weathering help - I'm still not getting results

Add some powders/chalks of various shades.  Try to get a little less dullcoat on it.  Are you using a brush for all your painting?  An airbrush really helps with the weathering - you can get far lighter layers that way.

I can still see a bit of the grey under the dull coat, but at this point, I'd add some pastel greys (dark & light) & umbers (use a sanding stick on the pastels, moving about the model, or get a makeup brush set to apply the pastels), then try a rattle can dull from about 10" away, moving rapidly if you don't have an airbrush.

Reid

I did use an airbrush, but I also put on a pretty heavy coat of dull.  I have had the same problem with pastel chalk, that when I put the dull-coat on it absorbs  all the chalk.  I very much like the effects I can get from chalk, but have never been able to seal them with anything.

Thanks for the help. 

Try investing in some Mig pigments or the similar ones offered by Vallejo, etc. I've found them to be far more controllable than chalk, easier to "work in", and more resilient to sealing. 

Get comfortable with just adding dust n' mud.

Dot filtering and panel highlights are advanced techniques that require a good understanding of the basics first. Go with what looks realistic to you, use reference photographs or even construction equipment to get started.

Even though dot filters and the such are in vogue right now they can be overdone and take away from a realistic scale miniature. Look at the models featured in European magazines, they look spectacular yet its my opinion most have to much 'effect'.

A good rule of thumb is to stop when you think it needs a bit more.

SuppressionFire

A good rule of thumb is to stop when you think it needs a bit more.

Good advice.  That is a lesson I sorely wish I could learn!  

Do you seal your dust n mud?  If so, how and with what?  My pastels typically disappear under a clear coat.

DoogsATX

Try investing in some Mig pigments or the similar ones offered by Vallejo, etc. I've found them to be far more controllable than chalk, easier to "work in", and more resilient to sealing. 

Man, every time I start looking at the pigments they are so damn expensive, and not exactly easy to find.  I can find MIG and Vallejo, but $7 and up, and then $4 - 8 for shipping.  I'll have to stop by the LHS and see what he carries.

I have had decent luck on aircraft when I have worked the pastels into the surface, but no luck at all if I only dust them on.  How are applying?  LIghtly? working them in?

As always, thanks DoogsATX

mgh

 

DoogsATX:

 

Try investing in some Mig pigments or the similar ones offered by Vallejo, etc. I've found them to be far more controllable than chalk, easier to "work in", and more resilient to sealing. 

 

 

Man, every time I start looking at the pigments they are so damn expensive, and not exactly easy to find.  I can find MIG and Vallejo, but $7 and up, and then $4 - 8 for shipping.  I'll have to stop by the LHS and see what he carries.

I have had decent luck on aircraft when I have worked the pastels into the surface, but no luck at all if I only dust them on.  How are applying?  LIghtly? working them in?

As always, thanks DoogsATX

I buy mine direct from Mig. $5.75 and unless you're just dumping them on a kit they last a looooong time. 

My application depends a lot on what I'm going for. Sometimes I'll brush them on, work them in, and streak them. Then fix them with Mona Lisa Odorless Thinner. Sometimes I'll put them in the thinner and wash them on. Sometimes I'll build them up slowly, or in layers. 

If I want mud, I'll mix them with acrylic medium, dirt, and Future. 

As a rule, I only put them over flat or semi-gloss coats. They hold much better. 

With aircraft, I mostly use pigments for exhausts...the Spitfire's was fun because period photos show the very distinctive gray with downstreaking. 

I'm actually planning to field pigments pretty extensively in my PV-1 weathering, if you want to follow along in the Way Too Many Props GB...

Excellent work & examples of realistic weathering Doogs!

Whoa, that tank is beautiful!  All the different shades you get is really very nice.  Thanks for posting the pictures.

So what is the conclusion on what happened to the oils I put on?  Does the clear coat actually cover the oils?  So the clear is not completely clear (especially when I put it on as heavy as I did)?

I can understand the chalks being absorbed by the clear coat, and essentially disappearing, but I don't understand the oils disappearing under the clear coat.

My LHS did not have any weathering powders/pigment, but said he usually does, and will order some in to have in stock.  I did not ask him what brand he usually carried.

DoogsATX, did you seal the pigments on the tank?  

OMCUSNR: I am doing an experiment today with chalks, and putting on a much lighter dull coat to see what happens.

Thanks for all the help. 

Honestly I have no idea why the oils would disappear under a clear coat. BUT I generally prefer to use enamel or lacquer clear coats since they tend to behave far more consistently. 

As for sealing pigments, I generally apply them last and don't seal them with a clear coat, per se. I'll dab them with thinner to fix them, or sometimes mist them with thinner shot through the airbrush. Have to be careful with that one, though, since too much flow can cause them to run. But it can be great for that kind of mottled/faded effect if that's what you're after.

I hesitated starting a new thread, as this is still the same issue, just a different kit.

What I have done above is used a mixture of white glue and water, brushed it on a small area at a time, and then taped pastel chalk mixture on, some places very heavily, other places not so much.  Hopefully you can tell what I was trying to accomplish.  I am not going after mud.  Mud is much simpler (I think).  All I am trying to do is dirty up the undercarriage.  This is all done with one color mixture.

Is this still too stark?  Too much?  Should I be trying to work the chalk into the surface rather than dropping it onto the fixer?   This obliterated all the dry brushing I did around the leaf springs.

I will try a different approach with the upper surfaces.  Should have one bottle of weathering pigment in the mail today, and LHS says he will be getting some in.

Thanks!

I don't like using the dot system over gloss. I use clear acrylic flat which helps the oil paints blend in better and smoother. You remove most of the paint but leave just a subtle hint to break up the solid basecoat color.

I'm not a weathering expert, but I have done some.  I think "subtle" is the key word.  At scale, dust and dirt and mud (unless we're talking thick caked on stuff) would have almost no discernible depth difference.  Think of the dirtiest car you've ever seen, there may be a few places where the dirt is a 1/4 inch thick, but mostly the dirt layer is much thinner.  Reduce that 1/4" to 1/35 scale and it is less then 0.2 millimeters thick.

I use plain pastel chalk from the craft store. Grind it into a fine powder and really work it into a flat finish on the model.  The idea is to discolor the paint already there, not have the powder just sit on the surface.  A light sealer coat usually doesn't diminish it too much.  If you are building up a lot of mud, the pastel chalks don't do so well.

Paul

padakr

The idea is to discolor the paint already there, not have the powder just sit on the surface.

Paul

I think that is one of the key things I am missing.   I picked up some weathering powders, and they do seem to adhere better the the chalks.  I will work on working them in to achieve color variation.