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Questions About Using Oil Paints to Weather AFVs

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  • Member since
    February, 2018
Questions About Using Oil Paints to Weather AFVs
Posted by milwaukeejohn on Monday, March 05, 2018 6:42 AM

(I just posted this in the armor forum as well.)

I am just getting back into AFV modeling after a several decades-long hiatus, and I am pleasantly flabbergasted by all the new weathering techniques, products, and ”how-to” resources that are now available.

The use of oil paints is one area that has me a bit confused.  My first question is, what exactly is “mapping” and can someone point me to a good tutorial?  I see it referenced in Panzer Aces and other publication, and it appears to be a method for using oil paints to get fantastic looking oil, rust, grime, etc. streaks.

My second question is about oil paint brands.  Quite a few articles in Panzer Aces and FSM list “Titan” oil paints under mediums/brands used for weathering.  They have great, exotic names like “rust green,” “pink earth transparent“ and “shadow burnt sienna.”  However, for the life of me I cannot find them online.  Is Titan an actual brand of oil paints?  If yes, is that one of the better brands to use and where do I find them?  Any other oil paint brand recommendation?

Thanks! - John from Milwaukee

 

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Monday, March 05, 2018 10:36 PM

John, welcome back to the hobby.  Like you it has been a few decades for me also.

I been at this for 5 years now and I never heard of rust green or pink earth nor shadow burnt sienna, but I heard and own the color "burnt sienna".  Nor have I ever heard mapping unless that is another name for weathering.

There a alot of paint brands out there along with washes, filters, pigments and effects.  I suggest you go to you-tube to learn about all of the products out there and how they are applied and used to get the effect you are looking for. 

I used Tamiya, Vallejo, MIG, AK, Mission, White Ensign, Humbol paints, and sometimes primer I picked up at the auto parts store. A lot of modelers just go to their local art store and purchase pigments, oil and acrylic paint in tubes and thin them down to make their own washes, filters, etc..

I suggest you start with a Tamiya AFV kit, follow their coloring instructions.  If you want the AFV to look weathered instead of new out of the factory then this is where you add washes, pin washes, filters, dot filters, pigments etc..  This is where You-Tube comes in handy.  I didn't have a clue about any of it until I started watching other modelers assemble, paint and weather their AFV.  After a couple of hundred hours of videos, and numerous AFV and ships I think I am getting the hang of it, but I still watching new videos every week looking for a new item, paint, glue or proceedures that will make me a better modeler.

Start small and go slowly and try something new with each build. Before you know it you will be impressing yourself with what you just did. Most important is to enjoy the build, you will run into problems, and make the stupidest errors, we all do.  Use the forums, everybody here wants to help and have the experience. 

See you around.

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by milwaukeejohn on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 7:03 AM
What I nice welcome, thanks Marcus. Filters, pin washes...I certainly have my work cut out for me, but no complaints whatsoever! It’s great to be back.
  • Member since
    September, 2016
  • From: Albany, New York
Posted by ManCityFan on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 8:35 AM

Yup, there is a lot to take in.  Youtube is your friend.  Do a search, and you will be surprised how many excellent tutorials are out there.

Learning how to use oil paints for weathering is definitely a skill worth developing.  I am certainly no expert, but am starting to get the idea.  It does take some practice to get the paint to do what you want it to, but I enjoyed the experimentation.

I didn't worry that much about what brand of oil paint I got.  I just went to a local art store, and loaded up on multiple colors of the least expensive oils they had.  I also bought some Mona Lisa, which is an odorless mineral spirit, as the thinner. 

It is a very good idea to put a clear coat on the kit prior to attempting to use oils to weather.  You want to protect your base coat from the oil paint thinner.

Welcome back!

Dwayne or Dman or just D.  All comments are welcome on my builds. 

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by milwaukeejohn on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:11 AM

Thank you ManCityFan.  I need to get off topic for a minute to give a heart-felt ”thank you” to you and this modeling community.  To make a long story short, my wife and I have four boys, I have a job that requires me to travel a lot for work, and for many years I didn’t have a lot of free time for hobbies.  Back in October I was diagnosed with cancer.  I guess if there is a bright side to what I am going through, I now have a lot of free at home.  I can’t pinpoint why, but a few months ago I decided to build a 1/72 AFV after 30+ years out of the hobby. Well, two months later I am now building a dedicated hobby workshop in our basement with multiple work areas, an airbrush painting station, and reference library.  This hobby, including forums like this, have really helped me keep my mind off of cancer and stay focused on more positive things.  It also gave my two middle sons and I a great new way to spend quality time together.  Thanks to everyone here for your help with my newbie questions and for welcoming me back into modeling.

