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substitute for Vallejo primer

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  • Member since
    March, 2003
substitute for Vallejo primer
Posted by icit on Thursday, February 12, 2015 7:47 AM

Okay, in the last couple of days I've been getting my 1/32nd Trumpeter Avenger ready for painting and I have recently moved from Tamiya to Vallejo paints. I've spent the better part of a year getting this bird done and now that I can see light at the end of the tunnel I've been inundated with advice and seen enough videos on youtube about how bad Vallejo primers are and that it will spell disaster for the project. I've been told that Vallejo and Tamiya don't play well together and so as not to have wasted a good junk of money spent on new Vallejo projects, is there a substitute primer that will work with Vallejo paints?

Scared and confused.

ICIT 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Northern New Jersey
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, February 12, 2015 7:52 AM

The Tamiya Fine in the rattlecan is okay to use.Putting Vallejo over that primer will not be problem.I also like Mr Surfacer 1200 in the rattlecan.

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:40 AM

I use Rustoleum Grey Primer in rattle can. Last longer and cheaper too.

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:18 AM

Mr. Surfacer. Nothing else.

 

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:00 AM

My 2 cents on Vallejo Surface Primer:

Pros: Lays down great, self-leveling, excellent detail preservation. Given a lot of time, will cure to a hard and durable state.

Cons: Doesn't adhere well IMO and I don't trust it for exterior surfaces that will need to be masked, or might be in danger of scratching during construction.

It's my primer of choice Vallejo black surface primer)  for aircraft interiors where I want a dark base cost under the color, for example.

For aircraft exteriors, my current primer of choice is also Mr Surfacer. I shoot mine on with a/b because of my poor rattle can skills. I've also used Tamiya primer under Vallejo but prefer Mr Surfacer these days.

-Greg

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, February 12, 2015 1:26 PM

I have just switch from Mr Surfacer to Alclad. I really like it, just as good as surface and you get 3 times as much for the same price.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Academy 1/72nd P-47D

  • Member since
    August, 2012
Posted by AndrewW on Thursday, February 12, 2015 2:16 PM

AK Interactive's white primer shoots really nicely for me, is acrylic, bonds decently when laid in lightly, and plays beautifully with Vallejo paints.  Everyone's got their own preference, and that's mine.

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne.


  • Member since
    March, 2003
Posted by icit on Thursday, February 12, 2015 2:41 PM

Thanks to all, at least it's not all doom and gloom as per some of our peers- this gives me some options since I have most of the products mentioned in my stash. Stay tuned I will let you know what happens.

ICIT

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, February 12, 2015 5:41 PM

Bish

I have just switch from Mr Surfacer to Alclad. I really like it, just as good as surface and you get 3 times as much for the same price.

Hmmmm. Thanks, Bish.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May, 2012
  • From: Arizona
Posted by pilotjohn on Thursday, February 12, 2015 7:22 PM

I use Stynylrez from Badger.  Works great.  Acrylic, sprays without thinning, no odor, and you can even sand it which I was never able to do with Vallejo's primer.

John

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Thursday, February 12, 2015 7:44 PM

Another happy Stynylrez user here. I also keep some Alclad surface primer around and some of the AK Interactive.

Stynylrez is my main primer now, though. This is the primer I settled on during our FSM discussions a while back when comparing Vallejo, AK, the Alclad and others, in our search for a good Acrylic primer, for all of us that didn't want to have to prime with "smelly" primers and then paint with acrylics.

As John says, you can sand it, it has no odor,,,,,,,,and he left out out fast it dries.

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:40 PM

I've never heard of Stynylrez. Where do you find it?

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:56 PM

webairbrushes.com

webairbrushes.com/paint.htm

scroll down to Stynylrez, then you have color and size choices in a drop down menu

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, February 13, 2015 10:11 AM

Rex, you have actually ordered from webairbrushes.com I presume? Thanks for the link, this stuff is really hard to find and I never would have otherwise.

I'd really like to try Stynylrez, thanks to all for the discussion. It concerns me though that all the raving reviews and utube videos I've found are by miniatures painters.

So I'm curious, you mention you keep some Alclad and AK Interactive around. Does this mean there are applications that you prefer not to use the Stynylrez, and if so, why? Do you find the adhesion, detail preservation, scratch and lift-off resistace as good as solvent-based primers? Same question to you, pilot john.

I've yet to find a solvent based primer I don't like, but spraying it in my workshop/bsmt really bothers me.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May, 2012
  • From: Arizona
Posted by pilotjohn on Friday, February 13, 2015 10:43 AM

Greg;

I did my test last July.  Here is the link (If I copied it correctly):

cs.finescale.com/.../160833.aspx

I would answer that I use the Vallejo on armor as I rarely need to sand after priming and I bought some Vallejo so I just don't want to throw it out.  It levels very well and you can spray away into all the nooks and crannies on the armor surfaces.  The AK primer I have not used since as I didn't think it provided me any reason to switch.  I do remember the AK being like the Vallejo in that it goes on wetter than the Stynlyrez.  I realize there are lots of preferences and experiences, but having given either the Vallejo or Stynylrez 24 hours to dry, I have only had one case where the paint peeled when masking and I am pretty sure I had some debris on the surface when I sprayed the primer.

