Do you use ventilation?

Anyone know if those portable filters they use in nail salons are any good? If they can suck up acetone fumes....

I use paint particulate prefilters and organic vapor cartridges. The mask itself is about ten years old, made by an outfit called "MSA"—I got it through the company where I worked at the time.

The good designs have a metal frame to which the straps are attached, insuring uniform pressure against the face, and are made so that the lower portion cups the chin. This keeps the seal intact when the jaw moves.

For an online source, try Professional Equipment.

Fox,

Good thought. I'll give that a go. Thanks.

Triarius,

I agree with all your comments, but so far I've had no luck with the masks or local expertise. I will continue to look for the right answer. If you don't mind, since you do wear glasses and have no problem, may I ask what filter you use?

Thanks for your response.

USNA91

That would be ideal, but a) this is on a third floor, and b) my wife refuses to allow me to cut another hole in the side of the house.

Sigh....

Which hole would your wife prefer?

• Lung biopsy
• Liver biopsy
• Kidney biopsy
• Bone marrow biopsy…

No doubt you get my drift.

What Hans said, especially about the amount of toxins you take in while sitting in traffic, is essentially correct, but that should be no comfort, because he didn't mention one thing: carcinogens are not like toxins. It takes a certain amount of a toxin, over a certain period of time, to cause a bad effect. Carcinogens are like bullets—it only takes one molecule in the wrong place at the wrong time to kill you.

So standing down range is generally considered bad practice, even though the likelihood of getting hit is hardly greater. I know of no one who's been on the wrong end of incoming fire who wants to repeat the experience.

So the question becomes one of "are there carcinogens in hobby materials?" The answer is yes, some of them known (everything is known to cause cancer in the State of California…) and some unknown. Also, similar to Han's statement about toxins, we are almost certainly exposed to far more in our everyday environment.

Using proper safety measures will not keep you from getting sick or getting cancer. It will reduce the risk. You have to decide what levels of protection and risk are acceptable. On one end of that spectrum is extreme folly, on the other, paranoia.

Having been on the wrong end of incoming fire, I definitely lean toward more protection and less risk. Bullets are nasty uncomfortable things…can make you late for the rest of your life—or wish they had.

Hans von Hammer

You're exposed to more (oxygen-displacing) gases, vapors, and particulate matter hazards sitting in your car at a stop light or waitng to cross the street than you are in a room with an airbrush cup full of enamel and a fan in the window...  But if it makes you feel better, go ahead... 

I agree with you in principle. My issue is that my wife has allergies and I want to keep particulate paint from covering everything over time. If it were just me, I wouldn't bother. I haven't in the past either.

The room I will be in is a converted attic with a HUGE exhaust fan. That works wonderful, but it's TOO good. Hence, I'll probably go for the models I've mentioned, and maybe rig additional charcoal filters on the exhaust...

bondoman

If you have an exterior wall, like the garage, buy a dryer vent and install it. Dryer duct is usually 4"-perfect.

That would be ideal, but a) this is on a third floor, and b) my wife refuses to allow me to cut another hole in the side of the house.

Sigh....

To answer the question, No... That's to say that I don't use a spray booth or any of that stuff... During warm months, I open a window if I'm using a rattle-can, especially for metallics, but for airbrushing enamels or laquers, there's not enough overspray for me to care, I don't mind the smell, and if I'm using acrylics, it's a "Why bother?" senario...

I don't use respirators or dust masks either, haven't for 40+ years of modeling..  Unless you're painting several hours a day, it's pretty much a waste of money... Besides that, if you have facial hair that's more than a day or two's growth, respirators won't seal on your face, and dust masks don't seal at all, no matter what... And if you're using HEPA filters (Purple ones), you'll smell it anyway, since they only filter particulates and not vapors or gases (wait until you're using a PAPR and someone you're working with farts into your fan intake)...   It's largely a placebo effect IMHO if folks use that stuff... If you can smell the vapors, you're inhaling them... ( I've painted commercially and done asbestos abatement, plus years as a chemical operations specialist, so masks and respirators are kinda my thing... )

You're exposed to more (oxygen-displacing) gases, vapors, and particulate matter hazards sitting in your car at a stop light or waitng to cross the street than you are in a room with an airbrush cup full of enamel and a fan in the window...  But if it makes you feel better, go ahead... 

