Primer or no primer?

I like to use it,I don't clean the parts so it does help,also with metal barrels,resin,and PE parts it helps.It doesn't seem to obscure detail as it levels out nicely.I have been using Tamiya Fine or Mr Surfacer 1200 rattlecans

But yes,primer isn't always necessary.

If you airbrush the primer, you should be able to control the thickness adequately.  Unless the detail is exceedingly fine, maybe a 1:144 model, it shouldn't be a problem. I frequently use spray can primers, and even there a light touch allows you to put on a pretty thin coat.  The thinner the coat, the rougher it will be, but for matt finishes this is not a problem.  Even for a final gloss coat very fine sandpaper prepares primer for gloss paint.

I use primer because it helps paint stick better on the kits. If you spray in several light coats (2 or 3 is plenty), you won't lose the details. Just don't lay the primer on too thick.

I clean the parts with warm water and a couple of drops of Super Clean, to remove all grease, and I apply a primer, when it comes time to paint.  I use Tamiya's fine surfacer primer, which does a good job of covering and yet is finely-grained enough that it doesn't obscure fine details.  Can you apply finish coats without priming?  Certainly.  I just feel I get better results, when I use a primer coat.

Hope that helps!

Best regards,

Brad

Rocky, i only started useing primer a couple of years ago, the main reason i didn't before was for the reason you say, loseing detail. But i have found that even on 1/72nd aircrfat, i don't lose anything. But saying that, i don't use it all the time and i never had any issues when i wasn't, and i have never washed my kits. I have had the occasional issue with resin when not washed, btu never plastic. So don't feel obliged to use it.

Thanks for the replies guys,I have used the tamiya fine surface primer a few times and really liked it(except for the price) so I may try picking up a can of that for my current builds.

Have any of you tried the Vallejo surface primer?

thank you again,

   Rocky 

I haven't but Vallejo is a whole different beast. Never use anything containing alcohol for thinning - unless you like cleaning up a goopy mess.

I'm not really fond of the Vallejo. I find it goes on rubbery, takes a long time to dry, let alone cure, and doesn't adhere all that well.

But the big negative is it cannot be sanded, it just rolls up, flakes, whatever. Make quite a mess.

I wonder who does use it? Figure painters, perhaps? I've used it to lay a black base coat on stuff like cockpits which will not be sanded, works great and saves the clean up fuss of the stinky stuff.

On the plus, it sprays and covers really well and is avail in at least 3 colours.

Otherwise, Vallejo is my go to line of paints.

IMO, you can't really go wrong with Tamiya surface primer, and as much as I don't like spraying anything except acryls or at least non-stinky so-called acryls, it's either Tamiya, Mr Surfacer, or Alclad primer for me from now on.

I love Tamiya surface primer but hate the price and that so much paint goes elsewhere because you have limited control. I have found Model Master primer from the bottle to be pretty much useless. I now use Alclad primers and will never look back.

BTW, I too was primarily a sci-fi builder but now do at least as many, if not more, 1/48 military aircraft. Whole other set of skills to learn but it's been a fun ride so far :)

I always prime.  I use either Mr. Surfacer 1000 or 1500 depending on the situation.  Thinned with a levelling lacquer thinner the stuff is money.  I've never had an issue with paint lifting.  I hear Tamiya is pretty good, but I like to airbrush instead of rattlecans.

iSteve

I love Tamiya surface primer but hate the price and that so much paint goes elsewhere because you have limited control. I have found Model Master primer from the bottle to be pretty much useless. I now use Alclad primers and will never look back.

BTW, I too was primarily a sci-fi builder but now do at least as many, if not more, 1/48 military aircraft. Whole other set of skills to learn but it's been a fun ride so far :)

 

That is one of the advantages of an airbrush over a spray can.  I only use my spray booth for the later.  With the airbrush I get so little overspray I just spray at my workbench.  If you use an airbrush as a spray gun, opening it way up, you will get overspray.  But dialing the flow down, and using it as a brush-mark-less brush, you get great control.

iSteve

I love Tamiya surface primer but hate the price and that so much paint goes elsewhere because you have limited control. I have found Model Master primer from the bottle to be pretty much useless. I now use Alclad primers and will never look back.