I use Model Color and Model Air 95% of the time.  The rest is Model Master from Testors and then a small amount of Tamiya.  I have even sprayed Model Air on a well cleaned bare plastic surface on cockpit interiors and wheel wells (I used RLM04 and RLM66), and never had a problem with peeling when I was handling and assembling.  I do always wait 24 hours between coats and/or handling.  I live in Arizona so the humidity is very low and that will help the drying.  I also don't know all the chemical interactions and how that might effect things, but I think with Golden Acrylic Medium, and also a drop or two of Flo-Aid from Liquitex.  I avoid water as a thinner as it can allow the paint to break down if you put too much in.  I have found that the acrylic medium (which they say is an acrylic binder without any color) allows me to thin it way down with no loss of consistency to the color.

Sorry, that was more of a story than you asked for but I was on a roll:)

John

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Long Island, NY
Posted by Intruder38 on Friday, February 13, 2015 10:59 AM

Take a look at Amazon.com  "Badger Primers"

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, February 13, 2015 11:16 AM

Intruder38

Take a look at Amazon.com  "Badger Primers"

Thanks for that. I don't know why I forget to check Amazon when looking for stuff.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, February 13, 2015 11:39 AM

John, you never have to apologize for long posts to me. It takes words to convey thoughts, and I appreciate your detailed reply.

That thread you linked to is AWESOME! How in the world did I manage to miss it? Thanks very much for the link!

Just FYI I've also been using primarily Vallejo Model Air and Model Color for about a year and a half, and have gone through the disappointing  learning curve with sanding Vallejo. I'm surprised you found the Vallejo sanded as well as it did with the finer grits.

Thanks again for all the great info, John!

Rex, you answered my question about your already having ordered from webairbrushes with no problems in the thread John linked to.

So who has an opinion of scratch and scrape resistance of the best acrlic primer and a good solvent based primer like Mr Surfacer, Alclad, or Tamiya? Am I correct in assuming the solvent-based ones would be more durable? So in the end it sort of comes down to how badly we don't want to spray solvent-based primers indoors??

-Greg

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Friday, February 13, 2015 1:02 PM

Greg, I just saw your post, but, I am glad you found that part of the answer already.

My intent is to use the Stynlyrez primer 100% of the time,,,,,,,,,I like this Gray bottle so much that I intend to buy their largest bottle of White and use that for the bottom of my USN models.

but, before I bought it, I already had the Alclad and the AK interactive. I have about 10 others, also. I will use the Alclad and the AK if I find myself in between orders if I run out of the Stynlyrez.

I *have* to build and paint indoors these days,,,,,,,unless I want to take the Alclad out on the porch and spray that out there. And I did that for a few years back in the day, and already know all the wonderful model ruining things that can happen when spraying paint out in the open, lol. I just can't make myself throw out all the primers that I have purchased in my search for one that I can use and that I like.

I have a sort of "get out of 'smell jail' free card" to use the very fine Surfacer-Primers that came in jars, but that is because we had to agree to use putties indoors, as long as they get used as sparingly as possible.

Plus, they are each useful FS Grays when they dry. (both Mr Surfacer 1000 and Mr PrimerSurfacer 1000 smell like the best tradition of Lacquer/Enamel based hobby products)

I would be interested in knowing if anyone learned how to get the Vallejo PolyUrethane primers to go on and not shrink quite so much into a "paint membrane" on their models. I bought the big tall bottles of their Gray and their White, in addition to a smaller bottle of their Olive Drab,,,,,and I would like to use them at least as paint, instead of just as a method of holding the paint rack down.

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    December, 2011
Posted by Chrisk-k on Friday, February 13, 2015 1:13 PM

I have Vallejo, AK, Stynlyrez & Tamiya primers.  AK and Stynlyrez are tougher than Vallejo.  However, Tamiya primers beats all of them in terms of adhesion, toughness & spray-ability.  Acrylic primers are not as good as solvent-based primers.

Iwata HP-CS | Iwata HP-CR | Iwata HP-M2 | H&S Evolution | Iwata Smart Jet + Sparmax Tank

  • Member since
    December, 2014
Posted by Rory T on Friday, February 13, 2015 3:34 PM

Hello BlackSheep, have you tried decanting this primer for use with airbrushing?. Iam new to modeling and trying to find my way through all the info iam finding. I have vallejo primer but have not tried it yet, i have used Rustoleum in the can but find it hard to control coverage. Thanks rory

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, February 13, 2015 7:03 PM

Rex, thank you for your comprehensive reply, mate.