  • Member since
    September, 2016
  • From: Albany, New York
Posted by ManCityFan on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 1:58 PM

Sorry to hear about the diagnosis.  Building models is a great way to "get out of your head", since it requires focus, and the fact that you can see and hold a product of the time spent is, in my opinion, a great bonus.  It's also a LOT of fun to think about purchases of kits, tools, supplies, etc.  If you have the interest, you can spend a lot of time learning new techniques.  I think it will also help you keep a positive attitude, which can help with recovery. 

I wish I had been able to work on models with my dad.  Your sons will fondly remember spending that time with you for the rest of their lives.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.  The folks on this forum are fantastic, and are very helpful and encouraging.

 

Dwayne or Dman or just D.  All comments are welcome on my builds. 

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, March 08, 2018 7:34 AM

Fist off welcome John. Sorry to hear about your health issues but todays' medicine is getting better as we speak. I wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.

As far as the oil paints go, I use what ever is available at Hobby Lobby and I don't narrow my choices down to the more expensive dedicated  "modeling" oils and other products. As an example, I use cheap hairspray from the dollar store, decanted for AB use and get the same results as the more expensive AK chipping fluid product. Both do the same thing, only the AK costs like 7 times more what the Dollar Store hairspray can costs.

Same thing for the oil washes. I rather make my own using oil paints and Testor's or Mona Lisa thinners. Some modelers like using the commercially available products so it's a matter of taste.

There are many methods used for weathering armor and aircrafts as previously mentioned. To get the desired effects you were asking about then the dot technique is what you are looking for. This method will make those subtle rain streaks, and other tonal variations. I highly recommend to use the dot filters over a flat acrylic finish if enamels are being used. You want that acrylic coat as a barrier otherwise the enamel paint will be dissolved once the process begins. The flat finish will allow to better blend the oil paint dots. If done over a glossy finish it tends to streak and just roll off not allowing the paint to fade and blend the same.

Here is a brief description of the method done to my 1/32 Dora:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/177513.aspx?page=4

I know you were inquiring about armor but this is current and works the same for both armor and planes.

Hope this helps out some.

For some reason I can't get to post as direct link to the pictures. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by milwaukeejohn on Thursday, March 08, 2018 8:48 AM

Thank you, plasticjunkie!  GREAT suggestion!  I do planes as well, so double thanks.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, March 08, 2018 1:16 PM

I have always applied my dot filters to a gloss finish and have got good result. My first few builds always came out on the heavy side, but after some trial and error and figured out how adjust it to get different results.

I took my lessons on dot filters from Bil Plunk. Rather than use blues, reds white etc, i use browns, orches, grey and so on depending on the scheme of the vehicle.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, March 08, 2018 2:22 PM

Bish

I have always applied my dot filters to a gloss finish and have got good result. My first few builds always came out on the heavy side, but after some trial and error and figured out how adjust it to get different results.

I took my lessons on dot filters from Bil Plunk. Rather than use blues, reds white etc, i use browns, orches, grey and so on depending on the scheme of the vehicle.

 

Colors used depends on the look you want. Earth colors for dirt and grime. Reds and oranges for rust streaks. Greens, blues, etc for tonal changes on dark base coats. 

The weathering part in modeling  can be quite challenging with so many methods  like hair spray, salt, washes, filters, marbling, drybrushing and so on.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by RinnyR on Saturday, April 14, 2018 10:03 PM

A hearty welcome, John! Good vibes and wishes to a full and speedy recovery.  This place is great, the peeps here very generous and kind and patient with their advice and skills. I know you'll find a home here. As a noob to the hobby just a year ago myself, ive learned tons from the great folks here!

By the way, I use 502 Abteilung oils and love them. I learned about them on YouTube back when I was first learning about using oils for weathering, and I went looking for them and couldn't find them at any hobby or art stores. I finally found them online and wound up ordering them from Spain. The website was great, the people were awesome, and the oils are fantastic. They are custom designed for weathering models and figures, and they have great colors for weathering, as well as sci-fi effects, which is my model of choice. Feel free to check them out. I think you'll enjoy using them, though I hear standard artist oils that you can get from Hobby Lobby work great too. Cheers!

  • Member since
    August, 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:42 AM

Welcome Sign

Good questions that I have been wondering about myself. 

Like you I also have restarted the hobby, albeit 4 years ago ,and marvel at the current level of craftsmanship of our colleages.  Good advice to try something new at each build which I've done and am still doing myself. 

Don't get too caught up in the miriad of oil paint brands. i am now working on the "oil paint weathering thing" so I went to Hobby Lobby and bought 3 quality tubes of paint ( black, white and burnt sienna).  By quality  I mean more expensive brands ,in my case Windsor and Newton, and some Testor's thinner in the red can recommended by Plastic Junkie on here. So at first, keep it simple and "graduate " from there. 

I have been following Will Pattison on Youtube trying to emulate his incredible results and falling short so far but with practice ......

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

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