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How much is too much teflon?

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  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
How much is too much teflon?
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, June 29, 2020 3:28 PM

All started in another thread re: new airbrushes and bubbling paint in the Badger Patriot 105 but not the Extreme.  With the bubbling I went on an air leak hunt.  Anyhow i have always used a Pasche hose and airbrush.  With the 2 new Badgers I got a quick release for the hose and all 3 brushes.  One of the things i noticed after hooking up the new quick release was that the compressor seems to kick on more often.  I had some teflon on the regulator gauge and replaced it even though i saw no leak - just in case (it did bubble w/ no tape - OEM regulator).  The compressor is a Aspire Pro TC910 Badger. 
There happened to be some leakage comming from the 1/8 to 1/4 adapter ive been using on the compressor so i had to teflon that and some leaking on the male end too so i tefloned that too.  Now on the quick release adapter to the Pasche hose there was leaking on the male and female ends too which ive had to teflon.  I cant seem to get the leaking to stop on the female side.

These are all suppose to be Badger OEM parts.  Is it customary to have to add teflon so that there is no leaking?  Seems like a lot of taping to me.....

 

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    July 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Monday, June 29, 2020 3:53 PM

I tape every thing that's threaded. Only issue I ever have with air leaks now is my quick connect on the airbrush sometimes loosens up while I'm painting. Must be the way I grip it. If you have any rubber gaskets inside the quick connect where it screws on they can sometimes displace and cause issues. 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, June 29, 2020 3:53 PM

You generally need something to seal the threads yes. I do use teflon tape but prefer pipe dope (doesn't really matter it's just what I like).

But leaking hose fittings aren't causing cup bubbles in case you're thinking that. It can cause a drop in working pressure and as you have noted, compressor cycling increase.

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, June 29, 2020 6:16 PM

got it.  just feels like i have gobs of tape everywhere.  The one thats the issue is the red circled one - male and female end.  You can see here the tape on the male end exposed.  It doesnt screw in any further.  I have no O-rings. 

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Monday, June 29, 2020 7:01 PM
Looks like the fitting on both ends of your hose are a flare nut type. They seal by the cone in the female end being pushed against the male fitting by tightening the nut on the female side. The tape isn't really doing anything to seal the joint and if the tape extends down over the end of the male fitting that could actually be causing it to leak. The hose I use has that type fitting on the compressor end and a 1/8 swivel on the brush end. I don't tape either end and they don't leak. I'm pretty sure the brush end on mine has a rubber seal in it. The other end I just screw in a male QD fitting and snug it up. If you overtighten these fittings you can deform them or maybe even cut the backside that rides against the nut.

            

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, June 29, 2020 7:31 PM

The tail end of the hose is flat and I think the end to the adapter on the regulator is flat too. The male end on the regular adapter is flat while the female is flared as is the male end on the regulator. The adapter circled above - male flat end and female is flat too.  I made sure no tape went over any ends. 

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, June 29, 2020 8:12 PM

Just to add to the discussion.  Putting teflon tape or liquid sealants on the threads of flare nut fittings will interfere with their ability to seal properly.  I see this kind of thing all the time in aircraft pitot and static systems, and these things are always found when I end up with an aircraft that doesn't pass its pitot and static system leak checks.  Cleaning the tape or sealant off of the threads of those flare fittings always fixes the issue.  As a general rule, teflon or liquid sealants should only be applied to fittings that have NPT thread...not flare fittings on the airbrush hose, or what it screws onto.  Leave those clean and dry.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, June 29, 2020 9:06 PM

oldermodelguy

But leaking hose fittings aren't causing cup bubbles in case you're thinking that.

Yep.  Tks omg...  The bubbles in the paint cup - ugh.  The new brush sent back to badger today.  They said its most likely the little rubber part in the guts.  Sorry, forgot the name.

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Monday, June 29, 2020 9:13 PM

Eaglecash867

Just to add to the discussion.  Putting teflon tape or liquid sealants on the threads of flare nut fittings will interfere with their ability to seal properly.  I see this kind of thing all the time in aircraft pitot and static systems, and these things are always found when I end up with an aircraft that doesn't pass its pitot and static system leak checks.  Cleaning the tape or sealant off of the threads of those flare fittings always fixes the issue.  As a general rule, teflon or liquid sealants should only be applied to fittings that have NPT thread...not flare fittings on the airbrush hose, or what it screws onto.  Leave those clean and dry.

tks!  so heres what i now have.  I guess now, what an acceptable leak range???  I would hope for none, but this isnt the space shuttle.  Not sure whats reasonable. I had to put loads of tape on it and it still screws on to the end, by hand...  Almost as if its not seating all the way but cant go further bc the male part isnt long enough.  No bubbles now, just foamy.  But id hope not to have loaded it up w/ tape.   Just seems weird to me.  Almost makes me wonder if there is some way i might have 2 different types of threads or something.

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, June 29, 2020 10:51 PM

Mrchntmarine

 

 
oldermodelguy

But leaking hose fittings aren't causing cup bubbles in case you're thinking that.Ditto

 It is probobly the the front end of the airbrush where the needle protrudes is not tightened enough. A bad seal in the nozzle cap will cause that. Ususally an easy fix. I wish I saw this sooner. And yes, I use teflon tape on all the threaded parts that are effected by the air flow.

 

Yep.  Tks omg...  The bubbles in the paint cup - ugh.  The new brush sent back to badger today.  They said its most likely the little rubber part in the guts.  Sorry, forgot the name.

