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Vacuum-formed sails: NOW I get it!!!

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  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Dansville, MI
Vacuum-formed sails: NOW I get it!!!
Posted by LAV driver on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:01 PM

I am a brand-new ship modeller and have been reading all the excellent posts on the topic of sails. Since I am new and not yet that discerning, I wondered why so many people were averse to the use of the vacuum-formed sails, which I thought didn't look that bad on my Lindberg box photo. I thought because of my inexperience I would use the supplied sails and that substituting for cloth would add too much time and frustration to my first model build. That was until I painted the sails and saw the atrocious brush marks that showed when light shined through my sails. Yuck!!!! I have now decided to make cloth sails using some combination of the techniques described by you experienced builders. I bought some thin white cotton fabric and some stiffener that crafters use to make cloth bows and I plan to use the vacuum sails as a form for stiffening my cotton cloth.

I saw that J. Tilley in a related post discouraged using tea to dye the sails because of the tannins and the risk of deterioration. Would this be mitigated by my use of the stiffener or should I find some other method of coloring my white cloth?

Also, what are those ties called that are sewn onto the sail and are used to secure it when furled? Are they a different color than the sail cloth?

I have a lot to learn!!!

Devin

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:46 PM
If you have seen this post, Lindberg Jolly Roger, Yep, another pirate ship, I have recently tried the typing paper method and I'm really impressed on making sails this way for a model this size.  I have made sails of cloth, polyester, and other materials and like this method for its ease and scale appearance.

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/560162/ShowPost.aspx

Scott

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:42 PM

I don't recommend the use of tea or coffee for any modeling purposes - other than fortifying the modeler and keeping him/her awake.  I have no idea what physical/chemical reactions might be influenced by any sort of stiffener, but the stuff just isn't reliable.

We've had a good, ongoing discussion of sailmaking here in the Forum.  Here's a link to that thread:

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/564680/ShowPost.aspx

As will become obvious from that thread, I'm not a fan of "set" sails; my personal preference is for either furled sails or "bare poles."  But that's entirely a matter of personal taste.

In any case, I don't recommend cloth as a scale sailmaking material on anything but very large scales (say, 3/16"=1' and up).  A minute's consideration will establish that few, if any, fabric materials are available that wouldn't be out of scale - unless they're transparent.  The most successful "set" sails I've seen on smaller-scale models have been made out of paper.

Three different categories of line are used to secure a square sail to its yard.  During most of the sailing ship period the head of the sail had a series of eyes sewn in it, near the edge, and a piece of rope (the boltrope) stitched around its perimeter in such a way that an eye (called an earring) was formed at each corner.  The earrings were lashed to the ends of the yard (the yardarms) with short pieces of light rope.  The line that held the rest of the sail to the yard was called a roband.  In earlier centuries it was a long rope that was secured to one end of the yard and passed in a spiral around the yard and through the eyes, in order, effectively lacing the sail to the yard.  By the seventeenth century the robands normally were short ropes, one for each eye in the sail.  In the early nineteenth century a gadget called the jackstay was invented.  The jackstay was made of either wood or (later) iron, in the form of a low fence (a few inches high) along the top of the yard.  The sail was secured not to the yard but to the jackstay, by means of a series of short robands.  (Some large ships in the early twentieth century had two jackstays for each yard - one on top, for the sailors to hang onto, and one 45 degrees in front, for the robands.)

When the sail was furled, it was held in that configuration by lines called gaskets.  Again, in the early days (through the seventeenth century or thereabouts - and probably longer on small ships) there was one gasket per yard; it was a long rope, wrapped in a spiral around the bundle of the sail and the yard.  (In the seventeenth century the method of furling topsails was more complicated than that, but that'll do for our purposes at the moment.)  By the eighteenth century there typically were several gaskets on each yard.

