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Zimmer-IT

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Zimmer-IT
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 11:11 AM
HiSign - Welcome [#welcome],
This will go with the pictures under Zimmerit in my picture file down below.
First off I have to say I wish I could take the credit for inventing this system of applying Zimm but, Alas! it's not to be, almost everything I have done is the result of reading other builders sites, there are a few little things I have found out by trial and error that was not mentioned,(probably because they didn't expect to have someone as thickheaded as me trying it.) This process involves the use of Milliput Super Fine White.
These are the basic tools I needed to get the putty ready to apply:
The putty
A glass or marble flat surface (I got a glass cutting board from Wal_Mart for about $3.00)
Talcum powder
Single edge razor
Medium size paint brush
round toothpicks
Bowl of water
About 6-8 inches of PVC pipe, I use 1/2 inch.
Small S/C,(screwdriver) mine is almost an 1/8 inch wide, I filed down some of the thickness, one day soon I will invest in a Zimm tool because it will last forever, hopefully.
1. Spread some talc onto the flat surface.
2. Get your putty, pull the plastic covering down a little ways off of the sticks of putty, cut equal parts off of the sticks (it comes with excellent instructions)
3. Knead the 2 pieces together WELL! Thoroughly mix it with your fingers, takes me about a minute, (actually working this just like bread or pasta dough)
4. Place the mixed putty onto the talc on the surface and roll it around, the idea is to keep it covered with powder, a much better builder told me he just uses water but it's way too messy for me.
5. Cover the PVC pipe (roller) with powder, press down on the putty and roll in ONE direction only, if you roll back and forth it WILL stick to the roller. Turn the putty over and making sure it is covered in powder roll 90 degrees from your first direction (spreading, widening the putty out, just like bread dough). Turn it over and repeat till the putty is almost paper thin, I read "paper" thin but... it tears on me when I start applying the Zimm pattern so I go a little thicker.
6. Cut the putty to the size and shape you desire, I have no luck slicing it, it just pulls with the blade, I "chop" it down the length I want (just pressing down with the razor and then moving down and pressing down again,"chop") Now get the powder OFF of the putty, I use a couple of methods, just dunk the piece you are going to use in the bowl of water or wet the piece and blot on a towel, whatever you do just get tthe powder pretty much off (the putty will not stick to the model with talc on it.)
7. Wet the piece of putty you are going to apply and put it on the model where you want it. If it is not an exact fit your screwed! NO, just kidding!!Wink [;)]Clown [:o)] Sry, I have an overabundance of humorWhistling [:-^] *clears throat* If not an exact fit, no biggie, thats what I use the brush for, it not only smooths out the putty, it removes finger prints and cleans up the mess but I can spread the putty to where I need it but I won't do it past about an 1/8 of an inch, I just add another little piece there, the brush, while wet, will spread the putty to an edge or where ever you need it, just don't go too far or you will thin it out so much it will tear.
8. When you need extra pieces to make the putty fill in where you want, just cut it to shape and following the "no powder" hint, apply it and "weld" it to the original piece by using the wet brush or wet finger, the flat of the S/C works great also, one day I am going to invest in a tiny version of the tools Masons use in spreading mortar(trowels?). If you need putty in a tiny little space, just pick off a little piece and "mush" it in there with the S/C or toothpick.
9. If you have a piece that overlaps where you want it, try to CUT the excess off, try not to PULL it off, as thin as it is the putty is very strong and it will tear unevenly.
10. O.K., now you have the area filled in but there is putty where you do not want it, at least I do. That is where the brush comes into its own, wet it in the bowl of water, getting all the putty out of it by wiping it on a towel and repeating till it's clean, wet it again and then blot it on the towel to get the excess water out but you still want it wetConfused [%-)], carefully start "cleaning" up the area you want "putty free", clean brush, repeat, it will take all the wet mess and putty off! Great for cleaning the edges and nuts and bolt heads and any protrusions, just wet brush the "milk" and putty off, you will see what I mean.
A little piece of T-shirt helps also, sometimes wrapped around a toothpick.
11. Now then, you have applied, contoured, smoothed, and cleaned the area, "phew"! Guess what you get to do now?!Big Smile [:D]
12. I am using a S/C so this is how I am doing it for now 'till I find something better. Get the S/C and position the model in an advantageous position, I also have to use one of those magnifying glass that has a light in it, with my face stuck to the magnifier I start on one side of the putty area and pointing the S/C in a kinda 45 degree upward posistion (check photos of Zimm on Tiger 1s) I start to press the S/C into the putty, then immediatly below that "jab" I do another, then another, then an...oh! Sry, Got carried away there.
Go down (or up) till you have finished that row, now go back to where you started that row and right next to it press the S/C into the putty, I actually
TOUCH the previous "jab", repeat the "process". What is so cool is that it makes the putty "squeeze UP in that vertical line you see in the photos, as opposed to the method of using a "toothed" tool, like a saw blade. I tried it and it is much faster but... when it comes time to put the vertical lines in you use something like a very dull razor blade and press in the vertical lines, if u build airplanes it is like the differance between "recessed" and ribbed panel lines, one looks realistic, the other does not (this only applies to the horizontal version of Zimm that was applied to Tigers) . O.K., when you start to jab in the Zimm you will get the hang of it immediatly and start to wonder why you didn't do this before. Don't go too fast, I did on the front of mine and I was nervous to boot because I had this stupid idea that a new guy like me might be able to help someone out in this awesome organization so I got nervous and went too fast, but I promise you will like my turret and sidesSmile [:)]
Don't cover too big an area, the front of mine was almost too big!! I have read that you can work with this putty up to 3 hours, not me, in an air conditioned room I have just over an hour before it starts to become too hard. The front you see took me an hour fron the time I put the glass surface on the table till the last "jab", including picture taking time. Just do increments till you think you can do..whatever. I also read that you need to "rough" up the surface, doesn't apply to me ,..so far. As long as the surface is clean and there is very little talc on the putty. O.K., you are done!! Here are a few sites I like, One even has the ONLY running Tiger 1!!
http://tiger1.info/saumur/english/couleurs.html
http://www.alanhamby.com/gallery.html
http://www.tigertank-h-e-181.com
Search tiger1.info
Thankyou everyone for allowing me to help out, At least I hope I did.