 

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:07 AM

modelmaker66
Mrchntmarine 
oldermodelguy

But leaking hose fittings aren't causing cup bubbles in case you're thinking that.Ditto

 It is probobly the the front end of the airbrush where the needle protrudes is not tightened enough. A bad seal in the nozzle cap will cause that. Ususally an easy fix. 

yep. Badger already had me tighten  the head with pliers while hand tightening the spray regulator. Didn't help. Sent back to badger yesterday.   What I was after here was trying to figure out how much is too much tape and a usual amount usage. These quick adapters are new and the adapter for the pasche hose and before I knew that it wasn't causing the bubbling I was trying to figure out why the compressor was cycling so often. Guess the good news is now with the extra tape I added the pressure looks to have help overnight So that it only ran about 15 seconds this am. 

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 8:40 AM

I don't see how leaking of air from fittings could cause bubbling in the paint.  The only thing I can see is a problem is that you may not be getting the exact pressure the regulator reads, but I doubt the pressure drop in a leak is worse than the drop through the hose and airbrush itself.  I have a pretty winpy compressor, so I do worry about that, though, so do have teflon on the output fitting.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:25 AM

Don Stauffer

I don't see how leaking of air from fittings could cause bubbling in the paint.  The only thing I can see is a problem is that you may not be getting the exact pressure the regulator reads, but I doubt the pressure drop in a leak is worse than the drop through the hose and airbrush itself.  I have a pretty winpy compressor, so I do worry about that, though, so do have teflon on the output fitting.

 

yep. Badger already had me tighten  the head with pliers while hand tightening the spray regulator.   What I was after here was trying to figure out how much is too much tape and a usual amount usage.

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:09 AM

Mrchntmarine

 

 

yep. Badger already had me tighten  the head with pliers while hand tightening the spray regulator.   What I was after here was trying to figure out how much is too much tape and a usual amount usage.

 

Usually one to two wraps of tape is sufficient. If you don't like the extra hanging out just cut it away with a razor blade or something sharp. I've seen guys wrap 4-5 times around though. Not me but then again I prefer pipe dope anyway..

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:41 AM

oldermodelguy

 

 

 

that's what I was curious about as I have to do about 7-10. 

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 12:23 PM

Just a note:

      My living was made, anyway a good, part Spraying stuff and Building environments for Spraying stuff!. I have never used ANY Teflon tape on any air rig I have owned. I have learned that the fix is simple BEFORE even using the gear.

 If you have flared fittings then check the flare. If it has been injured ( The surface in the inside.)It will leak. As will other fittings. Make sure those surfaces are smooth and shiny. Then make sure when you screw parts together, that there's no debris in the threads. And you have a ninety degree connection between the flared part and where you are connecting it.( Yes, You can get it out of line without realizing it!)

 Also, and this is very important. Make sure you keep ALL the fittings for your A/B surgically clean when you are using it and when you clean and put it away. Put it in a dustproof container between uses.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 1:29 PM

Just a tip to help find a leak, when you're looking for it-put some dishwashing liquid on the spot, run the brush, and look for bubbles.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 1:33 PM

the Baron

Just a tip to help find a leak, when you're looking for it-put some dishwashing liquid on the spot, run the brush, and look for bubbles.

 

Yup.  A tiny squirt of Windex or 409 does the trick too.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 1:45 PM

Tanker-Builder

Just a note:

      My living was made, anyway a good, part Spraying stuff and Building environments for Spraying stuff!. I have never used ANY Teflon tape on any air rig I have owned. I have learned that the fix is simple BEFORE even using the gear.

 If you have flared fittings then check the flare. If it has been injured ( The surface in the inside.)It will leak. As will other fittings. Make sure those surfaces are smooth and shiny. Then make sure when you screw parts together, that there's no debris in the threads. And you have a ninety degree connection between the flared part and where you are connecting it.( Yes, You can get it out of line without realizing it!)

 Also, and this is very important. Make sure you keep ALL the fittings for your A/B surgically clean when you are using it and when you clean and put it away. Put it in a dustproof container between uses.

 

Tks TB - all good advise and followed besides the use of teflon and dust proof containerSmile.  House is pretty clean.  Another reason i was asking - looking for others experience as i dont often use the tape unless messing with gas lines.  For this set up though, ive had to use it on all the fitting from new.  Badger told me to use it on the leaking regulator upon new in the box to me.  All the other i had to put on to stop leaks when i got the quick disconnects.

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 1:50 PM

yep on the soap - if you scroll up to the 1st red circled coupler is where i am now.  Best i can do.

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 2:14 PM
In the last two pictures you posted, in the bottom of the female end of the fitting you have screwed into your air hose, is that a cork gasket? And the male end of the fitting in your last picture is flat, right?

            

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 4:28 PM

Wingman_kz
In the last two pictures you posted, in the bottom of the female end of the fitting you have screwed into your air hose, is that a cork gasket? And the male end of the fitting in your last picture is flat, right?
 


it seems like cork to me.  In checking it out, I was afraid to try and take it out bc I didn't want to tear it.  Its all OEM. I haven't added anything other than Teflon. Yes, the male end is flat. These are all Badger parts.  Tks Wingman!

 

Keep on building!

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:36 PM
That little gasket should seal the fitting when it's tightened. Maybe it's squished(technical term). Check to see if the male fitting is long enough to reach the bottom. The right size o ring could maybe take the place of the cork. But again, if it came from Badger and it's all new take it up with them. I feel sure they would make it right

            

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Louisiana Gulf South
Posted by Mrchntmarine on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 8:18 PM

Yep. Gonna talk to badger tomorrow. The local store, Dixie art from whom I purchased all the stuff from, when I told them of the leak, etc., was nice enough to offer to let me buy a new one as a replacement. 

 

Keep on building!

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