It sounds as if we have the same goal, to find an indoor friendly acrylic primer to stick with, even if it is not totally comparable with a solvent-based primer, as Chris pointed out.

I will definitely be ordering some Stynlrez, even if I can't pronounce it.

Though I can't answer you question about Vallejo, I can report that I sprayed the inside of some Stuka wheel pants with it last week. I got around to them last night, and was rather surprised at how hard it had set up. Even did a scratch/scrape test, not awful.

I'm lucky, I don't think my boss would complain if I sprayed straight lacquer thinner all afternoon long. But not having a booth or a vent, spraying this stuff indoors just can't be good.

Thanks again, gents.

-Greg

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Friday, February 13, 2015 7:23 PM

sty nul rez is how I say it

now, as with all things, there is no guarantee that I am doing it right, LOL

(according to my neighbors I "don't sound lack y'all come from 'round heyah",,,,,and they are right, I am a Wisconsinite living in the Sunny South,,,,,,so, I no longer sound like I belong in either place)

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    May, 2012
  • From: Arizona
Posted by pilotjohn on Friday, February 13, 2015 7:45 PM

Guys;

Here is Ken from Badger:

www.youtube.com/watch

John

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, February 14, 2015 10:02 AM

According to the video John linked to, you got it right, Rex. Bow Down

Cool video, John. Thanks. Whoever Jay is he sounds a little like Howard Stern.

Styrene, vinyl, and resin. Hmmm. Not I'm even more intrigued. Geeked

-Greg

  • Member since
    December, 2011
Posted by Chrisk-k on Saturday, February 14, 2015 6:33 PM

In this winter I'm using Stynlrez, which I like much more than AK & Vallejo primers.  It's just too cold to leave the windows open.  I'll use Tamiya when it gets warm.

Iwata HP-CS | Iwata HP-CR | Iwata HP-M2 | H&S Evolution | Iwata Smart Jet + Sparmax Tank

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • From: Nampa, Idaho
Posted by jelliott523 on Wednesday, January 27, 2016 8:28 AM

Sorry for resurecting an old thread; however, I myself had been looking for some new primers, as I am trying to limit spraying the strong smelling paints and primers. I do have a small paint booth, but I still tend to get some smell if I paint in my workspace. Typically, especially if I am using a rattlecan, I will spray in the garage or outside, depending on the weather.

I switched to using the Ammo of Mig primers and have just ordered my first batch of Stynylrez to give it a shot. I have to say, I really like Ammo Primer, I suppose its probably close to AK's primer. I used to use Krylon primer in a rattlecan, but since you can find their regular primer anymore, I've had to find an alternative.

I noticed on several posts people mentioning to order from webairbrush, I checked their site and it was rather expensive. I was able to find it at hobbyworld.com for a lot cheaper. I was going to order from Amazon; however they said it would take between 3 and 7 months to get here. hobbylinc had it as well, but they were out until mid-March. I cant believe how hard this stuff is to find here in the States, even though its a made in the USA product.

On the Bench:  Lots of unfinished projects!  Smile

  • Member since
    June, 2010
Posted by 5-high on Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:38 AM

Tamiya fine ..grey/white for me . I don't care for the smell ...but I have a wicked spraybooth so no matter. .it's foam safe as I do a lot of r.c aircraft repainting for other people. .I decant a large amount. .after degassing  it lasts in a jar for a long time. .best of all ..no thinning . It's sands good too . 

5-high 

  • Member since
    January, 2004
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by kenbadger on Saturday, April 01, 2017 10:14 AM

The name of the product is Stynylrez.  Pronounced sty nil rez.  It comes from Styrene, Vinyl, and Resin - which were the three substrates we most focused on in development of the product.  Although these substrates are all relatively common to the craft of finescale modeling, they are also amongst the most difficult on which to create a good solid media adhesion and bond.  So we knew if we could develop a primer product that would stick to these three substrates, and withstand the finishing process requirements of finescale modelers, it would also adhere durably to other substrates, including other plastics, various metals, and woods.  All indications are that we have succeeded in our objective to produce a surface priming product that would provide the "Perfect Prime Everytime".

Take air, Ken @ Badger

Mark 10:27

kenbadger@aol.com 

AMERICAN MADE AIRBRUSH EXCELLENCE 

www.badgerairbrush.com

  • Member since
    January, 2004
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by kenbadger on Saturday, April 01, 2017 10:16 AM
If you go to Amazon look for USA Airbrush Supply. They are a third party seller that has an ample invnetory of Stynylrez - including the six new colors.

Take air, Ken @ Badger

Mark 10:27

kenbadger@aol.com 

AMERICAN MADE AIRBRUSH EXCELLENCE 

www.badgerairbrush.com

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