Feeling guilty about buying an Iwata . . .

Don't worry about it. If you like it that's all that matters.

It's getting harder and harder to "buy American" on most things these days anyhow with the global market we live in. Even American cars are made in Mexico, Canada, etc.

Caterpillar tractor is making a lot of things in China now which bothers me as a former heavy equipment operator but that is where it's all going........except for Badger!

Ken will not compromise on that.

Don't beat yourself up too much.  Iwata makes a pretty compleling product, for the most part one which Badger really doesnt have a close match to (I mean in terms of design.  Both are top quality brands).  Maybe the new Renegade R1V will close the gap in offereings...

Just curious on the subject though, does your Eclipse indicate that its made in China, or Japan?

JamesDean wrote:

Maybe the new Renegade R1V will close the gap in offereings...

Some people are saying it's better. 

Don't beat yourself up too much.  Iwata makes a pretty compleling product, for the most part one which Badger really doesnt have a close match to (I mean in terms of design.

What design? 

Levon wrote:

The problem with my area is that the Michaels and the AC Moore do not sell Gravity feed Badger Airbrushes!  ......   I am just not a big fan of the siphon feed airbrush.  They did have the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS Gravity Feed Airbrush for $215.00, but I had a 50% off coupon, and decided to purchase it.  It came out to $125.00.  .......  I just don't know why these two stores will not sell a wider range of Badger products.  It's 175, 155, 100SG, 150, and the 350.  That's all at either store.  I know the 100Sg is gravity, but the reservoir is too small.  Am I being stupid?  I am not a big fan of mail order.  I really want to feel and see a product before I buy it.  Most of the hobby shops in my area only sell the 350 or 150 by Badger.  Anyway, my random thoughts . . . .

I bought the Iwata HP-CS (with the 40% coupon) for precisely the same reason. I am no airbrush expert, but the Iwata just feels right in my hand, gives me the smooth control I wanted and is easy to clean. I did not know those until after I took the Iwata home. I would have gotten the Badger Renegade-velocity or the Paasche Talon if I saw them in any local hobby shop, even at slightly higher than mail order price.  The LHS can special order them, but it is unreal on how much the distributor wants.

Subsequently, I have purchased two made-in-China clones, a Badger 155 and an Iwata C Plus, each at $20-30. The brand was PowerCat. To my surprise, both PowerCat AB worked quite nicely after some Regdab needle juice. When taking them apart to look inside, I managed to ding one of the needle. Fortunately, the vendor ship it with a spare needle which I use now. I would consder both a big improvement over the Paasche H, my very first airbrush. But not in the same league as the Iwata. These are toys of my hobby bought to satisfy my own curiosity.

You guess it right. I use the Iwata most of the time.

Hopefully, we can see the Badger or Paasche high end airbrushes at the hobby chains some day. 

Believe it or not, one thing that is very American is Capitalism. In our free market, you have the right to choose the best product for you...in other words you are not limited in choice. Sure Iwata is a Japanese company, but in the pipeline are many American workers, from the importers to the distributors to the retailers (hobby Lobby) who employ many American workers. 

I guess what I am saying is that you are being more American than you give yourself credit for.

MikeV wrote:

Some people are saying it's better.

They look really good.  I'd love to try one sometime...

What design?

I just meant Badger's proclivity for siphon feed vs. gravity, while with Iwata it seems to be the opposite. Yes Badger has the 100LG, the aforementioned Velocity R1V, a couple others, but the choices are relatively few compared with the Iwata line (where siphon feed is the rarer thing) not to mention the gravity feed Badgers are harder to find...whereas it seems you can pickup a 200NH just about anywhere .  Dont get me wrong, Badger makes top-shelf product and have what I consider the best service bar none, but when looking for a permanently mounted gravity feed cup (larger than a thimble) Iwata does have a greater breadth of choice by comparison.

PaintsWithBrush wrote:

Quality is all that counts. Besides, there is precious little that is "American" (or any other nationality for that matter) anymore. Most things are now "assembled in (fill in country name) with parts supplied by (fill in different country name)". Even if it does say "Made in U.S.A." on it, chances are it came from a "Protectorate" that is immune from labor and environmental protections and regulations applicable to the actual 50 states. Regards, PWB.

While that is true in many cases it is not true for Badger for the record. 

They are made outside Chicago as Ken's Grandfather did for Wold and Thayer & Chandler years ago.

JamesDean wrote:

MikeV wrote: Some people are saying it's better. They look really good.  I'd love to try one sometime... What design? I just meant Badger's proclivity for siphon feed vs. gravity, while with Iwata it seems to be the opposite. Yes Badger has the 100LG, the aforementioned Velocity R1V, a couple others, but the choices are relatively few compared with the Iwata line (where siphon feed is the rarer thing) not to mention the gravity feed Badgers are harder to find...whereas it seems you can pickup a 200NH just about anywhere .  Dont get me wrong, Badger makes top-shelf product and have what I consider the best service bar none, but when looking for a permanently mounted gravity feed cup (larger than a thimble) Iwata does have a greater breadth of choice by comparison.

