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Gunze Aqueous Vs model master

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  • Member since
    April, 2019
Gunze Aqueous Vs model master
Posted by united2019 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 8:55 PM

both are FS35237. The mm paint is so smooth and finsih good. The Gunze one is grainy , shiny and tacky. See picture below. What is wrong with my Gunze paint? Thanks 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18K-0Lq1ZXGgrf2e-JNJ9IiPz3Q8pXt54/view?usp=drivesdk

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 9:14 PM

What are you thinning the Gunze with? And is the MM enamel or acrylic?   Gunze thins and airbrushes best with their own thinner. You won’t find a better acrylic (although I am liking my first experiences with Humbrol acrylics) 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 9:38 PM

I have a bunch of old Gunze Sangyo paints - as any Hasegawa fan does.  The newer stuff Mr Color i think, was a disaster until i started using their thinner.  Now it goes down very nice.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    April, 2019
Posted by united2019 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:30 PM

both are acrylic. I used Model Master and Tamiya thinner, MM one seems a little better.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 11:42 PM

united2019

both are acrylic. I used Model Master and Tamiya thinner, MM one seems a little better.

 

Thats what happened. Yes, you can thin Gunze with Tamiya thinner or alcohol, but it comes out gritty. If you use Gunze thinner, you will get a smooth finish, hard as nails once cured, and far better adhesion qualities than Model Master acrylic.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
Posted by united2019 on Thursday, April 11, 2019 6:28 PM

are you able to post a link showing correct Gunze thinner to buy? I found so many and do not know which one is correct.  thanks

 

stikpusher

Thats what happened. Yes, you can thin Gunze with Tamiya thinner or alcohol, but it comes out gritty. If you use Gunze thinner, you will get a smooth finish, hard as nails once cured, and far better adhesion qualities than Model Master acrylic.

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, April 11, 2019 9:21 PM

This is the stuff that you need...

 

http://www.mr-hobby.com/en/itemDetail.php?iId=86

 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2019
Posted by Edwin on Friday, April 12, 2019 4:56 AM

Second this Ditto

Quite recently started thinning Tamiya acrylics with this, and what a difference! Sprays beautifully from the airbrush and finish is great. 

Previously was thinning with Tamiya’s X-20A

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, April 12, 2019 5:28 AM

Edwin

Second this Ditto

Quite recently started thinning Tamiya acrylics with this, and what a difference! Sprays beautifully from the airbrush and finish is great. 

Previously was thinning with Tamiya’s X-20A

 

I use my own thinner in Tamiya acrylics and it goes down beautiful ( so does Model Master). Lacquer thinner works fine in Tamiya too though and produces a slightly higher shine before buffing when used in the Tamiya gloss acrylics. My own thinner has retarder in it fwiw.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, April 12, 2019 1:02 PM

OMG, what is your thinner? Is it a home brew concoction?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, April 12, 2019 7:04 PM

stikpusher

OMG, what is your thinner? Is it a home brew concoction?

 

Yes, homebrew. A lot of people use various blends of water and alcohol, so do I but I add the retarder. Also viscosty of the mixed paint matters.

BUT I have not used my thinner in Gunz paints or Humbrol yet ( and I'm sure several others).  It works decent in craft paints too.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, April 12, 2019 8:48 PM

Have you come upon a one size fits all acrylic thinner yet in your formulas? That would be great if you did! And could share! Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Saturday, April 13, 2019 6:23 AM

As a thinner without flow aid it fits many acrylics but not Liquitex varnish,that needs it's own Airbrush Medium, some retarder and a touch of flow aid imo, or it will haze.

I have Liquitex flow aid and retarder. In a 3 oz bottle I mix 60% filtered water from our Zero water filter, 40% IPA ( the 91% stuff from the drug store) and to that I add 10 drops of retarder. I imagine other retarders work, I just have Liquitex on hand. If you went 65/35 water/ipa I don't think it would be a disaster. So far this has worked well in several acrylics for me, at least in dry winter weather. But I don't do much painting in the summer months anyway..

I'm always experimenting though, so maybe I'll hit on more ratios.

  • Member since
    April, 2019
Posted by united2019 on Sunday, April 14, 2019 9:44 PM

just an update, more issue with Gunze, the shade of color is slightly lighter than yesterday, for some reason, it shifted even with same paint and thinner, just differnet time.  I have to re paint whole thing.  no idea what is wrong?

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, April 15, 2019 5:28 AM

united2019

just an update, more issue with Gunze, the shade of color is slightly lighter than yesterday, for some reason, it shifted even with same paint and thinner, just differnet time.  I have to re paint whole thing.  no idea what is wrong?

 

I think you will find that yesterdays paint is darker because it has dried to it's proper shade. I wonder if it's just the wet paint going on ? Wet paint can be a full shade lighter than dry paint and is almost always a minimum of half a shade lighter. This is real evident with acrylic paints in particular ( latex as well), you're always best off to pick a color by a chip or name than by looking at the wet paint in the bottle. Have you let it dry to see if it comes in line then ? Paint continues to darken till it's fully cured/dried. This isn't a Gunze thing I'm speaking of, most paints suffer from this, especially acrylics. Model Master, Vallejo and craft paints too are no different.

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, April 15, 2019 8:35 AM

Yup... and there will often be slight variations the same color from different manufacturers, even those that are “matched“ to the same standard.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, April 15, 2019 9:35 AM

I might add that it could make a difference too concerning if the new finish was being laid down on a lighter color ( primer or what ever) than the original was the day before..

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
Posted by united2019 on Monday, April 15, 2019 1:17 PM

yeah, slightly lighter. I never experience such issue with Model Master paint, it is 100% consistent when I fix some chips even after few months later. 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, April 15, 2019 2:30 PM

Something doesn't add up, did you stir it up the same etc ? Same bottle of paint, same thinner ?

  • Member since
    April, 2019
Posted by united2019 on Monday, April 15, 2019 3:23 PM

yes, using AB bubble to stir. same thinner same bottle. 

 

oldermodelguy

Something doesn't add up, did you stir it up the same etc ? Same bottle of paint, same thinner ?

 

  • Member since
    November, 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, April 15, 2019 5:05 PM

united2019

yes, using AB bubble to stir. same thinner same bottle. 

 

I've axhausted my thoughts except to go back to MM since you had no trouble with it. And MM certainly takes some serious mixing so you should be used to that routine. I'll let the Gunze guys take it from here, my answers were just generic anyway.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, April 15, 2019 8:44 PM

My first question would be about the painting surfacee- is it being painted over the surface in the exact same manner? Primed or bare plastic? A pre color coat? Or over another color or paint? 

The next would be what is your thinner? And of course the other airbrushing variables- humidity, pressure, thinning ratios, etc.

Long story short, if you want true consistency, it usually requires a single session, or outside factors will have more influence...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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