BTW, I too was primarily a sci-fi builder but now do at least as many, if not more, 1/48 military aircraft. Whole other set of skills to learn but it's been a fun ride so far :)

Steve, if you mean the Model Master acrylic primer in the bottle, it isn't really primer. It is a color Testors chose to call "Primer". I, like you, learned this the hard way. Not one of Testors' smoothest moves, IMO.

I too am very fond of the Alclad primer, and also like you, was pretty much sold after my first go with it.

Here my primer M.O. more or less:

If it's nice outside, I'm lazy, and have a small primer job (hardly worth cleaning the a/b over), I'll go outside with a can of Tamiya.

If I'm feeling anal and wanting to see all that surface detail the best I can and also foresee more sanding than I'm fond of, I'll shoot Mr Surfacer (as Stu mentioned above, whichever recipe fits the bill).

Otherwise, it's Alclad.

I really like Tamiya white primer. It is pricey, but it's never let me down and I can get a couple of builds out of a can.

I always always prime. And usually on the sprue.

For some reason Mr. Surfacer is hard to find. I guess its online and i'll try it.

I don't think there's any relationship with washing vs. priming. First, I usually don't wash, except for older kits. Second, I'd imagine that a kit with mold release, oil or whatever on it isn't going to have primer stick to it either!

Yes to Greg and Don -

The Tamiya is a good primer, Vallejo isn't. Alclad works really well, and I recently started using Stynylrez.

Limited occasions, but Stynylrez works great every time for me. Spray one day, overnight room temp dry, super well cured by next day. No lifting at all yet, sands better than any I've found so far. Cleanup is quick with lacquer thinner. I have not felt the need to thin it as yet.

After stirring the bottom of the bottle well with a Tamiys stirring paddle, I do make sure to agitate it well with the little electric mixer, to ensure a thorough blend of the solids that do settle to the bottom.

Actually I do that with all paints, I don't find shaking it enough to get the bottom sediments blended in. These days I use small stainless nuts in the bottles, that also ensures getting the bottom stirred up. 

Inexpensive, three large bottles of black, white and gray on Ebay, for just a tad over US $30.00! I can see this batch lasting for a very long time.

Patrick

That reminds me... I really to buy me some Stynylrez. I keep forgetting to get some. I've heard so many positive things about them.

always primer. 2 reasons: first to show possible imprefections that need to be corrected before painting, second to give paint something to bite to to avoid peeling later.

Greg

I'm not really fond of the Vallejo. I find it goes on rubbery, takes a long time to dry, let alone cure, and doesn't adhere all that well. But the big negative is it cannot be sanded, it just rolls up, flakes, whatever. Make quite a mess.

This brings me to my point of addressing the topic at hand: Yes, I do use primer for the sole purpose of finding all those boo-boos before I apply my paint coats.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

That reminds me... I really to buy me some Stynylrez. I keep forgetting to get some. I've heard so many positive things about them.

 

I thought the exact same thing when read Patrick's post.

Joe, I didn't know you used Vallejo primer on your cars. That's interesting to know.

One positive about the stuff I forgot to mention is it sprays and lays down very nicely.

Greg

Joe, I didn't know you used Vallejo primer on your cars. That's interesting to know.

mustang1989

 

 

Greg

Joe, I didn't know you used Vallejo primer on your cars. That's interesting to know.

 

 

Not exactly. lol . I use Tamiya primer on everything. For military finishes I use Vallejo Air paint. Cars....that gets Tamiya for base coat and MM enamel gloss coats. Sorry for the confusion good friend.

