New to Tamiya paint...help?

Mike, bgrigg, hans. You all have valid points.
I admit that being an enamel user for so many years I've not adapted to using acrylics to well at all and tend to use the same techniques on them that I use on enamels. I'm not a real patient guy and tend to have the next color masked in an hour after applying base coats.
I'll have to try giving the paint more time to dry before moving on. And I really like Han's idea to use flat coat as a base for Tamiya paints. Some good info here, thanks for posting it up guys.

hkshooter

Interesting comments here.  I'll smile and move on.

As far as advice to the OP, prepare for a wonderfully applied coat of Tamiya paint to be lifted by any masking you have to do.
My biggest complaint about the stuff is that it's delicate. The tinyest excuse will render a scratch. Make sure your surface prep is good, very clean and preferably primed and lightly sanded before spraying your Tamiya base coats. So far, to date, everytime I've had to mask Tamiya paint the stuff has lifted. Fortunately, the last last time it just looked like paint chips, with the base coats lifting to show the NMF underneith so I left it.
I personally hate the stuff and only use it in rare cases.

You are not preparing the surface well or are using too high of a tack masking material as I have masked it with no problems at all. MM Acryl on the other hand I have had lifting problems with in the past. I am not sure how the newest formula is.

prepare for a wonderfully applied coat of Tamiya paint to be lifted by any masking you have to do.
My biggest complaint about the stuff is that it's delicate. The tinyest excuse will render a scratch.

I prime with Testor's Dullcoat when I'm using Tamiya paints...  Tamiya grabs onto that pretty tight and since it's laquer, it also "burns through" anything like skin oil or release agent you may have left on the surface... I've also had little or no lfting of paint by the tape as well...  When removing the tape, make sure that you pull it a right angle to the directon of the tape rather than along it's length too... Also, I highly fecommend using surgical gloves when handling fresh Tamiya finishes...  I grab a handful from the Doc's office every time I go there (I figure it's a fair trade for making me wait  another 20 minutes in there.)

As for scratches, you ain't kidding... Get a clear coat on top of it as soon as you can before handling the model... On the other hand, this trait is rather desireable when depicting scratches made by "foliage" on armored  and soft-skin tactical vehicles...  

Another Tamiya issue is that it shows those goofy color swirls in the plastic... You have to prime with a decent primer to cover those up.. I made the mistake of NOT priming once, with the following result..

I ended up leaving it since there were Invasion Stripes going on over most of the affected area, but I learned my lesson about priming when using Tamiya flats. 

For multiple color camouflage finishes (like RAF & Luftwaffe, or especially the T.O. 114 SE Asia camouflage), I usually paint the model overall with a Model Master enamel (the lightest shade) and the subsequent darker colors in Tamiya.  That way I can use the base clor as a primer and not add much to the ovreall paint thickness...

I use Future over the paint and I have seen some bad reactions when the paint underneath was not cured well enough so that is why I want my acrylics to be pretty much dry.

Yeah, I leave the Future for the floors...  I can cover a model with a couple squirts from a rattle-can of clear acrylic (Tree House acrylic gloss & flat are my preferred acrylic brands) and I don't have to clean an airbrush... Start to finish time for clear-coating is about 10 seconds.  I use Testor's Glosscoat to cover Tamiya paints, decal, then will shoot a coat of acrylic gloss over that if I'm going to apply oil or enamel washes, or leave it as is for acrylic/alcohol washes.  I drybrush with enamels, so the clear acrylic flat gets used first to kill the gloss, give the drybrushing something to grab, and tie everything together.... 

hkshooter

Interesting comments here.  I'll smile and move on.

As far as advice to the OP, prepare for a wonderfully applied coat of Tamiya paint to be lifted by any masking you have to do.
My biggest complaint about the stuff is that it's delicate. The tinyest excuse will render a scratch. Make sure your surface prep is good, very clean and preferably primed and lightly sanded before spraying your Tamiya base coats. So far, to date, everytime I've had to mask Tamiya paint the stuff has lifted. Fortunately, the last last time it just looked like paint chips, with the base coats lifting to show the NMF underneith so I left it.
I personally hate the stuff and only use it in rare cases.

I've found Tamiya to be very durable, once properly cured. I don't use a curing box, I just let it sit awhile before moving to the next step. Since I am a slow builder (Slow? Glacial is more like it. No, still too fast! Geological would be more appropriate!) I've never had the paint lift. Another thing is when you do mask, paint and remove the mask before the adhesive sets. Even the most gentle adhesion will eventually turn rock solid.