The lines LAV driver is referring to probably are the reef points.  A good-sized sail was equipped with one, two, or three reef bands - narrow strips of canvas running horizontally (or, in some specialized cases, diagonally) across it.  A series of eyes, a foot or two apart, were sewn into the reef band.  Each eye had two reef points secured to it - one hanging in front of the sail, the other behind it.  When the wind got stronger the sail could be reefed.  The yard would be lowered a few feet (by slacking off the halyard), and a gang of men would go aloft. They would gather the sail up until the highest reef band was just under the yard, and tie the front and back reef points togther on top of the yard (using a reef knot - better known to Boy Scouts as the square knot).  If the wind got still stronger, they would take in two or three reefs - that is, lower the yard and bundle up the sail until only the portion below the lowest reef band was exposed to the wind.

Reef points would normally be the same color as the rest of the running rigging.  The precise color of rigging line is a matter of considerable discussion; it depends to some extent on the period of the ship.  (When in doubt, err on the dark side.)

An excellent, basic guide to all this stuff is John Harland's book, Seamanship in the Age of Sail.  Unfortunately it's pretty expensive, but it's a superb, comprehensive treatise on the subject - and beautifully illustrated.  I suspect used copies can be found for relatively reasonable prices on the web.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:47 PM
You know, I buck the trend, and actually like to see set sails on a model ship. I've seen some nice-looking models with full sails full of wind.

I read a tip in Seaways Ships in Scale magazine for using wire inserted in the edges of cloth sais to make them look full of wind. So not everyone is into the bare yards look. FWIW, I really like the look of furled sails too.

Would airbrushing the vacuum-formed sails help? You could probably strip off the paint you brushed on with Easy Off oven cleaner (but be careful).

I'd love to build a sailing ship model shown in the sea, with a full press of sails and crew at their assigned stations. Something like this, but at a larger scale:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/sail/lesuperbe-500-dhs/dhs-index.html

In any event, good luck! Let us know how things turn out.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: K-Town, Germany
Posted by sirdrake on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:23 PM
 scottrc wrote:
If you have seen this post, Lindberg Jolly Roger, Yep, another pirate ship, I have recently tried the typing paper method and I'm really impressed on making sails this way for a model this size.  I have made sails of cloth, polyester, and other materials and like this method for its ease and scale appearance.


I can only second this. And if something goes wrong, you can make new sails rather quickly and inexpensively.

Frank

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: San Diego
Posted by jgonzales on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:43 PM

Hello all,

Here's a post on a forum for Heller Victory modellers - the post is pro-vacuform sails. The builder used powdered wax to highlight the details on the sails.

http://www.chumster.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44&mforum=bobbie

Personally, I think the vacu-form sails that come with the Revell 1/96 Constitution are a cut above the others - they have built-in cloth texture (albeit out of scale), and the creases and stretch marks help to make these sails look more like real billowing sails than any of the others out there. Of the vacu-formed sails that come with the kits, I think these are the only ones with potential for looking good on a model. For myself, I'll be trying out tissue, cloth and vacuform and picking what I think looks best.

Jose Gonzales

Jose Gonzales San Diego, CA
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:27 AM

I certainly agree that the quality of vac-formed sails varies from kit to kit.  In the mid-to-late sixties the people at Revell apparently put some real thought into the subject.  At the moment I'm looking at the long-extinct Revell Golden Hind.  (I got one courtesy of our good friend Big Jake, shortly before his tragic encounter with Katrina.  My intention is in fact to build it - but no promises.  I'm notoriously unreliable that way.)  The sails that came with it had some cracks in them and got thrown out, but in some ways they really weren't bad.  The designer had done a beautiful job of shaping them with subtle, carefully-shaped "billows," as though the ship were on the port tack, and the "seams" in them were barely noticeable.