[red]An addendum:
1.) IF the putty pulls away while you are "jabbing" in the Zim pattern let it dry a little more, it has just happened to me, I let it cure for a few minutes and it did just fine, apparently there is a period in between "wet" and "acceptable", where it is "tacky".
2.) Battle Damage: If you want to add this to the zimm, it is best to do it BEFORE it driesWink [;)].
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:13 AM
Bow [bow]
Thankyou so much for your efforts mate !! That is a great article !! I was actually afraid to attempt a zimmerit finish before reading your method described !!

Really looking forward to trying it out ... now all I need is a nice Tiger kit ... any suggestions mate ??

Cheers
Vasso
Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:16 AM
Actually, the King Tiger (Henschel Turret) Battle of the Bulge series DML kit looks pretty good .. comes with brass and 8 figures ...

Vasso
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:46 AM
G'day Vasso, I like the way ya'll have that greeting.Cool [8D], Thx for the kind words, I was 'bout to give up the hope it would help anybody. Sry, I have not checked out the King Tiger yet, but this kit I am building is totally awesome. It also has brass fittings, like white metal parts, photo etched parts, and turned brass and aluminium (the barrel), looks like over a hundred metal parts!! According to one review it has over 1,100 pieces in the kit! I haven't counted themWink [;)] Not to mention metal tow cables and individual tracks![:0]. I am not trying to turn you off the King but I don't know if any tank kit comes with so much metal and ind. tracks without having to buy 'em aftermarket. LOL, it would be better to go to http:/www.track-link.net/reviews/k1521 or http:/www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/german/dragontiger_fedsisto.html 'stead of listening to me ramble on. Hey Vasso, if you need any help on the Zimm or whatever just come back here and ask, I would be glad to help in anyway I can. Of course any one of the builders in this community is better than I am.
Good luck to you Vasso in your endeavor no matter what you pick.Big Smile [:D]
Be good and have fun,
Bill
DOH!Banged Head [banghead] The kit I am building is the Dragon 3-in-1 Tiger 1 Late Production, kit # 6253.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:19 PM
Where can I get Talcum powder and Milliput Super Fine White?