 

 

I started the confusion by typing "Vallejo" instead of "Vallejo primer". I was only griping about the primer, I like the paints.

Glad you clarified, I was scratching my head there. Thx.

to add, I use vallejo primer with a few drops of their airbrush thinner mixed in. Only use Vallejo airbrush thinner and sparingly too. Tamiay x-20 will ruin the primer, Never use it with vallejo. Light coats built up. I dry the primer with a hair dryer when I am done for a few minutes and it has solved all my sanding issues. dries with a great finish and very hard. You still need to wait a day to sand it but after that there are no problems. I clean the airbrush with denatured alcohol through the airbrush. Its cheap at the hardware store and works great. dont use windex. it will gum it up.

This may make no difference at this late date but, for what it's worth . . . 

I used to paint airplanes for the navy. The way I was taught to prime any surface was to spray the primer thinly so that the metal surface could be seen under the primer. I would think that a very thin coat, applied so that the plastic could be seen when priming was done, should be sufficient to hold any topcoat. Primers, if they are true primers, slightly etch the surface in order to hold and they also are specifically designed to hold topcoats. If applied correctly primers won't hide any detail.

David from PA

This may make no difference at this late date but, for what it's worth . . . 

I used to paint airplanes for the navy. The way I was taught to prime any surface was to spray the primer thinly so that the metal surface could be seen under the primer. I would think that a very thin coat, applied so that the plastic could be seen when priming was done, should be sufficient to hold any topcoat. Primers, if they are true primers, slightly etch the surface in order to hold and they also are specifically designed to hold topcoats. If applied correctly primers won't hide any detail.

 

For lacquer primers, such as auto paint primers, or Krylon primer, the stuff drys so fast that I put down a thin coat, as the above poster says, wait about thirty seconds, and then put on a heavier coat.

i prime everything. since i do a lot of 1/35 armor i use Ace Hardware NOW gray. i have used Ta miya for small ships as it is finer. i have painted Tamiya, MMA, PolyS and vallejo over it, masked with silly putty, pposter "tape", masking tape with no liftoff.

I always use primer. For autos it's Plastikote T235 sandable primer. Think Tamiya in a big can.

Armor gets a colored primer from the Rustoleum "Camouflage" line. "Dark Green" is a good color for OD, "Army Green" is a great base for Russian 4B0 green. "khaki" is good for any desert camo, "Earth Brown" and "Black" work good on tracks.

I just used Vallejo Primer for the first time Wednesday. I bought a big bottle of their RAL 8000 color for a series of DAK tanks.

In playing around with the paint,I feel it works great as a base coat. Like previously mentioned, don't expect to sad away flaws after using this. In fact I primed a piece with the Rustoleum Khaki and then used the Vallejo Primer over that. I added a drop of Vallejo thinner and it sprayed just fine. I put the piece up and left it so I cannot comment on dry/cure times.

OldGoat

In playing around with the paint,I feel it works great as a base coat. Like previously mentioned, don't expect to sad away flaws after using this. In fact I primed a piece with the Rustoleum Khaki and then used the Vallejo Primer over that. I added a drop of Vallejo thinner and it sprayed just fine. I put the piece up and left it so I cannot comment on dry/cure times.

 

There are thick, heavily bodied primers, like auto body sandable primers.  These will fill in small sanding scratches and small flaws.  The downside is that they tend to obscure fine detail.  So you must weigh the advantages and disadvantages.  If the model is larger scale, or does not have a lot of fine detail, then a heavy bodied primer can indeed reduce the amount of work on things like seam finishing and scratch removal.

Building my first ship model in 50+ years. Which is better white or grey primer? It is a 1/600 of the ship class I serverd on and will be decaled as my ship. I'm will be trying Tamiya Fine Spray.

Replying to this super late - I have white, gray and black primer, and generally speaking I tend to use the one that is closest in value to the color I will be laying on top of it. I just recently bought the white to use for a couple car kits what were painted racing white and light yellow.