I've got two fundamental problems with vac-formed sails.  In the first place, the vac-forming process, by definition, only works in one direction.  A raised feature on one side of the plastic has to have a corresponding depressed feature on the other.  In some kits (generally on small scales) the designers insisted on molding things like reef points, buntlines, and leechlines in with the sails.  Those "ropes" might be made to look acceptable (barely) on the front of the sail, where they appear as raised lines, but look ridiculous from the back, where they appear as grooves.  Many kits also overdo the "seams" between individual cloths, producing rows of oversized raised lines on the front and utterly un-prototypical grooves on the back.  The worst offenders, though, surely are the manufacturers who try to make vac-formed "furled" sails.  Such "bundles" just might, with some careful painting, be made to look reasonably convincing from the front, but the "bundles" are hollow.  The appearance of such a "sail" from the back is like nothing ever seen on a real ship.

My other reservation about the system concerns the fact that real sails, with extremely rare exceptions, are not of uniform thickness.  Hems, reef bands, mast cloths, top linings, and various other features make parts of the sail much thicker than others.  When light strikes a real sail from behind (i.e., when the sail is between the observer and the sun), those thicker portions of the sail look conspicuously darker.  And other features of the ship - the spars, the other sails, and the lines of the rigging - show up in silhouette.  (You may not have noticed that, but it's true.)  A well-made vac-formed sail does a reasonably effective job of filtering the light (and does, sometimes, produce that silhouette effect), but the molded-in reefbands, hems, etc. look phony when backlit.

Painting the "thicker" parts a darker color won't do the trick; the differentiation between "thick" and "thin" sections should only be obvious when the sail is backlit.  I've played around occasionally with the idea of trying to stick extra layers of styrene (or some other material) to the surface of a vac-formed sail, to represent the reef bands, hems, etc.  That might be possible; frankly I've never been able to convince myself that it would be worth the trouble. 

The most effective "set" sails I've encountered have been on either very large-scale or very small-scale models.  The big ones I like have had fabric sails made from individual cloths, and the small ones have had paper sails.  People like Donald McNarry and Philip Reed have made some beautiful small-scale waterline models in scenic settings with paper sails, photos of which can just about convince me that I'm looking at pictures of the real things.  I've also seen a handful of utterly exquisite models with sails made from wood.  To my own, personal eye, though, there's something odd about a full-hull model, mounted on a stand, with its sails bellying out.  Where's the wind coming from - and why isn't the ship moving?

I think I'm just as sensitive as the next person to the image of a frigate or clipper ship bowling through the sunlit blue sea under full sail, or charging around Cape Horn under close-reef topsails.  But I decided long ago to leave such images to the marine painters and novelists.  To my eye a model under bare poles, or (better yet) with furled sails, conveys a sense of pent-up potential energy that satisfies both my old-fashioned, romanticized fascination with ships and a desire for realism in scale modeling.  I'd rather close my eyes and imagine what that ship looked like under full sail than spend months on a set of sails that are almost - but not quite - convincing.

That, however, is an entirely personal and individual way of looking at the subject.  One of the great things about this hobby, to my notion, is the wide range it offers for personal taste and interpretation.  To each his (or her) own.  Anybody building a ship model has my most enthusiastic encouragement and blessing to approach the problem of sails in whatever way he or she thinks is most appropriate.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:37 PM
This has been an incredibly helfpul topic - thanks!! I'm building a 1/96 Revell constitution model and I'm still struggling with whether or not to use sails, and if so, whether or not to use the kit's vacuformed sails. This thread has been great and has given me some different ideas...
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Dansville, MI
Posted by LAV driver on Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:16 PM

Thanks everyone for the great comments and helpful suggestions. I am amazed how much thought goes into the postings around here! I appreciate and value the advice I have gotten and I will update everyone on the status of my sail experiments. I took jtilley's advice and I am avoiding the tea and coffee. I heard that there was a tea-stain dye available but I couldn't find this in my area, so I bought some tan fabric dye and I am happy with the results of my sails so far. I like all the ideas about furled sails, bare yards, and the tissue-paper sails look great. I plan to try these on future ship models (I am hooked! I have the "Jolly Roger" and the Revell Bounty in the line-up now.)