BTW: That was great help.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:26 PM
Hi Anthony14, Thankyou very muchBow [bow], The talcum powder is nothing other than the bath powder you might have at home, like baby powder, etc.., IF you have none at home when you go to the store go to the pharmacy or bath section and look for the body powders, Johnson&Johnson, Equate, etc.. it is very cheap and lasts forever (if no one uses it after their bath/showerWink [;)], now, the Milliput is a little more difficult, the only places I know of that have it are the LHS or a craft store such as Hobby Lobby or Michael's. I personally like it because it has enough to do a lot of armor, easy to work with and stays workable from 1&1/2 hours to 3 hours, now the lasting up to 3 hours must depend on the humidity in the air because in my workshop it is air-conditioned and the putty hardens up after 'bout an hour and a half.
Be good and have fun Anthony14,
Bill
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Clovis, Calif
Posted by rebelreenactor on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:41 PM
great tutorial!
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:40 PM
You realy think so John? Bow [bow] I was worried it might be too wordy but there are so many little things that can trip up a person (or me anywayWink [;)]) that I wanted people to understand them. O.k. then, that's all I needed to know, thx a lot and hope to talk with you again.

BillPropeller [8-]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:47 PM
Hi Bill
Thanks for your reply Thumbs Up [tup]

The kit I was refering to is also a recent release by DML, check it out here if you're interested (http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/6254-reviews-cookies.htm). Comes with a whole lot of brass, turned and etched, which is amazing considering I can buy it here in Australia for AU$49 !!! This is really cheap by our standards Cowboy [C):-)]

Sad [:(] Unfortunately, my building of a Tiger of some sort if probably months away .. I have just started Revell's new 1/32 scale He 162 ... after that I have vowed to build the DML T-34/85 (kit 6066) which is due to arrive at my door any day nowWhistling [:-^] (....waiting) ... bought it through eBay and its meant to be coming from Malaysia. So after the T-34 I will go for a Tiger and throw some Zim on it. I am itching to do that now thanks to your inspirational work !!

Hmmm ... so much to build ... so little time Disapprove [V] I am studying Law full time at Uni .. so that really eats into the day ... then there's work .. then there's gym-training ... then there's the Girlfriend who REALLY takes up the time ! LOL

Cheers Bill Mate !! PS: I'm originally from Russia, living in Australia so I especially love the way we say "Mate" over here too Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:24 AM
Hey Vasso, sounds like you WILL be busyCool [8D], How long have you been away from the Motherland? my wife is a microbiologist at NASA and she had to go to Star City a few months ago when our 'nauts went up to the station with the Russians, she had to stay there 2 weeks but had a pretty good time and brought back some cool items, and some VERY interesting storiesBig Smile [:D].
I am going to have to check out your King Tiger kit, sounds cool, I also like aircraft, heck I like 'em all! Kinda new at this model building but it is turning out to be great fun. Sounds like you are enjoying Australia, wish I was thereSigh [sigh]. Well, if you wanna discourse just let me know, if you get the time! LMAO.Big Smile [:D]
Cheers Mate!Bill
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:14 AM
Hi there Bill Thumbs Up [tup]
Man ! I wish I did something like work for NASA ! At the moment i am working part time for an electrical engineering company, in their marketing and purchasing departments .. its interesting, but i'm at a point in my life where i don't know what i want to be doing .. so have decided to stay on at Uni, do Law, and take it as it comes ...
I've been away from the "Motherland" for about 10years now ... so Brisbane, Australia is my home Smile [:)] Love it here Big Smile [:D]
Like you Bill, i've only really taken up model-making seriously since the start of this year ... I've been making the odd kit here and there for about 10 years now .. but its only recently that i've developed a real passion for the hobby .. its my creative outlet ! PLUS i cannot stop reading history books about the Second World War ... so find it really interesting to model the subjects of that era Blush [:I]

