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Trumpeter 1:700 Saratoga-Done

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  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Trumpeter 1:700 Saratoga-Done
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, June 13, 2019 1:19 PM

I've started my Trumpeter 1:700 CV3 Saratoga.  This is the pre-war ship, and will be done in the pre-war livery, 8 inch guns and all.  I have the Eduard PE set.

Got the flight deck ready for painting, nets cut away and elevators glued in place (making it with elevators up.

Since there was not that much color photography before WW2, I am having a hard time finding decent color pictures of the ship.  I am trying to figure out the color of the secondary armament.  Anyone know?  I found a  b&w picture that shows the big guns, and those appear to be the overall light gray. I have not found a good enough picture of the secondary, though.

Also, I would like to try to add the arrester cables, but have been unable to find either a picture or drawing to show those.  Anyone have ideas on that?

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Thursday, June 13, 2019 4:02 PM

Don, after your last small Victory model I am anxious to see everything you build, especially small ships.  Have you ever done anything on the 1911 Marmon Wasp. That Victory was beautiful.

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, June 13, 2019 4:23 PM

I'll follow this with interest, Don!  I've got this kit, too, but haven't started it yet.  It looks nice, out of the box.

I don't have any color references, either, only black-and-white.  The colors are pretty basic, though.  I think I've got all White Ensign Models colors for my pre-war US Navy builds.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, June 14, 2019 9:02 AM

gene1

Don, after your last small Victory model I am anxious to see everything you build, especially small ships.  Have you ever done anything on the 1911 Marmon Wasp. That Victory was beautiful.

 

I intend to do the Wasp next year.  This year is my Year of the Ship. I have set aside a set of 1:16 wheels for the Wasp, but will need to make some wheel covers for them too.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, June 14, 2019 3:45 PM

That will be very interesting,looking forward to it.

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Friday, June 14, 2019 4:38 PM

Com'on Don get going on the Saratga. You got me interested now & I asked Jim about a Yorktown CV5 kit in 1/700. I wanted it because a kid i was in the 6th or 7th grade with was 15 or 16 & as soon as Pearl Harbor happened he joined the navy & was on the Yorktown when it went down.

                      He was pretty old for that grade ,but was a great boy. He got off ok & finished the war ok. I asked my brother what Eddie said about the sinking & my brother said he probably thought it was swim call. They ran around together after the war. I missed WW2 by about 3 years,but everyone I knew nearly was in it.

 Lets have pictures.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 14, 2019 10:40 PM

There's a good but small picture of her "recovering her planes off Maui 1932" or something like that on Navsource. You'll see the number and location of the arrestor cables.

That class of ships originally was designed to operate aircraft off of either end, and there were cables amidships. By the early thirties, a more conventional cable set up at the stern was used.

A rule of thumb for the open 5" guns is that the gun itself is painted the color of the verticals around it. The base plate is the color of the deck it is placed on.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, June 15, 2019 6:35 AM

GMorrison

There's a good but small picture of her "recovering her planes off Maui 1932" or something like that on Navsource. You'll see the number and location of the arrestor cables.

That class of ships originally was designed to operate aircraft off of either end, and there were cables amidships. By the early thirties, a more conventional cable set up at the stern was used.

A rule of thumb for the open 5" guns is that the gun itself is painted the color of the verticals around it. The base plate is the color of the deck it is placed on.

 

 

GMorrison

There's a good but small picture of her "recovering her planes off Maui 1932" or something like that on Navsource. You'll see the number and location of the arrestor cables.

That class of ships originally was designed to operate aircraft off of either end, and there were cables amidships. By the early thirties, a more conventional cable set up at the stern was used.

A rule of thumb for the open 5" guns is that the gun itself is painted the color of the verticals around it. The base plate is the color of the deck it is placed on.

 

 

Thanks.  Any chance you have a link to the picture?  I also have a movie that shows a brief shot of her in the Panama canal, but it is from a below the flight deck aspect.  Great movie- Task Force.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February, 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Sunday, June 16, 2019 6:36 AM

Squadron published a really interesting and photo-filled book of Saratoga by David Doyle in their Squardon at Sea series.  Highly recommended.

 

It is out of print but you can find them on Amazon.  Link: https://www.amazon.com/USS-Saratoga-Squadron-At-Sea/dp/089747712X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=saratoga+david+doyle&qid=1560684869&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

Disclaimer: I have no association with Squadron or Mr. Doyle other than as a satisfied customer.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, June 17, 2019 8:38 AM

Model Monkey

Squadron published a really interesting and photo-filled book of Saratoga by David Doyle in their Squardon at Sea series.  Highly recommended.

 

It is out of print but you can find them on Amazon.  Link: https://www.amazon.com/USS-Saratoga-Squadron-At-Sea/dp/089747712X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=saratoga+david+doyle&qid=1560684869&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

Disclaimer: I have no association with Squadron or Mr. Doyle other than as a satisfied customer.