Tamiya Acrylics contain Isopropyl Alcohol, which is most definitely an organic solvent and is quite toxic.

From Wikipedia:

Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized by the liver into acetone by alcohol dehydrogenase. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Use in well-ventilated areas and use protective gloves while using. Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or absorption.

This is actually a pretty toxic hobby. The glues, paints and resins we use can be deadly if mishandled. And buying too many kits can cause wives to yell, scream and in extreme cases, even divorce us!

If you have an exterior wall, like the garage, buy a dryer vent and install it. Dryer duct is usually 4"-perfect.

If you can vent, do. Acylics just don't smell as bad, and actually are much less harmful because they don't contain organic solvents, but....

there's always the cat, and they have little tiny lungs.

Tamiya paints that are sold in the US are acrylics. Acrylics are considered less toxic than enamels, but I don't think they really are. Certainly breathing in finely atomized paint is to be avoided!

The Artograph/Microlux spray booths claim to have THREE filters: a simple paper-like one, a second one that is a non-woven material, and a charcoal filter.

I normally use Testors paints, but now that I'm getting back into this, I may be looking at other brands that are better. I've heard Tamiya paints are great. I honestly don't know if these are acrylic or not.

There are some spray booths that have a single, and some that have 2 filters and exhaust internally. You have to replace the filters frequently depending on the amount of painting you do. Some like them and some don't. If you google Spray Booths, you'll find them. They tend to be pricey though. I personally wouldn't use one. I built my own booth and exhaust out the window through a drier vent type arrangement. I use heater filters that are less than $2 each. I don't do a lot of spray painting yet so I don't worry about the filter price.

Jim

Both Bear Air and Dixie Art at least used to carry such a spray booth. I can't vouch for their effectiveness, but if you stick to acrylics they might work well enough, especially coupled with a respirator.

I'm stuck in a situation where I don't have a window to open.

I've been trying to find a spray booth that filters out the crud yet discharges internally. Any ideas?

Yes! Believe an old car & aircraft painter (1:1 scale), I wouldn't touch any spray job without both ventilation AND a mask of some sort. My spray booth is homemade with an 8 inch, 600 CFM tubeaxial fan (military surplus - cost less than a bath or stove fan & this thing will pull your eye teeth out on high!). The booth is small enough for me to tote around the house. If I'm in the garage I just point the blower out the door. If I'm in the study/workroom, I have a wooden insert for the window for 8" duct.

As for a mask, if you're doing a short spray job, one of those disposable paper masks is okay. More than 5 minutes actual spraying time & you need a respirator with replaceable filters. These can be had for $20 to $30. 

How much are your lungs worth?

Here's the link to the fan supplier:  model #W2E200-HH86-01

http://www.surplussales.com/Fans-Blowers/FansBlow-4.html

Intruder38 - If you live near your local Fire Station, drop over there on work night (in most places it's Thursday, at least around these parts). They will be more than happy to help you with the fit. I wear glasses and have no trouble wearing any type of mask.

Jim

I use a homemade spray booth that vents out a window via two 4" marine bilge blowers.  Years ago I used to use rattle cans in a small room, didn't mind. I've fume up the place then go to sleep without a thought.
I'll probably die early because of it. Stupid but when we are kids we are indestructable, right?
Today I use the booth for all aerosol painting. Only exceptions are tiny parts that only require a spritz or two.
I don't worry about glues and putty and such, much like I don't worry about how many calories my Whopper has in it or if I'm getting a bit of a sunburn in the spring.

Cost of a good spraybooth, maximum: $200.

Cost of a piece of exterior grade plywood that fits in a nearby window: $5.

Cost of a section of metal flexible vent from booth to window: $20.

Total: $225.