Hey, i fixed up a Ju 88 C6 today .. one that was dropped by a couple of rat-bag kids that came over to visit not long ago ... it doesnt look too bad i reckon, so might throw some pics up soon Shy [8)]

Well, thanks for listening / reading ... needed to talk / type .. lol
Cheers Bill
Vasso
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:43 AM
Mornin' Vasso, well, at least it is hereWink [;)] Nothing wrong in bein' a lawyer (*cough,cough*)Whistling [:-^], LOL, just kiddin', actually I envy you, I always wanted to be a professor in university, I love the atmosphere, but I ain't got no smarts to go with it thoDunce [D)]. Like you, I research history and am intrigued by the second world war. My main interest is geopoltitcal, I study morality, ethics, and philosophy. The human race amazes me (not necessarily in a good way).
I guess I lean toward the Machiavellian attitudeCowboy [C):-)]. But I digress, Say! I have a Me-110G nightfighter in 1/32 scale, by Revell, 'bout 7 yrs old, when I got it I thought I would like to start building models but then I decided I didn't have the time, now I do but I don't want itConfused [%-)], yes I am!Tongue [:P] If you want it I will send it to you because I will never build it so... Anyway, I would be more than happy to send it to you!Big Smile [:D]
Well, gotta go mow the lawn so my wife can find the house when she comes home from work.
Be good & have FUN,
Bill
P.S. I am going to get a tatoo... of myself... only bigger.Propeller [8-]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:41 PM
Excellent walkthrough. I'm going to be printing it out as a guide for my own zimm project.

What is talcum powder? Is it the same as baking soda?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:08 PM
Thankyew, thankyew vury muuch Zokissima, that is truly a complimentBow [bow]! There isn't a whole lot of difference between baking soda and talcum powder, as a matter fact there are some talcums that have baking soda in them, talcum powder is the bathroom powder some people use after a shower or bath, like baby powder, really feels good on hot humid days, you can find it in the bath section of a pharmacy in any store, it's a basic item, cheap, cheap, cheap. There is a big difference in chemical makeup but about the same in texture..WHOA, nevermind, just use talcum powder, I forgot, you need to use water in this process and there might be some type of reaction that might screw it up. Ever used baking soda to ease heartburn or upset stomach? if you have you will understand. I am going to try it on a test maybe tonight just to see what does happen when using baking soda. just ask the female in your house about talcum powder, she will know, or just go to the store and get baby powder, you will see the rest of the powders there also.
Well, be good and have fun Zokissima,
Bill
Oh, I installed a skylight in my bedroom......... the neighbors upstairs are furious!Propeller [8-]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:05 PM
Morning Bill
I just crawled out of bed and it's like 9:30am !! Sad [:(] I'm late for training, again !
Was up till crazy hours last night/this morning working on an essay. I'm not really the academic type, I can do the work, but 90% of the assignments i've had to do for Uni have not been that exciting for me to say the least ... Not 100% sure either if i want to be a laywer after i finish this degree .. I've actually completed a B. of International Business degree as well, so Law is now the second Black Eye [B)] At the moment i am leaning more towards the business field ... anyhoo, I'm sorry to ramble on ...