 

Thanks, Steve

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, June 17, 2019 11:39 AM

hi Don,

Great to see another carrier build log.  I will be following.

Scott

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, June 17, 2019 4:50 PM

Got the hull painted, and the deck almost painted, except for gray on the bow and stern ramps.  Boy, decaling that deck was a lot of work, with those very thin and narrow lines!

I did not put the ships boats in their positions, as they will be multi-color.  Also, holding off on all PE like railings and those safety nets on sides of the flight deck.  The latter will be butt glued to intersection of deck and hull, and I suspect that joint will be very fragile.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, June 17, 2019 6:52 PM

Don Stauffer

 Also, holding off on all PE like railings and those safety nets on sides of the flight deck.  The latter will be butt glued to intersection of deck and hull, and I suspect that joint will be very fragile.

At about a 15 deg. upward angle.

The last sentence in your above is by a very experienced modeler. Any way you can turn the attachment points on the PE into tiny pins?

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:16 AM

GMorrison

 

 
Don Stauffer

 Also, holding off on all PE like railings and those safety nets on sides of the flight deck.  The latter will be butt glued to intersection of deck and hull, and I suspect that joint will be very fragile.

 

 

At about a 15 deg. upward angle.

 

The last sentence in your above is by a very experienced modeler. Any way you can turn the attachment points on the PE into tiny pins?

 

Hey, that is a great idea.  I'll try that when I am cutting the nets out.  BTW, the PE stuff is all stainless.  I personally prefer brass.  I wonder how well most primers work on stainless.  Adhesion seems okay so far.  Lucky coincidence, the primer I am using (Rustoleum) is a very, very close match for the ghost gray I am using.  That should minimize clogging fine nets and stuff.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:59 AM

I suppose this is too fine a detail at 1/700, but I remeber the nets were originally intended to be set vertical while the ship was not operating it's aircraft, as a wind barrier for the light biplanes of the era in which she was designed. The bottom half or so was canvas strips, the upper half net. But I also think they were painted whatever color the ship was.

 

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:24 AM

Don, I got an Academy Enterprise in 1/700, following your lead. I wanted a hull. Bill says he has 3 Academy Ent. & will build the  Hornet, Yorktown & Ent. If I can handle the 1/700 scale I would like to do that.

       My brother saw 3 of the Carriers get hit with kamakazi's. The Franklin was one I think. I think that was at Okinawa.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:46 AM

Gene - 

IIRC Enterprise and Yorktown were pretty close in final build as they came off the ways.  Hornet had a different island structure from what I have seen and understand.  Have always looked at her as a kind of 3/4 sister to the first pair in the class. 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:52 AM

It would not surprise me if there's a correct CV-8 island available in 3D print.

I used Gator masks for the 1/350 Hornet camouflage and they worked great. I would guess they are available in 1/700. 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, June 24, 2019 1:51 PM

Working on the superstructure, but it sure is going slow.

 

The levels are so tiny.  The upper ones are like 5/16 x 5/15 x 1/8.  And lots of parts for each level.  Most are five pieces- four walls and an upper deck level.  Unfortunately the molding is not accurate enough, and visible cracks remain where the walls each meet.  This means filling and filing!  With assemblies that small it is hard to get even a micro file in to do the work without scraping something else (sanding would be even worse).  I don't see why they have to make these levels with so many pieces.  Seems to me with modern slide mold technology they could do it in one or two pieces (maybe a one piece slab for the walls representing the level with a seperate upper deck piece, or even a one piece structure.  Pieces like searchlights are really tiny!

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 1:33 PM

For a break to regain my sanity after working on the bitty parts, I am working on the base.  The kit includes a very nice vacuformed sea base.  I painted it and mounted it in a wood frame.

I temporarily sat the hull/deck into it to see what it would look like.

Looks pretty good to me.  Leaves a big gap along side which I will have to fill with something when I permanently attach ship, but that should be pretty easy.

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 1:55 PM

You should turn the hull around. She and her sister were originally designed to be able to sail backwards for stern launches....

Looking very good.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 8:38 PM

[quote user="Don Stauffer]

Working on the superstructure, but it sure is going slow.

 The levels are so tiny.  The upper ones are like 5/16 x 5/15 x 1/8.  And lots of parts for each level.  Most are five pieces- four walls and an upper deck level.  Unfortunately the molding is not accurate enough, and visible cracks remain where the walls each meet.  This means filling and filing!  With assemblies that small it is hard to get even a micro file in to do the work without scraping something else (sanding would be even worse).  I don't see why they have to make these levels with so many pieces.  Seems to me with modern slide mold technology they could do it in one or two pieces (maybe a one piece slab for the walls representing the level with a separate upper deck piece, or even a one piece structure.  Pieces like searchlights are really tiny!