You forgot to mention the Omni 4000 which is another gravity feed with a 1/3 ounce cup like the 100LG and Iwata HP-C, etc. I seem to use it more than any other. I think if you looked at all the models the numbers would be closer for standard models. Now Iwata does make the Micron series which are overkill IMHO as well as the ones with the air valve on the front which I also feel is a gimick but to each his own. I sold the Iwata HP-CS I had to one member of this board as I felt the Badger 100LG was every bit as good and had an even smoother trigger but with all things that is a personal choice. Iwata does spend a little more time polishing things and all to make the airbrush a little smoother overall, I don't however think that it equates to a better airbrush as you pay for it in the end. This is just my opinion coming from someone who has owned 15 airbrushes and counting. I am in no way trying to turn this into a Ford verses Chevy verses Toyota thread. I am a friend of Ken Schlotfeldt and I know the man personally and his dedication to his company and the way he treats his company and his workers is nothing short of amazing in this day and age. Ever see the President of a company literally BBQ for his entire crew? Relieve them for breaks? That is the kind of man at the helm of Badger Airbrush Co and that is why I am a customer for life. He is the real deal but as I said the choice is yours. I have made mine. 

I could show you pictures and I have in the past, of artists that do incredible stuff with even an Aztech so as is always mentioned, buy what you like, learn to use it to the best of your abilities, have fun and share with us fellow modelers what you have accomplished! 

That's what it's all about if you ask me and you all have taught me a thing or two that I am forever grateful for!

Now I need some sleep so, "Look who's got the front row at the Mexican hat dance now? Just like a bunch of spiders in a birthday cake!" "goodnight Irene!"  (I love that movie)

JamesDean wrote:

I hear ya.  Along the same lines as the original post, I go one step further and try to buy from local stores (rather than send my money across the country, or worse to another country).  If someone had a 100LG within driving distance I'd pick it up in a heart beat, but like I said those sort of Badger models seem obscure (why I dont know), at least compared to the Crescendos, 150s, 200s, etc.

I know what you mean. Hobby shops are scarce here as well my friend and the Michael's store doesn't have much either....maybe a 155 Anthem and a couple single-action models. We are not blessed with Hobby Lobby's like our friends in the midwest and east coast so the internet is about it if you want a good gravity-feed airbrush. 

MikeV wrote:

Ever see the President of a company literally BBQ for his entire crew? Relieve them for breaks? That is the kind of man at the helm of Badger Airbrush Co

I like this kind of owner/management style and trey to support those who "do it right" when I can.

One of the problems with airbrushes is that most people have one or two (unlike you MIke!) which makes it tough to compare between brands. I love my Iwata Eclipse, which is my workhorse, but I also have a Sotor 20/20 which is great for fine detail.

I've always found that airbrushes are like model manufacturers: Who makes the best one? It just depends on which is the best for you.

mucker wrote:

MikeV wrote: Ever see the President of a company literally BBQ for his entire crew? Relieve them for breaks? That is the kind of man at the helm of Badger Airbrush Co I like this kind of owner/management style and trey to support those who "do it right" when I can. One of the problems with airbrushes is that most people have one or two (unlike you MIke!) which makes it tough to compare between brands. I love my Iwata Eclipse, which is my workhorse, but I also have a Sotor 20/20 which is great for fine detail. I've always found that airbrushes are like model manufacturers: Who makes the best one? It just depends on which is the best for you.

Amen brother! I too have a Sotar, and Renegade and a 100LG, and a 155 and a 3155 and a 360 and an Omni 4000 and an Omni 3000 and an Omni 3000 "Scooter Shooter" and .....OK that's enough I have carpal tunnel now.

I learned on a Paasche VL (shhhhhhh don't tell anyone)

Thanks to everyone for keeping this civil as that is how discussions should be!

You have a museum there, Mike!

Which one is your "workhorse"?

mucker wrote:

You have a museum there, Mike! Which one is your "workhorse"?

That would have to be the Thayer & Chandler 4000 followed by the Badger 360 for touch-up and small parts. For some reason I have just always loved the Omni 4000. It's easy to clean, sprays great and is balanced nice. The 100LG is even better but it is a bit more picky since it has a micro-tip and not your standard "cone" tip on it if you know what I mean. I have yet to try the Renegade as I haven't been doing much modeleing lately but I am anxious to try it as it feels great. When summer ends I will be back at the bench I am sure.

JamesDean wrote:

If someone had a 100LG within driving distance I'd pick it up in a heart beat, but like I said those sort of Badger models seem obscure (why I dont know), at least compared to the Crescendos, 150s, 200s, etc.

