why turpentine instead of paint thinner for a wash

me too AJ, the cheaper,. the better :)...

Still...anyone have a swaying argument FOR turps?

thanks!

D avid

I have, and can think of, no particularly good reason to use turpentine. I can, I think, tell you why people may be reluctant to use "paint thinner."

"Paint thinner" is not a chemical or technical name. Most paint thinner is just mineral spirits—but it doesn't have to be. It may contain, intentionally or otherwise, other solvents that may produce undesireable effects when applied to scale models.  Turpentine has to be just that, turpentine, because turpentine is a technical name for an organic solvent of specific composition.

Myself, I always use odorless mineral spirits. Mineral spirits has a specific composition and purity. And the odorless type doesn't stink.

Additionally, turpentine does have a higher toxicity rating, last I checked. 

Thanks Triarius.

I have wondered what the difference between  paint thinner and mineral spirits is. I currently have wally world paint thinner and  mineral spits in the plastic jugs.  curently i am using the paint thinner...soo..it may include some things like lacquer thinner, alcohol, etc. 

Good observation, thanks!

The name "mineral spirits" is a hold over from the 18th century, when science was in its infancy, and organic chemistry was not even a separate field of study. It may even have originated in the alchemists' vernacular—back when we did our chemistry in priMORdial darkness….

The "spirits" of the ethereal plane are not involved… 

The same is true of the names "mineral oil" and "mineral salts." They are still used because they have been used forever and are familiar marketing terms.

"Lacquer thinner" is another name that can signify anything from pure ethyl alcohol to a truly exotic blend of solvents.

"Paint thinner" may contain other solvents such as toluene, xylene, assorted ketones, etc., but rarely, if ever, would contain an alcohol. 

 While we are on the subject, I have seen some folks mention using turpenoid in place of turpentine for washes.

 As an angle on the original question, would turpenoid have any benefits over odorless mineral spirits in a wash?

The name "mineral spirits" is a hold over from the 18th century, when science was in its infancy, and organic chemistry was not even a separate field of study. It may even have originated in the alchemists' vernacular—back when we did our chemistry in priMORdial darkness…. The "spirits" of the ethereal plane are not involved…

I have no idea about the "mineral" part, but the "spirits" part probably came from the fact that it was distilled. Distilled alchohol was/is often referred to as "spirits" as well.

Yes, "spirits" of anything were either aromatic compounds distilled from a liquid or a liquid emulsion or solution, or occasionally for materials extracted by solution.

Turpenoid is a synthetic substitute for turpentine. I think it is considered less toxic than the original. Whether it has any real advantages over mineral spirits I don't know. 

Wikipedia can be your friend guys

Mineral Spirits, also called Stoddard solvent [CAS 8052-41-3]^[1], is a petroleum distilate commonly used as a paint thinner and mild solvent. Outside of the United States and Canada, it is referred to as white spirit. In industry, mineral spirits is used for cleaning and degreasing machine tools and parts. According to Wesco, a supplier of solvents and cleaning equipment, mineral spirits "are especially effective in removing oils, greases, carbon, and other material from metal." Mineral spirits may also be used in conjunction with cutting oil as a thread cutting and reaming lubricant.

Artists use mineral spirits as an alternative to turpentine, one that is both less flammable and less toxic. Because of interactions with pigments, artists require a higher grade of mineral spirits than many industrial users, including the complete absence of residual sulphur. Odorless Mineral Spirits are mineral spirits that have been further refined to remove the more toxic aromatic compounds, and are recommended for applications such as oil painting, where humans have close contact with the solvent.

In screen printing (also referred to as silk-screening), mineral spirits are often used to clean and unclog screens after printing with oil-based textile and plastisol inks.

A typical composition for mineral spirits is the following: aliphatic solvent hexane having a maximum aromatic hydrocarbon content of 0.1% by volume, a kauri-butanol value of 29, an initial boiling point of 149 °F (65 °C), a dry point of approximately 156 °F (69 °C), and a specific mass of 0.7 g/cc. In the European Community, the composition of mineral spirits comes from Article 11(2) of Directive 2002/96/EC (WEEE).

Gota take the info with a grain of salt, someone could have edited it, but things like this, why would they.

As far as this goes, Ill stick with the brand thinner.  If model masters says that its model masters enamel thinner.  Im pretty sure itl thin their enamels, and not their laquers. unlike the spirits

Hello Wise ones,

What would "mineral spirits" be called in the UK? White Spirit?

Cheers,

Bob 

I have heard that it is called "white spirit" in the UK, but I've also heard that term used for naptha, which is not the same thing. Another name is "Stoddards solvent."

Ain't speaking the same language a hoot!? "The British and Americans are two peoples separated by a common language." —Winston Churchill. Spot on.

Triarius wrote:

Ain't speaking the same language a hoot!? "The British and Americans are two peoples separated by a common language." —Winston Churchill. Spot on.

Actually, that quote should be more properly attributed to George Bernard Shaw, not Churchill.

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/897.html

Back to the original subject, and a question in passing about Turpenoid vs turpentine.

I have found that hardware store turpentine used in a wash solvent, even over an acrylic-sealed surface, resulted in some removal of the underlying paint.   Turpenoid from the art supply store seems to be milder and does not affect the underlying surface to as great an extent

Ed, you are absolutely right! I had forgotten that Sir Winston borrowed it from Shaw. I stand corrected…now hand me the 600 grit so I can sand off the excess putty…

Turpentine contains natural alcohols and other water compatible organic compounds (being distilled from trees, essentially), which is why it can attack some acrylics. Turpenoid, being a synthetic, is more consistent and has a less complex composition.

What about using water instead of thinner?  Does that work the same way?

 Thanks!

Gus wrote:

What about using water instead of thinner?  Does that work the same way?

Water will work as a wash thinner on water-based paints,  acrylics, watercolors, inks, and as a vehicle for some pastel/chalk washes.   It will not work with solvent-based paints; enamels, oils.

A water-based wash is an option over enamel paint/barrier, but could potentially disturb unsealed underlying water-based (acrylic) paints.

Additionally, water evaporates fairly slowly.  

Perhaps an alcohol would be a better choice.   But you still have the underlying water-based paint problem unless you apply a sealer which is not affected by water.

I can't think of any reason for using turpentine in favor paint thinner (mineral spirits) for a wash, and can think of at least one reason to avoid it.  If you paint with enamels, it seems to be a lot more aggressive at attacking the underlying paint than mineral spirits.  The one time I tried turpentine, as a result of reading about so many people specifically recommending turpentine, it ate through the Future clear coat and lifted the underlying enamel.  Fortunately, I started my wash on the underside of the tank, so I was able to fix the damage withou much trouble.

Andy