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Travesty

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  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Travesty
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 6:08 PM

I'm typically an armor builder, but I still am a naval enthuisiast as well. I'm sure this has been brought up before, so I apologize in advance. I was reading my Osprey US Heavy Cruisers book and was thinking: why couldn't the USS San Francisco and New Orleans with many battle stars, etc, not have been donated to their respective cities? Both are accessable by water and both ships had an amazing career during the war. So sad, as both were probably sold for pennies on the dollar for scrap. Thankfully, the Alabama, North Carolina, Missouri and others have been saved. Of course, the Enterprise SHOULD have been preserved, for she was the most decorated ship in our history. I'm so greatful for seeing the MIssouri in person and standing on her decks was a bucket-list event for me as well as being at Pearl and standing on the Arizona memorial. Wow. No other way to describe it for me.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Sunday, January 06, 2019 6:29 PM

Halsey tried to save Enterprise,  but in the mid 50s, people were just glad the war was over and it was time to move on and get back to normal life.  They just couldn't raise enough to do it and the Navy was taking what they could get scrapping the older ships to save money and get something back on the costs in building and maintenance.  Plus they reasoned they didn't need the fleet sizes they had at the time.

But I agree, if anything was worthy of saving, the Big E was

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 6:46 PM

Good point about the 50's. Sadly nobody remembered the ships service. However, the ships were probably paid off, so what did the Navy lose?

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, January 06, 2019 7:23 PM

It's a hugely complicated issue.

USS Texas was the very first explicitly donated/museum ship, and that was 1947.
It was close to a decade before that was replicated.

Some of that was Service-related; a large number of ships were considered "war reserve" and not elligible to be converted into museums.  In fact, there used to be a bunch of rules on just how a ship could be displayed, and what changes to its readiness were allowed.

The heavy cruisers were especially complicated  They were much more econmical to operate than battleships in peacetime.  Which gave them high value.  Which reduced their likelyhood for recommendation for preservation.  This even while the rapid-fire 8" rifle was making the older classes  obsolete.  But, that obsolescence is also what sent them to the scrappers faster than normal, too (along with guided missile conversions).

Lastly, operating museum ships is a very expensive operation.  It wants millions in capital just to get started; you also need millions in infrastructure, too.

It turns out, too, you need to be able to have access to more millions for periodic maintenance, too.  Warships need drydocking for hull maintenance and replacement of expendables, like anodes.  This was a very hard lesson learned with Texas, which went 40 years grounded in a muddy slip in brackish sea water before being drydocked (the 88-89 shipyard trip replaced an etraordinary amount of material, and cost millions).  Now Teas is way overdue of another drydock trip, which is complicted by limited access to the sea and to shipyards, and deteriorating conditions (they have been replacing floors in the boiler flats and engine rooms for nearly four year now)  The only afforadable sloution will be to make a dry berth for the ship, which will run to about $25 million and take about 5 years

North Carolina just finished a huge cofferdam project to better control the water around the ship, and to prevent issue about leaks and the like.  Alabama just went through a similar situation.  And, we need look no further than Olympia to see what happens when maintenance is deferred or neglected.

Yes, more ships should have been (and should be now) preserved.  The fabric of history is worthy of preservation, and we ignore our history at our own peril  Sadly, though, dollars do not grow on trees.  I appauld the groups who have managed to preserve what we do have.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 7:39 PM

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge. Makes things a little clearer.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:23 PM

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge. Makes things a little clearer.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Currently in the Dallas area
Posted by modelcrazy on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:24 PM

I understand the cost issue but it would have been great if someone could have saved the Eugen. However, if Halsey couldn't save the Big E, then no one would have a chance with a Nazi ship. Better to blow the Devil out of it with an Atomic bomb, actually both, at Bikini. And she still was able to be towed to Kwajalein before succumbing to shaft seal leakage. She's a popular wreck dive today.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/72 Airfix Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV
1/72 Revell Eurofighter Typhoon Twin Seater
1/72 Revell MiG 29 UB Fulcrum
1/48 Tamiya Mk.1 Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

Yes, it's a lot!

In Que

1/72 Airfix Dakota Mk. IV

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:28 PM

modelcrazy

I understand the cost issue but it would have been great if someone could have saved the Eugen. However, if Halsey couldn't save the Big E, then no one would have a chance with a Nazi ship. Better to blow the Devil out of it with an Atomic bomb, actually both, at Bikini. And she still was able to be towed to Kwajalein before succumbing to shaft seal leakage. She's a popular wreck dive today.

