on Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:56 PM

Sorry for not answering sooner, but the answer depends on what type of paint you're using but the simple answer is as soon as it's dry to the touch (abuot 15 minutes for lacquers/acrylics and 30-45 minutes for enamels ). Take a new/sharp xacto blade and lightly score the edge of the tape, this will help keep the paint from lifting when you remove the tape. Remove the tape by lifting it perpendicular or at an angle to the tape line. Then set it aside to fully cure. The reason I said dry to the touch instead of fully cured is that the paint will form a hard edge that is noticeable under a decal if allowed to cure with the tape in place. If you remove the tape when it's dry to the touch it will still produce a sharp line, but the paint will settle slightly making a softer edge that won't be noticeable under a decal. This may not be as noticeable on a ship but when you build a airplane with a multi color camo scheme, it can be very noticeable. Not important for a shelf sitter, but can make the difference between taking home a trophy or going home empty handed if it's a contest model. Hope this helps.

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

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