Hans von Hammer

 

 

If you can smell enamel paint it is not cured.

 

 

I know that... My point was that it doesn't really matter if it's "cured" since you're going to overcoat it anyway... "Curing" only really matters for automotive-quality finishes that are actually going to be exposed to the weather & the elements... On a model, it's mostly just wasting time, IMNSHO... If it makes ya feel better, go for it, but it's a placebo effect...   The only paints I use that require me to speed-up the drying process are oils... (My "curing box" for that is to set the model under a 100-watt lamp or on top of the furnace)  If they're dry enough to handle without leaving fingerprints, they're dry enough for overcoating & decals...

You don't have to take my word for it though...  If it makes you feel more comfortable, continue to march, by all means..

 

If that works for you that is fine Mike.You are using a different gloss coat so that probably makes a difference as well.

I use Future over the paint and I have seen some bad reactions when the paint underneath was not cured well enough so that is why I want my acrylics to be pretty much dry and 30-45 minutes in my aluminum foil lined cardboard box with a 60 watt bulb in the top.

Interesting comments here.  I'll smile and move on.

As far as advice to the OP, prepare for a wonderfully applied coat of Tamiya paint to be lifted by any masking you have to do.
My biggest complaint about the stuff is that it's delicate. The tinyest excuse will render a scratch. Make sure your surface prep is good, very clean and preferably primed and lightly sanded before spraying your Tamiya base coats. So far, to date, everytime I've had to mask Tamiya paint the stuff has lifted. Fortunately, the last last time it just looked like paint chips, with the base coats lifting to show the NMF underneith so I left it.
I personally hate the stuff and only use it in rare cases.

If you can smell enamel paint it is not cured.

I know that... My point was that it doesn't really matter if it's "cured" since you're going to overcoat it anyway... "Curing" only really matters for automotive-quality finishes that are actually going to be exposed to the weather & the elements... On a model, it's mostly just wasting time, IMNSHO... If it makes ya feel better, go for it, but it's a placebo effect...   The only paints I use that require me to speed-up the drying process are oils... (My "curing box" for that is to set the model under a 100-watt lamp or on top of the furnace)  If they're dry enough to handle without leaving fingerprints, they're dry enough for overcoating & decals...

You don't have to take my word for it though...  If it makes you feel more comfortable, continue to march, by all means..

Hans von Hammer

 

 

Also, I can cure Tamiya paints in my curing box and be ready to coat it in Future in 2 hours or so which you can't do with enamels.

 

 Two hours? Curing-box? How quaint...

Seroiusly though...

Can't do that with enamels?  Sure you can, especially Model Master enamels...

Heck, I shoot mine with a rattle-can of Testor's Glosscoat or Treehouse Acylic gloss (which one I use depends on the wash & drybrushing paint-type I'm going to use) after 15-20 minutes of air-drying and start decaling 30 minutes after THAT...  Been doing it that way for about 25 years ( for Tamiya paint, with enamels, about 35 years) without any issues...  

 

At least the Acrylics are dry after it has been in my curing box those enamels are not!

If you can smell enamel paint it is not cured.

I take back the time I said about curing the Tamiya paint as it's been a while.
I think I only put it in there for maybe 45 minutes if I remember correctly.

Also, I can cure Tamiya paints in my curing box and be ready to coat it in Future in 2 hours or so which you can't do with enamels.

 Two hours? Curing-box? How quaint...

Seroiusly though...

Can't do that with enamels?  Sure you can, especially Model Master enamels...

Heck, I shoot mine with a rattle-can of Testor's Glosscoat or Treehouse Acylic gloss (which one I use depends on the wash & drybrushing paint-type I'm going to use) after 15-20 minutes of air-drying and start decaling 30 minutes after THAT...  Been doing it that way for about 25 years ( for Tamiya paint, with enamels, about 35 years) without any issues...  

Bgrigg posted some good info.

One other thing about how much each cost.

Tamiya comes in 1/3 oz and 3/4 oz bottles while MM comes in 1/2 oz bottles.

Everywhere I've bought them Tamiya is cheaper per oz.

You're welcome, Al!

Thanks for the kind words, Bill.

I use Tamiya exclusively as well and I don't mind mixing colors to come up with what I want, we are modelers after all. If people want to use enamels and lacquer thinner to clean up then good for them, I prefer not to have flammable, toxic substances used in modeling if I don't have to.