I admit I still like the look of the billowing sails and I think the nice thing about sails is that I could always change them in the future if I get tired of them. I hope this is true, anyway. I agree that the fabric I have shows out of scale weaving but I don't think this will bother me at this stage of my modelling. When I finish I will post some photos. I guarantee they won't look half as good as what I have seen so far on this site but I am a beginner, after all.

It is interesting that everyone who has posted has matched some line of my thought in my approach to these sails. I hope that's a good sign for me. I thought about airbrushing my vacuum-formed sails, as Lufbery wrote, only too late. I also noticed the same thing jtilley mentioned about the depression caused on the opposite sides of the sails in the manufacturing process and that did bother me. I considered the tissue-paper method, which gave great results but I thought I might get discouraged by my efforts since I haven't completed a ship model yet. My greatest obstacle is my lack of familiarity with ships. I am still waiting for the model ship rigging books I ordered on Amazon and haven't even tied a thread yet. I appreciate all the advice I have gotten so far and maybe my books will answer more of my questions.

In the meantime, I plan to continue with my cloth sails. I will try the stiffener next and see how that turns out. If it looks ok, I will color in the details I just learned about, such as the reef points, to bring out more detail in the sail. I think at this point in my modelling, I will strive for a good representation of the ship even if some of the details aren't quite right. Alluding to my other hobby, I like the looks of both my toy soldiers (representations) and model soldiers (scale models), and I think even my first ship models will please me as well.

Thanks again for all the help and I will keep everyone posted.

Devin

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: K-Town, Germany
Posted by sirdrake on Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:11 PM
 jtilley wrote:

  At the moment I'm looking at the long-extinct Revell Golden Hind.  (I got one courtesy of our good friend Big Jake, shortly before his tragic encounter with Katrina.  My intention is in fact to build it - but no promises.  I'm notoriously unreliable that way.)  The sails that came with it had some cracks in them and got thrown out, but in some ways they really weren't bad.  The designer had done a beautiful job of shaping them with subtle, carefully-shaped "billows," as though the ship were on the port tack, and the "seams" in them were barely noticeable.



That's right, now that look at them... Rather subtle, but they are definitely not symmetrical. Needless to say that my Golden Hind is on the startboard tack Sign - Oops [#oops]Laugh [(-D]. Anyway, the sails are not done yet, maybe the paper-method I'm trying out for the sails (also got some cracks in some of the original sails) leaves some room for adjustments...

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, March 24, 2006 3:48 PM

I'll second the idea of at least trying out paper for set sails.  I have found that a 100% "rag" paper helps no end in the process (for one thing, you can dampen it and use spray statch lightly to hold a shape).

Another nice thing about paper is that it can be "built up" to show the layers a sail would have.  You can also use a combination of things to show things on the sail, too.  Using a very pale gray Prismacolor pencil will make niciely understated seams.  Watercolor pencils can be used to hint at "panel" discolorations (always remembering that less is more).

Reef points spent a lot of time out in the sunshine, so to my thinking, they really ought to be a faded version of the running rigging color.  I make mine by making a series of figure-of-eight knots on an approriate-sized bit of thread.  These are then cut off near flush to the knot, and then a uniform length, and glued to the reef band by the knot (remember that the windard reefpoints--the back side ones--will hang down, or slightly angled toward the sail, depending on the "set" angle of the sail).

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 24, 2006 3:58 PM

Has anyone tried this:

 

cut the vacuformed sales out.  Then, cut cotton cloth and use spray glue to glue the cut sections of cloth directly onto the front and back of the vacuformed sections.  Leave just enough overcut so that it can be folded over the top and bottom edges and you can lay your rigging line into the fold and let dry.  Some sales have indentations in them caused by would-be rigging on top of the sail.  One could lay a riggin line along the crease/indentation to show that riggin aspect.

I would try this if I had an extra set of sails for my 1:96 scale Constitution but i wanted to hear if anyone here tried that first.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, March 24, 2006 4:52 PM

That might work, but I can see some problems.