I think it's because most hobby shop owners do not know what works best for modeling and so they buy the airbrushes that used to be the big sellers with the modeling crowd in the past that were marketed for modeling and hobbies. The Badger 100LG, Iwata HP-C, etc are marketed more for fine art and automotive airbrushing for the most part.

MikeV wrote:

JamesDean wrote:   If someone had a 100LG within driving distance I'd pick it up in a heart beat, but like I said those sort of Badger models seem obscure (why I dont know), at least compared to the Crescendos, 150s, 200s, etc. I think it's because most hobby shop owners do not know what works best for modeling and so they buy the airbrushes that used to be the big sellers with the modeling crowd in the past that were marketed for modeling and hobbies. The Badger 100LG, Iwata HP-C, etc are marketed more for fine art and automotive airbrushing for the most part.

Mike, I would disagree. Most LHS owners that I met are modelers like us. Some of them go to modeling meetings and sponsor modeling shows. It is well understood that modelers prefer gravity feed for their main airbrushing task and also want a siphon feed for larger areas. Michaels is the only hobby shop in town that stocks Badger AB. Yes, their manager don't know anything about modeling. I always wonder how and where they get their Badger stocks. If Badger marketed 100G for fine art and automotive airbrushing for the most part and ignor the hobby scene, Ken may need to rethink his marketing strategy.

If someone had a Renegade Velocity AB within driving distance, I'd pick it up in a heart beat. I don't need another AB. But I can afford it and want to compare it with the Iwata HP-CS in my own airbrushing setting.

HI!

You buy what is right for you. I own a german made airbrush for detail and an american for less precision work. It is your money and you hobby.

rippel66 wrote:

HI!   You buy what is right for you. I own a german made airbrush for detail and an american for less precision work. It is your money and you hobby.

Wow! No implication that American products are inferior there?

glad you like the iwata, I'm a big fan also.

(although any basic economics course will teach you that foreign imports are in fact good for the american economy. )

Being a patriotic American, I like to support U.S. companies too when I can.  But there is another factor that I consider.  I have no doubt that Iwata makes fine airbrushes.  They have many loyal customers.  They are also a huge company; airbrushes are a minor part.  According to Ken Schlotfeldt, the owner of Badger, he has 60 employees.

I like dealing with small businesses when I can.  They usually seem to have more concern with pleasing their customers.  And this is certainly true with Badger.  I know from experience that if I have a question or problem, I will get a personal response, not an automatic form e-mail.  And this is worth something to me.

Of course, if I thought that they produced a product that didn't fit my needs, I would go elsewhere, even off shore.  But I haven't found this to be the case.

Don 

P.S.  Honestly, I am not connected with Badger in any way except as a satisfied customer.

Don Wheeler wrote:

Being a patriotic American, I like to support U.S. companies too when I can.  But there is another factor that I consider.  I have no doubt that Iwata makes fine airbrushes.  They have many loyal customers.  They are also a huge company; airbrushes are a minor part.  According to Ken Schlotfeldt, the owner of Badger, he has 60 employees. I like dealing with small businesses when I can.  They usually seem to have more concern with pleasing their customers.  And this is certainly true with Badger.  I know from experience that if I have a question or problem, I will get a personal response, not an automatic form e-mail.  And this is worth something to me. Of course, if I thought that they produced a product that didn't fit my needs, I would go elsewhere, even off shore.  But I haven't found this to be the case. Don  P.S.  Honestly, I am not connected with Badger in any way except as a satisfied customer.

Well said Don!

keilau wrote:

Mike, I would disagree. Most LHS owners that I met are modelers like us. Some of them go to modeling meetings and sponsor modeling shows. It is well understood that modelers prefer gravity feed for their main airbrushing task and also want a siphon feed for larger areas.

Not in these parts my friend.

The shops around here wouldn't know a gravity-feed from a siphon-feed if their life depended on it.

MikeV wrote:

keilau wrote: Mike, I would disagree. Most LHS owners that I met are modelers like us. Some of them go to modeling meetings and sponsor modeling shows. It is well understood that modelers prefer gravity feed for their main airbrushing task and also want a siphon feed for larger areas. Not in these parts my friend. The shops around here wouldn't know a gravity-feed from a siphon-feed if their life depended on it.

If so, it is up to Badger's marketing department to offset the inbalance. Marketing influences what the retailer stocks.

Most cities have 2 or 3 discount hobby shop chains with prices competitive with internet stores. The Hobby Lobby sells Iwata and stocks the gravity feed HP-CS and parts. Michaels sells Badger, but does not stock 100G or Renegade-velocity. This situation drives modeler in the know to Iwata.

I used to think that it is easier to find knowledgeable hobby shop owners at the big cities on the coasts than in the midwest. I stand corrected.