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Some advice please

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  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Some advice please
Posted by Dodgy on Friday, October 16, 2020 7:41 PM

Hi folks. Having come back to general modelling after a long break, I need some advice on what goes, or does not go with what, in terms of paints. I usually work in enamels and oils and these I understand, however with all of the new paints on the market these days I am becoming a bit confused.

So can you use acrylics over enamels and vice versa? Can you use oils over acrylics? If I paint a vehicle in enamels, can I use an acrylic gloss sealer over the enamels for decaling and weathering and vice versa? What are the basic do's and don'ts?

I know this sounds a bit basic, but I would really appreciate some general advice on this subject.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, October 16, 2020 7:57 PM

Thats pretty much it go with a clear that's the opposite of what you plan to filter,wash or weather with.

Now with a Lacquer clear coat like Testors or Alclad I'm not 100% sure if you can use enamels over it perhaps someone else will chip in.

I also fine that the thinner used with enamels can make a difference,some can be especially hot.I also try to move the wash or filter around by not rubbing it in too much.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Friday, October 16, 2020 8:20 PM

To answer your question about oils over acrylics, it is definitely a good combination.  I recently applied black oil paint, straight out of the tube, to the acrylic flat white interior of an afterburner assembly.  After that, I used Model Master enamel thinner and cotton swabs to wipe away the excess and get a nice carbon streaking effect.  In the past I have used turpentine for removing the excess, but I found that it attacks even acrylic paint much more quickly than the MM enamel thinner does.  When I was happy with the realism of the streaking effect, I applied Testor's Dullcote lacquer to seal everything.

As far as clear coats go, using an acrylic clear coat is what I do for intermediate steps such as weathering and decaling.  The final clear coat I put on is always a lacquer.  The reason for that is, for me anyway, acrylic clear coats such as Future tend to develop tiny cracks in them if I don't put a final coat of clear lacquer on it within a couple of weeks.

Your mileage may vary on that.  Some have had exactly the same issues as I have had, while others haven't.

Edit:  Just a side note on new paint brands, I just tried my first spoon shots of Mr. Paint Sukhoi Cockpit Blue Gray and I love the stuff already.  They're acrylic lacquers that shoot straight from the bottle and don't run, sag, or any of the other bad things that many paints do.  I was even trying to screw it up, and it just kept laying on smoothly, with absolutely no tip dry.  Definitely check the stuff out when looking at new products.  REALLY looking forward to January now when I can start the Su-25 project.  Cool

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Saturday, October 17, 2020 7:21 AM

Acrylics dry, and they do dry vs curing, they do this quickly compared to enamel cure rate. So if you use a clear intercoat of clear acrylic over enamel or a second color is acrylic over enamel base color, be sure the enamel is well cured and avoid cracks and checking marking or wrinkles.

Acrylic will go over most other paints fine and most other paints go over acrylic fine with proper dry times.

Acrylic directly sprayed on plastic is asking for peeling and chipping, so use a decent primer and avoid that mess.

Some of the new acrylics are really a hybrid acrylic lacquer like Tamiya acrylics have been. Some of the new lacquers aren't so different from them. These types of paints are easy handling, thinning and cleaning up after.

 

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, October 17, 2020 5:14 PM

Thanks Tojo, appreciate it.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, October 17, 2020 5:29 PM

Great advice Eaglecash, thank you. I'll definately look out for the Mr. Paint product. who knows, I might even get a decent finish on an aircraft! Good luck and have fun with the Su-25.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Saturday, October 17, 2020 5:45 PM

Thanks Oldermodelguy. Sound advice which i will be careful to follow.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Sunday, October 18, 2020 9:10 AM

Dodgy

Thanks Oldermodelguy. Sound advice which i will be careful to follow.

 

Sure !

Maybe get yourself some plastic spoons or a donar mule model to practice on is my suggestion. Less surprises in the middle of a build.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Monday, October 19, 2020 1:30 PM

oldermodelguy

Acrylics dry, and they do dry vs curing, they do this quickly compared to enamel cure rate. So if you use a clear intercoat of clear acrylic over enamel or a second color is acrylic over enamel base color, be sure the enamel is well cured and avoid cracks and checking marking or wrinkles.