Also, I can cure Tamiya paints in my curing box and be ready to coat it in Future in 2 hours or so which you can't do with enamels.

Ah, but you came back 'cause you know the answers are here!

Al is entitled to his opinion, I don't always agree with him, but he has the right to express it. We have the equal right to ignore it, and that is what Freedom is all about! I know that I will never question his ability to paint! His figures are remarkable works of art, and they bring me much pleasure when he posts pics of them.

Some of his points about MM are quite accurate. I wish Tamiya offered a broader range of colors. Then again, I wish MM had the same level of quality control, as I have had paints from them that range from watery to thick. So much variation that I chose willingly to use only Tamiya paints exclusively.

It's all good information, and I hope that you get the paints you need to complete your project.

Thanks Hans and Bgrigg, I really appreciate the actual answer to the question as opposed to a damn lecture as to why I'm using a different brand of paint. Seriously al, if you can't answer a simple question keep your flytrap shut. Now I remember why I left here in the first place.

1. What is the thinning ratio for the acrylic paint for airbrushing?

I don't have a real ratio, other than maybe 30-70 paint-alcohol (I don't use the Tamiya thinner) and then adjust during test-shots.. Frankly, I err on the side of too thin vs not thin enough.. I can always shoot it again until the proper coverage is achieved..

I was like you once with the cans of propellant...  You really need to get rid of them... I bought a knock-off of the Testor's Blue Mini compressor for like 35.00 on Ebay... Can't regulate the air pressure until I get a storage tank though it's still WAY better & cheaper... 

Another method of supplying air you might condsider.. I used to use a lawn mower tire that I rigged up to fit my AB hose.. I took a valve-stem to the plumbing shop and just kept cobbling fittings together until the hose fit.  Then refills were as close as the nearest gas station air compressor...

Discounting Al's legendary hatred of Tamiya paints for a moment.

The learning curve isn't that steep, heck I figured it out! You can use isopropyl alcohol as a thinner (add some acrylic retarder to prevent tip dry). I've had tip dry with both brands, And MM obviously doesn't have every color as since Klem is struggling to find the correct color to the point of considering switching brands.

I am curious as to the comment about Tamiya being expensive in MA? My LHS stocks both MM Acryl and Tamiya and they are within pennies of each other. Squadron lists Tamiya at $3.10/bottle vs. MM Acryl at $4.30. Sprue Brothers has Tamiya at $2.70 vs. $2.90 for MM. (lesson, don't buy paint at Sqaudron!)

Given that MM is a 1/2 oz. bottle compared to Tamiya's 23ml (.78 oz), and taking the cheapest of the comparisons above, MM Acryl is $742.40 per US gallon compared to Tamiya at $443.07, making Tamiya a bargain in comparison. If your LHS is charging more that the prices quoted above, I would suggest buying from Sprue Brothers!

Well, I use MM exclusively, have forever and a day. The only reason I got the Tamiya stuff is because as of late I seem to be on a UK kick. Got a few Jaguar GR1's, a Hawker Hunter and  a Tornado IDS. I couldn't find some of the colors in the MM line without having to mix up more colors. I already have too many mixed bottles as it is. I do know the pro's and con's of both already...which is precisely why I have stuck with MM since day one, I love the paints. Besides, it's cheaper using a rattle can on 1/32 than buying several of the 1/2 oz. MM bottles. AND, this stuff ain't cheap here in massachusetts.

The bigger questio is why?

Let's  play this out.

MM: Wide range of colors matched to FS, ANA, RLM, etc. standards. Get the exact color out of the bottle for just about any country or time period

Tamiya: Small range of colors, non matched , need to do serious color mixing to match even some basic colors

MM: easily brushable

Tamiya: brushable after a steep learing curve

MM: thinnable with generic thinner from the hardware store

Tamiya: proprietary thinner

MM: minimal build up on the airbrush tip

Tamiya: unless specially thinned, much build up on the airbrush tip (as with most acrylics)

I've never decanted their rattle cans, but I'm pretty sure Matt Usher has. Hopefully, he'll chime in with the answer.

The 2% rule holds true for thinning their acrylic line.

Do some searching on the forums for the technique to hand brush. Tamiya "rolls" up very quickly due to it's very fast surface drying. Some people don't even try to learn how, but once you have the technique down, it's pretty easy.