 

The Prinz Eugen was a beautiful ship. Sad that she wasn't saved at least as a prize. Sadly, she was sacrificed. 

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 06, 2019 9:53 PM

We do at least have CA-38s bridge.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Sunday, January 06, 2019 10:48 PM

There are pieces of Enterprise still in existence though.

As an aside, BB USS Oregon was given to the state as a museum ship, but was scrapped during the war for her steel.  Her mast still exists on the waterfront in Portland though.

Would be interesting to find out how many pieces of famous or well known ships are scattered around the country as memorials to them.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Monday, January 07, 2019 2:18 AM

Seen the mast and funnels of the Oregon. Grew up in Portland. I have read of pieces of the West Virginia and South Dakota in Morgantown and Sioux Falls.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, January 07, 2019 8:51 AM

Hmmm;

 That is a sad case yes . Now how about this one .I was raised about a third of my Young life in Buffalo N.Y. I lived the rest in either Little rock or Miami with Dad .Mostly Little Rock .

 Many years pass and the Little Rock ( a cruiser ) Comes up for the possibility of museum status . Does Little Rock respond positively , NOPE ! Guess where she winds up ? Yup , on the Waterfront in Buffalo N.Y. How's that for a twist ?

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Monday, January 07, 2019 10:16 AM

goldhammer

Would be interesting to find out how many pieces of famous or well known ships are scattered around the country as memorials to them.

 

 

The USS ESSEX (CV/CVA/CVS-9) Association was fortunate to get some pieces of wood from the flight deck when ESSEX was being cut up. One of our members cut them up, finished them and mounted them on a wood base, had them numbered and a plate made for each one. At that time, all the Association WWII guys, Korean War guys and most of the Cold war guys got one. Each came with a letter of authenticity.

I had mine mounted in a frame with the letter.

Mine is #141.

 

These chunks of wood are all that's left to remember "The Oldest and the Boldest", the lead ship of a class of 24 carriers that helped win WWII and well into the cold war.

She was finally decommissioned 30 June 1969 and scrapped in New Jersey, in the early 1970's.

EJ 

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 07, 2019 10:28 AM

In addition to the Hornet, Pampanito, Red Oak Victory and J.O. B., we have the afore mentioned section of the bridge of San Francisco and for years the bow of the Indiana was a valet shack in a parking restaurant at a fish restaurant in Berkeley.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, January 13, 2019 6:13 PM

ejhammer

 

 
goldhammer

Would be interesting to find out how many pieces of famous or well known ships are scattered around the country as memorials to them.

 

 

 

 

The USS ESSEX (CV/CVA/CVS-9) Association was fortunate to get some pieces of wood from the flight deck when ESSEX was being cut up. One of our members cut them up, finished them and mounted them on a wood base, had them numbered and a plate made for each one. At that time, all the Association WWII guys, Korean War guys and most of the Cold war guys got one. Each came with a letter of authenticity.

I had mine mounted in a frame with the letter.

Mine is #141.

 

These chunks of wood are all that's left to remember "The Oldest and the Boldest", the lead ship of a class of 24 carriers that helped win WWII and well into the cold war.

She was finally decommissioned 30 June 1969 and scrapped in New Jersey, in the early 1970's.

EJ 

 

 

Cool piece of history.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Sunday, January 13, 2019 11:01 PM

In my area, there are actual artifacts from the USS Oriskany aircraft carrier - the anchor and the A-4 Skyhawk fighter jet as well as others on loan right here in Oriskany, NY. 

https://www.oriskanymuseum.com/

https://www.oneidacountytourism.com/what-to-do/attractions/museums/place/345/oriskany-museum

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Monday, January 14, 2019 10:25 AM

Regarding the USS ESSEX, I was reminded by our Association Historian, that a very significant and traditionally important piece of the original USS ESSEX CV/CVA/CVS-9 ship was presented to the USS ESSEX LHD-2. It was the original Ship's Bell from the CV-9 that was in the possession of the ESSEX Association at that time. The bell was received and incorporated into the railing on the stbd side.

This is a screenshot from the Commissioning Ceremony video showing the bell above the dignitaies.

Close up.

EJ

Completed - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

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