Acrylic will go over most other paints fine and most other paints go over acrylic fine with proper dry times.

Acrylic directly sprayed on plastic is asking for peeling and chipping, so use a decent primer and avoid that mess.

Some of the new acrylics are really a hybrid acrylic lacquer like Tamiya acrylics have been. Some of the new lacquers aren't so different from them. These types of paints are easy handling, thinning and cleaning up after.

 

 

I agree 100% with oldermodelguy. An enemal base coat needs to be 100% cured before applying an acrylic clearcoat. If the clearcoat is applyed too soon the following will happen:

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, October 19, 2020 3:36 PM

I have had Future develop cracks in it after being applied over Tamiya acrylic paint that had cured for a week.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, October 19, 2020 6:20 PM

Eaglecash867

I have had Future develop cracks in it after being applied over Tamiya acrylic paint that had cured for a week.

 

This I can't really comment on, I've only used Tamiya's own clear acrylic or Liquitex clear varnishs over Tamiya colors. Never had an issue with those. Also my Future is really Pledge so there could be something a bit different there too.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, October 19, 2020 6:21 PM

JohnnyK

 

 
oldermodelguy

Acrylics dry, and they do dry vs curing, they do this quickly compared to enamel cure rate. So if you use a clear intercoat of clear acrylic over enamel or a second color is acrylic over enamel base color, be sure the enamel is well cured and avoid cracks and checking marking or wrinkles.

Acrylic will go over most other paints fine and most other paints go over acrylic fine with proper dry times.

Acrylic directly sprayed on plastic is asking for peeling and chipping, so use a decent primer and avoid that mess.

Some of the new acrylics are really a hybrid acrylic lacquer like Tamiya acrylics have been. Some of the new lacquers aren't so different from them. These types of paints are easy handling, thinning and cleaning up after.

 

 

 

 

I agree 100% with oldermodelguy. An enemal base coat needs to be 100% cured before applying an acrylic clearcoat. If the clearcoat is applyed too soon the following will happen:

 

 

Ouch ! Purple pond for that baby lol ( laughing with you I hope) !!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, October 19, 2020 6:54 PM

oldermodelguy

 

This I can't really comment on, I've only used Tamiya's own clear acrylic or Liquitex clear varnishs over Tamiya colors. Never had an issue with those. Also my Future is really Pledge so there could be something a bit different there too.

 

 

 
My Future is the Pledge Floor Care too.  I should probably give the Tamiya and Liquitex a try next time I'm using Tamiya for a majority of my painting.  Once I finish my F-16CJ project, my next project (Su-25M1) will be almost all MRP and AKAN paints being used.  The CJ just got its first coat of Future, over Model Master enamel, and the Future/lacquer combo worked extremely well on the tail I painted and decaled for it a long time ago, so I'm nervous about changing from how I did the tail.  Doing a final coat of clear lacquer like I have been doing makes the Future happy no matter what kind of paint it goes over (always fully cured), so it works...but it would be awesome if I could eliminate a step from the finishing process. 

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, October 19, 2020 7:20 PM

Eaglecash867

 

 
My Future is the Pledge Floor Care too.  I should probably give the Tamiya and Liquitex a try next time I'm using Tamiya for a majority of my painting.  Once I finish my F-16CJ project, my next project (Su-25M1) will be almost all MRP and AKAN paints being used.  The CJ just got its first coat of Future, over Model Master enamel, and the Future/lacquer combo worked extremely well on the tail I painted and decaled for it a long time ago, so I'm nervous about changing from how I did the tail.  Doing a final coat of clear lacquer like I have been doing makes the Future happy no matter what kind of paint it goes over (always fully cured), so it works...but it would be awesome if I could eliminate a step from the finishing process. 
 

The Tamiya clear is my go to top coat for clear gloss. That or lacquer, I just don't recall using lacquer on Tamiya paint.. The Liquitex I use for a different purpose over various paints for interior work to include Tamiya, I keep satin and matte and often mix them in different ratios for the sheen I want. I'm nixing Liquitex full gloss.

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