First - I'm no expert on spray adhesive, but most of the brands I've seen contain pretty potent solvents of one kind or another.  Vac-formed styrene doesn't like stuff like that.  I'd be concerned about dissolving it.  Quite a few different spray adhesives are on the market; some of them probably are gentler than others.  Beware of the ones that are described as "temporary" or "adjustable," though; they usually cut loose after a few months.  There may be a spray adhesive that will work on vac-formed plastic, but I'd certainly want to do a lot of experimenting.

Second - one of the big problems with any sail material is that, almost by definition, it's out of scale.  Think of how thick an actual piece of sailcloth is, and divide it by 96.  A sail on 1/96 scale would be only a few thousandths of an inch thick.  The vac-formed plastic in itself is probably a little too thick.  What counts in such matters, of course, is what looks right to your eye - not what the micrometer says.  But apply two layers of cloth and two layers of adhesive to a sheet of vac-formed styrene and fold the edges over, and you've got a sail that may be ten or twenty times the scale thickness.  That, I'm afraid, would be pretty obvious.  I'd also be concerned that all those thicknesses of material would destroy, or at least reduce, the translucency that, to my eye, is one of the few virtues that vac-formed sails have.

Third - such a sail would be mighty heavy.  That might not be a major problem on a topsail or topgallant, or even a course, whose lower corners can be adjusted by means of the tacks and sheets.  But I'd be concerned that jibs and staysails would make the rigging sag too much to look at all realistic.

All this discussion has made my senile brain play around a bit with some ideas.  I continue to think that high-quality paper - drafting vellum, for instance - might offer an acceptable solution.  It's occurred to me that, given the quality of modern adhesives, it just might be possible, on 1/96 scale, to cut strips of paper to the width of scale cloths (about two feet, generally speaking) and glue them together at the edges with the scale amount of overlap.  The paper could be tinted before the "cloths" were cut out (to keep the tinting medium from interfering with the adhesive), and the "stitches" could be applied with a fine pencil.  (Pentel makes brown lead for its .05 mm mechanical pencils.)  The various reinforcing cloths could take the form of additional layers of paper. 

I don't know whether that idea would actually work, but it might be worth playing around with.  I would, however, try it first on a small ship with just a few sails - NOT a Constitution or Cutty Sark.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:39 AM
Hi: You got a lot of valuable information. However, let me add that for me vacuum formed sails are not that bad. I for one stain the sails to give them a weathered appearance. For this I use some kind of washing (solvent and paint; I often use the dirt and ingredients remaining in the can where I happen to clean my brushes).

However, I agree a pure white vacuum formed sail looks awful but a weathered one is not that bad.  At least in my uneducated low builder eyes.

Regards,
Katzennahrung

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Dansville, MI
Posted by LAV driver on Monday, March 27, 2006 10:28 AM

I wish I had heard of your technique before I started painting. I also don't mind the look of those sails and I am sure a stain would tint them nicely without the brush marks I made. As an update, I am happy to report that my experiment with the cotton and the fabric stiffener was a success and I would recommend this if anyone would like to try for billowing fabric sails.

Here is what I did in case anyone would like to give it a go:

The product I used was called "Crafter's Pick" and I bought it at the Hobby Lobby store in the fabric dye section. Honestly, I think it is just diluted white glue but it seemed to be the proper mix of glue and water. I also asked for the lightest white cotton fabric they had and bought a square yard. Then I dyed it lightly with tan fabric dye and ironed the cloth flat to get the wrinkles out. My next step was to cut the cloth in little squares, wet with water and smooth them out on the vacuum-formed sails (I am building the Lindberg "Captain Kidd", by the way). I used a paint brush and brushed the stiffener onto the cloth and let it dry. I noticed that my cloth was thin enough to pick up the shapes of the reef points and sail seams. When the cotton dried, the glue was invisible and I was able to peel the stiffened cotton off the vacuum-formed sails and cut it to shape. I like the way the sails look when the light shines through and I used a brown marker to color in the reef points. I like the idea about tying thread through the sails for these reef points. Unfortunately, I read this after I laid on with my marker! Perhaps on my next model I will try this. I am not too fussy yet since I am eager to see my ship finished. I know there are other sail details I could model but I am content with my present efforts. I am now tying the sails onto the yards and my ship seems to be coming to life! I can't wait to get started on the rigging.