 

[/quote]

 

  Don, I heard form Warshipguy who asked me to relay that Steve L., Model Monkey, makes a terrific replacement island. (Bill is not able to log in again)

Might be worth it.  Especially is something goes wrong with the finicky Trumpeter part...

https://www.shapeways.com/product/FA8RHKHAF/1-700-uss-saratoga-cv-3-island-1936-1940

 

 

   Nino

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 9:08 PM

Don Stauffer

I've started my Trumpeter 1:700 CV3 Saratoga.  This is the pre-war ship, and will be done in the pre-war livery, 8 inch guns and all.  I have the Eduard PE set.

Got the flight deck ready for painting, nets cut away and elevators glued in place (making it with elevators up.

...

Also, I would like to try to add the arrester cables, but have been unable to find either a picture or drawing to show those.  Anyone have ideas on that?

 

 

RE: Arrestor cables.  Here are a few pre-war pics from some WEB sites showing the Deck in pretty good detail.  I have nothing on the specifics of the cables.

 

Some Nets too:

 

 

  Tracy White has some of the best Pics. Perhaps he will notice my attempt to add some info and Add in some of his collection.

Don, I will email you some interesting links of Pre-War Deck color.

     Jim.

 Edit:

  Forgot to add an interesting Link.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/with/4821875011/

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 10:06 PM

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 8:59 AM

Nino

 

 
Don Stauffer

I've started my Trumpeter 1:700 CV3 Saratoga.  This is the pre-war ship, and will be done in the pre-war livery, 8 inch guns and all.  I have the Eduard PE set.

Got the flight deck ready for painting, nets cut away and elevators glued in place (making it with elevators up.

...

Also, I would like to try to add the arrester cables, but have been unable to find either a picture or drawing to show those.  Anyone have ideas on that?

 

 

 

RE: Arrestor cables.  Here are a few pre-war pics from some WEB sites showing the Deck in pretty good detail.  I have nothing on the specifics of the cables.

 

Some Nets too:

 

 

  Tracy White has some of the best Pics. Perhaps he will notice my attempt to add some info and Add in some of his collection.

Don, I will email you some interesting links of Pre-War Deck color.

     Jim.

 Edit:

  Forgot to add an interesting Link.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/with/4821875011/

 

 

Thanks again, Jim.  Great photos!

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 11:53 AM

Don Stauffer

For a break to regain my sanity after working on the bitty parts, I am working on the base.  The kit includes a very nice vacuformed sea base.  I painted it and mounted it in a wood frame.

I temporarily sat the hull/deck into it to see what it would look like.

Looks pretty good to me.  Leaves a big gap along side which I will have to fill with something when I permanently attach ship, but that should be pretty easy.

I'm going to use artist's acrylic gel to fill the gaps on mine.  It'll also adhere the model to the base.

That base is a really nice feature of a pretty nice kit!

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:45 AM

the Baron

 

 
Don Stauffer

For a break to regain my sanity after working on the bitty parts, I am working on the base.  The kit includes a very nice vacuformed sea base.  I painted it and mounted it in a wood frame.

I temporarily sat the hull/deck into it to see what it would look like.

Looks pretty good to me.  Leaves a big gap along side which I will have to fill with something when I permanently attach ship, but that should be pretty easy.

 

 

I'm going to use artist's acrylic gel to fill the gaps on mine.  It'll also adhere the model to the base.

That base is a really nice feature of a pretty nice kit!

 

That is my plan also.  The thickness of acrylic gel will allow me to scupt that fill a bit to continue the wave shapes.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Thursday, June 27, 2019 10:36 AM

Don, you really got me fired up & I have 3 1/700 carriers coming, the Midway 3 & Jim ,nino, sent me a Revell 1/480 Yorktown. I had wriiten about a 16 year old friend of mine who joined the navy right after Pearl harbor & was on the Yorktown at Midway. He made it thru the war fine,. He was my brothers friend too.

    Keep the pictures coming & your island looks great. Looking forward to no rigging.                 Gene

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Friday, June 28, 2019 9:28 PM

Don, What colors did you use on your bases? I do like them I made base's with smooth water for some Iron Clads I built.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, June 29, 2019 6:43 AM

gene1

Don, What colors did you use on your bases? I do like them I made base's with smooth water for some Iron Clads I built.

 

I used Dark Blue, on the back of the water (gloss, but because it was on the back it would turn out glossy anyway).  And I used gloss white for turbulent areas atop the bow wave, some of the other waves made by the ship, and the turbulence at the stern.

I really screwed up Thursday.  I had all the photo etch on the funnel, painted the gray, forgot the black stripe!  I should have done the painting before the PE went on.  Now, I cannot mask it because the PE is fragile and I would have to mask over it.  I hand painted the cap, as I intended to do, but am making decal strips.  I will be able, I believe, to use this over the flat areas and do the black on the PE walkways by brush.  But my printer ran out of ink.  Ordered some and it will be here Sunday or Monday.  I need let the stuff dry on the decal paper for at least 3 days before I dullcoat it, so won't be able to do anything on the funnel till I get back from 4th vacation following week.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

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