Sound like a lot? Now compare it to the cost of six months chemotherapy, a lifetime of kidney dialysis, a liver transplant, or dying of emphysema for ten years. These are just a few of the lovely things you put yourself at risk for when  you think "it's too expensive, I have no room, and it's not worth the effort." Just your transportation too and from the medical facilities in question will easily exceed a measly $225.

"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain." So why am I?

Intruder38

I have recently invested in a Pace booth, but have not given it much use yet. I would also like to use a respirator when appropriate, but wearing glasses when I want to see makes any mask I have found a non-starter. The common masks just do not work with the glasses, either lifting them away from their intended position or fogging them when I breathe. A full mask seems like the only one that would work, but this hobby is to be fun, not an ordeal. Do any of you glass-wearing friends out there have any suggestions?

If your respirator is moving your glasses, it's not fitted properly. If it's fogging your glasses, its so improperly fitted that it isn't sealing.

I have a hard time understanding what might be wrong, as I wear glasses, very large diameter, and have never had a problem with them. Find someone who knows how to wear and fit a respirator and have them help you get it right. Unfortunately, that's something I can't do online.

I don't vent, and never have, mostly due to the fairly prohibitive costs of having a spray-booth, and doubly-so with not having space to put it. I also spray only Tamiya acrylics. However, its always with a window wide open, and in the nicer months, only outside. I use a dust-mask.

To be honest, all of the advice here is probably right on the ball though, and if you can afford it, and have a place to put it, there are no good reasons not to.

The only thing that struck me as odd in this thread was what AModelBuilder mentioned with regards to solvent glues, etc. Maybe I misunderstood, but by that allusion, we should all be using a spray-booth to generally just construct our models using our Tamiya/Testors glues, our run-of-the-mill CA, and our Suadron putty? That is something I've never even considered, and to be perfectly honest with you, I probably won't. Heck, the general quality of air inside a domicile is really not as 'clean' as people seem to believe it is.

AModelBuilder

what if I am just using acrylics?  what do I need to do?

You need a spray booth and possibly a respirator. Why? Because legally, "non-toxic" only means that it has not yet been proven toxic. Toxicology research was twenty years behind in 1982 when I wrote "Safety with Hobby Materials" for FSM (out of date and no longer available). The situation has NOT improved since then, in fact, has gotten much worse.

You need a spray booth. A respirator will only protect you, not others in your dwelling.

You need a spray booth because you won't just be using acrylic paints, which are generally less toxic than enamels and lacquer. You will also be using solvent cement (toxic) filler putties (solvents and some carriers toxic), cyanoacylate glues (low toxicity, but can be severe irritants—and who knows what else.

The cost of a good spray booth is TRIVIAL compared to the possible cost of not having adequate ventilation. To paraphrase the best advice my thesis adviser ever gave me: "Don't (mess) with the Voice of Experience!"

And I am that voice.

I have a Pace Peacekeeper spray booth in my den with a flexible exhaust hose that I stick in wedge in the window.  I run the fan everytime I p;rimeor airbrush.  Acrylics aren't nearly as toxic as laquers and the like, however the particulates are not good for you to inhale.

what if I am just using acrylics?  what do I need to do?

I have recently invested in a Pace booth, but have not given it much use yet. I would also like to use a respirator when appropriate, but wearing glasses when I want to see makes any mask I have found a non-starter. The common masks just do not work with the glasses, either lifting them away from their intended position or fogging them when I breathe. A full mask seems like the only one that would work, but this hobby is to be fun, not an ordeal. Do any of you glass-wearing friends out there have any suggestions?

When I'm in the workshop painting I ventilate outside while using my artograph spray booth.  Othertimes, if able, I use an old small Badger spray booth (I don't think they even make it anymore) and ventilate into a 5 gallon pail connected with dryer exhaust tubing.  I'm trying to go completely over to waterbases (when I can find the colors I want), so at worst these days I use a dust mask if I'm not at a spray booth. 

Spray booth (kitchen hood fan), respirator and open window for when I spray really stinky stuff like Tamiya rattle cans.

I have a booth I built with a bathroom exhaust fan built in. It takes it outside.  If I am using somehting really bad [stuff like SNJ or sanding resin], I use the fan plus a heavy respirator.