Wash problems

What sort of paint and what sort of thinner did you use for your wash?

With an acrylic base, you should be using an oil paint or enamel based wash. If you are using an acrylic and acrylic thinner for your wash, it will simply eat straight through your Future and base coats, right down to bare plastic, in a heartbeat.

Ditto to what Phil said. 

Personally, for washes, I use either Promodeller/Flory washes or oils thinned with Mona Lisa Odorless thinner exclusively. The first is clay-based and wipes away with water. And the Mona Lisa is so gentle I've used it over enamels without problems. 

Ditto both above- if you are using alcohol as a thinner then it will eat right through the Future.  I have 2 alternatives:

 

1:  use an enamel based wash over future- enamel paint with mineral spirit thinner.  This is if you use Acrylic paint.

 

2.  I use enamel paints as my primary coats.  I then coat with future and use a wash that is a mix of acrylic paint, distilled water, and dish soap.  Roughly 90% water, 5% paint and 5% dish soap.  With this mix you can simply wipe up the excess wash, the dishsoap prevents the paint from bonding and allows for it to be wiped off with cotton swabs.

 

Good luck!

Thank you very much for the replies guys. I used acrylic for the base paint AND for the wash, with Mr. Color Thinner 250 as the "thinners" for the wash. I'm guessing this is where i went wrong, by using this thinner. I don't want to change from using acrylic paints for base and washes. From the information provided it looks like my best option is to just use water and dish washing soap as thinners. At least that way, I am dealing with less chemicals, unless someone is going to tell me that even with water for thinners, I still should NOT be using acrylic for washes over Future.

I guess this raises another question.... if I'm using acrylic washes with water and soap for thinners, is there any point in using Future instead of using a clear gloss paint? Future is very hard to find in Australia.

Once again, thank you for the speedy replies and information guys

Ohh dear, Mr Color thinner is more or less a lacquer thinner - it wouldn't matter if your base coat was acrylic or enamel, it would eat straight through that too. You are using Mr Color thinner (Blue/yellow label) and not the Mr Hobby Aqueous thinner (blue/green label) aren't you? (Note that the "250" is the size of the jar and does not have any other particular significance)

If you don't want to mess around with more chemicals, yes, your best option is to stick with water and dish soap.

Overseas, people use Future because it's an inexpensive and readily available alternative to "hobby" clearcoats. Here in Australia, we don't have a direct equivalent to Future. We do have Pledge One Go, which is similar, but not the same. I have tried it and didn't like the results. If I want to apply a clear gloss coat, I just use Tamiya X-22 Clear gloss.

After using acrylics as the main paint type for a number of years, this is the method I've arrived at when using a wash just to fill in fine lines and such details (assuming this is what you intended to do by wanting to wipe off the wash). After the clear coat of future has dried for at least 24hrs, the wash is also made with acrylic paint, thinned with water and a little dish soap. Apply it with a brush only to the specific areas you want it, but it doesn't have to be neat. Once sufficiently dry (don't wait overnight) use a small piece of cloth, an old t-shirt works great, dip it in water and start wiping. A few wipes should do it, any more and you ar lible to wear out the clear coat. For larger models probably best to work in sections. Even for 1/48 scale aircraft, I'll cover one wing, let dry, wipe, proceed to opposite wing then the obverse side. regards, Jack

Phil_H

You are using Mr Color thinner (Blue/yellow label) and not the Mr Hobby Aqueous thinner (blue/green label) aren't you? (Note that the "250" is the size of the jar and does not have any other particular significance)

 

Roger that.

All I can say is "I wish I didn't take a 25 year break from modelling.". There is so much to learn and so many questions to ask. Thank you again guys.

I did find somewhere in Australia that you can buy Future from, tho it's NOT cheap!

http://www.beadznjewelz.com.au/product.php?productid=1479&cat=0&page=1

 

 

Gambled

I did find somewhere in Australia that you can buy Future from, tho it's NOT cheap!

http://www.beadznjewelz.com.au/product.php?productid=1479&cat=0&page=1

 

Wow That's expensive!

Like Phil_H said, you can (or at least used to be able to) buy a similar product here called Pledge One Go.  I once picked up a bottle from Woolworths about 4 years ago.  Since then, i've checked every Woolworths, Coles, Bunnings and Mitre 10 in my area and also some on the Gold Coast and haven't found it again.  