Bill, THANK YOU ! for your kind offer of that Me 110 Bow [bow] !! The Me 110 is one of my all time favourites ! I've always wanted to build the plane but cannot find any kits of it past 1/72 scale. Bill, the only thing is that i feel somewhat uncomfortable just 'taking' it from you .. please could you let me know how much $ you would like for it, as well as the postage and handling costs involved, posting to Brisbane, Australia ... apart from that YES PLEASE !!! That would be really appreciated Big Smile [:D]

Thanks again
Cheers
Vasso
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:41 PM
No biggie, it's on the way!Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:37 PM
yap, got it
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:30 AM
I went looking for talcum powder last night at a local drug store and the guy gave me a weird look. He was a couple years younger than me, in his teens, so I'll excuse the stupidity this time. Would baby powder work?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:23 AM
Exactly so, baby powder is perfect! When you find the baby powder look around, you should find the other regular powders also. But still, if you have or know where to get baby powder that is just fine.
Good luck, if there is a way I can help. don't hesitate to ask.

Bill
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 12:31 AM
The "damaged" spots are where the putty pulled away as I stated in my "addendum" in the tutorial, live and learnWink [;)]

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:31 AM
Hi Bill
Nice progress on the Zimmerit !!! Looks very realistic to me and great detail where you have depicted the putty cracking away in places !
Also VERY nice to see that you are leaving the mud guards on the Tiger !! Most of the Tigers I have seen lately are made with the guards missing all over the place ... and although In real life that may have been common, I have seen many photos of Tigers with the guards in place. So great work, it is actually original of you to leave them on Big Smile [:D]

Take it easy Bill, chat soon
Vasso
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:23 AM
Wow great job man!! I've got to send you my tiger cause I would ruin mine if I tried to zim it.Black Eye [B)] I noticed the the mud guards too. I noticed they weren't PE come on man they're preformed and everything!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:29 PM
Thx Vas, but I can't take the credit, everything I do is copied from either the real item or other builder's great work.[:)



My neighbor has a circular driveway....he never leaves.[Propeller [8-]

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 5:17 PM
Thx Marineman.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:14 PM
Ya I mean the Pe ones are there so use them and make your great model even better!
Not that the plastic ones are bad. I'm going to put the plastic ones on with blu-tac when I'm doin the zim, then but on the Pe ones later.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:02 PM
Right, Marineman.Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:03 AM
Done!! (with the Zimmerit)Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:34 AM
Hey Sonic, Your a zimmin fool!!!!!. (no offense meant, it's a compliment) Great tutorial.

You did real justice to that much ballyhooed dragon kit (did i really just say ballyhooed??!!). The damaged parts make it look more convincing to me. I would even add more damage. I can't wait to see it painted and decaled. Speaking of decals, remember you can use dry transfers instead. Lots of people use them with great results over zimm. But decals will work fine too you just need lots of that softening stuff.

I hope you take it to local shows and displays when it's done because it will be a real crowd pleaser for armor people Bow [bow]Bow [bow]Cool [8D]Thumbs Up [tup]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:02 PM
LOL, IBEAM, that is the bestest compliment!! Big Smile [:D], I just got lucky on the Zimm! You have really opened up a can of worms, I have no idea what to do 'bout the decals, what are the "dry" decals? I bought a coupla Testors' paint markers in enamel, have no idea how good they are, was going to use them for the #s', but that would also mean I could not put on the other little decals, I do have a bottle of of Microset and one of Microsol. Micro sol one says it sets to "irregular" surfaces, so I guess I will try it on the decals in the kit. AND the tracks!! I have never done ind. links before, I have read alot of sites/posts and sorta understand how to connect them, but what I really need to know is: "how to get the track onto the vehicle"!!! Well, I am sure I will figure it all out one way or another.Tongue [:P] As far as entering it into a show/contest, I am NOWHERE near the high lvl of skill you builders here at FSM are! But... one day I will be, then we will see!Wink [;)]

Thankyou for the way too generous compliment IBEAMBow [bow],

Be good and have fun,
Bill

P.s., I was driving the other day and saw this sign says "rest area next 25 miles".... I thought, "man, people must get really tired around here, that's a big rest stop!"Propeller [8-]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 8, 2005 11:56 PM
Well, finally got nerve enough to post some progress pix, Blush [:I]
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