I found that the weight of my cotton sails was actually a little less than the weight of the vacuum-formed plastic ones and I know a previous poster was concerned about weight on the plastic yards. This shouldn't discourage anyone to try as long as a thin fabric is used. I think my cotton was about the same thickness as a handkerchief, as a reference.

I hope this post helps anyone who may be looking for an alternative to the vacuum-formed sails. I promise I will post pictures of my sails in the future so you all can see how they look. Thanks for all the great posts. I am learning as I go and appreciate all the experienced advice.

Devin

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:17 PM

one of the big problems with any sail material is that, almost by definition, it's out of scale.  Think of how thick an actual piece of sailcloth is, and divide it by 96.  A sail on 1/96 scale would be only a few thousandths of an inch thick.

Actually, the sail would be no more than one thousandth of an inch thick, with most of the seams being no more than four thousandths. If sail material is "out of scale" in 1/96, you can understand my difficulty in building a willow tree in 1/87 scale, where the individual branches would be .003" at the largest. I'm still looking for materials to accomplish that little trick.

Pete

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:35 PM

The thickness of sailcloth varies, of course, from ship to ship, sail to sail, and time period to time period.  I could (with some difficulty) be made to believe that the thickest portion of a big sail on a big ship might be as thick as half an inch.  (That's in some area of a nineteenth-century "storm sail" where there are three thicknesses of canvas - a reef band, for example.)  On 1/96 scale that translates into about .005".  That's about the thickness of the styrene Revell uses for its vac-form sails.  But most areas of most sails would be thinner than that.

Thickness of material is a difficult thing for the human eye to judge, and modelers constantly, if unknowingly, exploit that fact.  (How thick is the steel plating on a gun tub of a WWII battleship?  Reduced to 1/350 scale, about the only material that could reproduce it accurately would be aluminum foil, which isn't rigid enough to support itself.)  I don't suggest that all potential sailmaking materials be rejected because they're too thick.  My guess is that, to the eyes of most observers, anything from .005" down would be believable. 

Most of my reservations about sails on models are based on other considerations.  Just yesterday I was reading a famous book about ship modeling, Dr. R.C. Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast.  Anderson devotes a whole chapter to sailmaking, but starts it out by "strongly advising" that sails only be fitted to models on 1/48 scale or larger.  That book was first published in 1927, but I'm inclined to agree.  I emphasize again, though, that I regard the decision as a completely personal one, to be made by the individual modeler.  I'm always interested in seeing how other modelers handle the problem.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:37 AM
 LAV driver wrote:
<>I wish I had heard of your technique before I started painting. I also don't mind the look of those sails and I am sure a stain would tint them nicely without the brush marks I made. As an update, I am happy to report that my experiment with the cotton and the fabric stiffener was a success and I would recommend this if anyone would like to try for billowing fabric sails.


Hello: But make sure you start experimenting beforehand a little bit since I cannnot give any guarantee for all the solvents. Could be that some solvents are detrimental for vac-fromed sails.

You also need some layers of stain in order to get an acceptable effect.

I got the idea of staining sails from the quick-builder kit-box of my USS Constitution from Revell.

Btw: I recall from a second source that IMAI put better sail material into its kit box. Anyone any first hand experience with this? Or is this just rumor?

I agree with Prof. jtilley that often sails on model ships are not appropiate. However, for me as a low-builder sails could also mean that they will often hide a simplified rigging which will stay out good in a properly rigged model ship.

Oh man, I would very much appreciate it to have some better knowledge of rigging techniques.


Regards,
Kater Katze Felix
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