I use it only to dip my canopies prior to masking - as i didn't have good results when i tried to use as a clear coat.

I use Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo gloss clears.  For a wash i use Humbrol enamel thinned with Tamiya enamel thinner. 

If you do like Future, it might be cheaper to buy a large bottle on amazon.com.  I've never bought from Amazon, but I assume they have a decent reputation for delivery and secure payment over the internet.

Also, welcome to the forum.  Great to see another Queenslander on here

cml

 

Also, welcome to the forum.  Great to see another Queenslander on here

 

Thank you.

cml

I use Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo gloss clears.  For a wash i use Humbrol enamel thinned with Tamiya enamel thinner. 

Just so I have this perfectly clear, if I use Tamiya acrylic clear, then wash with the Humbrol enamel / Tamiya enamel thinner mix , it will not effect the clear coat when wiped off? Would it effect the Future? Sorry for asking questions that have no doubt been asked many times before, but I just want to make sure I have this wash technique sorted out. Alot of trouble just so I can see the difference between "thinners washes" and "water washes" with my own eyes. In the end I'm guessing there will be little difference but I "just have to know". :)

In a perfect world the enamel thinner would not effect the Acrylic paint or gloss coat...  unfortunately, it is not always a perfect world!  I have had it eat the future away in the past, though I think the main problem was insufficient cure time- I only gave it 24 hours.

 

If you are going to use enamel thinner as a wash thinner over an acrylic clear-coat my only caution would be to make sure you give sufficient cure time- 48 hours minimum, 72 even better.

 

That said, I will say again- the acrylic paint thinned with water and dish soap does an EXCELLENT job and will NOT eat into a cured clear coat- enamel or acrylic.  Whats more, you can use it for not only a pin wash but also a filter...  if you apply it to areas you want to look "dirty" you just wipe it in the direction of airflow and it will simulate dirt streaks.  It also works great on landing gears- smear it all over them and then wipe the exposed surfaces, it will remain in all the nooks-and-crannies creating a realistic dirty look for landing gear.

 

Good luck.

Gambled

cml:

I use Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo gloss clears.  For a wash i use Humbrol enamel thinned with Tamiya enamel thinner. 

 

Just so I have this perfectly clear, if I use Tamiya acrylic clear, then wash with the Humbrol enamel / Tamiya enamel thinner mix , it will not effect the clear coat when wiped off? Would it effect the Future? Sorry for asking questions that have no doubt been asked many times before, but I just want to make sure I have this wash technique sorted out. Alot of trouble just so I can see the difference between "thinners washes" and "water washes" with my own eyes. In the end I'm guessing there will be little difference but I "just have to know". :)

Gambled,

That is correct.

I don't know if it will affect the Future, I haven't used it specifically.

Also, make sure it's a proprietary enamel thinner made for hobby paints.  Don't do what i did and try to save a few dollars by using Turps, it will just eat away the underlying paints too.

I normally wipe away within a few minutes of applying the wash, using cotton tips.  Good quality kitchen papertowel can also work (but will leave some paper particles).  Avoid toilet paper - it tends to leave a mess of particles after you wipe away.

Hope this helps.

Look forward to seeing some of your future builds.

 

cml

Also, make sure it's a proprietary enamel thinner made for hobby paints.  Don't do what i did and try to save a few dollars by using Turps, it will just eat away the underlying paints too.

Chris,

You can use White Spirits, which is pretty much the same stuff as most hobby branded enamel thinners. It's a little more refined and less "raw" than Turps and is about $5.00 a litre from Bunnings. (40ml of Tamiya enamel thinner costs moe than $5.,00) It doesn't affect cured Tamiya acrylics in the slightest.

It also works for most oils, if you use oil paint based washes. If you find the smell objectionable, there is also "Art Spectrun" branded Odourless Solvent which will also work with oils, but not with enamels. This does not affect cured Tamiya acrylics either. Keep in mind that though you can't smell this one, it still gives off vapours, so don't forget the ventilation.

Phil,

Thanks for the heads up on White Spirits.  I've heard of it before - i was told of a technique whereby you can grind up pastel powders, mix with White Spirits and then apply for a good mud wash around tracks and wheels.  I was told it dries relatively quickly and just leaves the powder residue behind.

Not sure how this is any different to using water, so i never bothered to go out and buy any.

Now that i know it can be used as a cheaper alternative to enamel thinner, i think i'll get myself a bottle next weekend.