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Acrylic Paint not sticking

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  • Member since
    November 2018
Acrylic Paint not sticking
Posted by Mr Ed on Monday, March 4, 2019 10:25 AM

I recently got back into modeling and enjoy aircraft.  I normally use enamel paint, but recently decided to try acrylic.  I mixed the primer 50/50 with water and applied the primer with air brush. However, when applying some masking tape the primer came off when I removed the tape to reposition. I washed the parts in soapy water before painting and do not understand why the primer is not adhereing to the model. where did I go wrong.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, March 4, 2019 10:59 AM

Which brand of primer are you using? According to posts here and elsewhere, results may vary. 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, March 4, 2019 11:10 AM

GMorrison
Which brand of primer are you using?

Ditto that.

Also, I cannot think of any actual primer you should be diluting with water or anything else. But who knows, maybe I'm missing something here.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, March 4, 2019 11:33 AM

Along with asking what primer you used and if it was appropriate to thin with water and particularly that much, how long did you wait till masking ?

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by Mr Ed on Monday, March 4, 2019 12:07 PM
I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.
  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, March 4, 2019 2:19 PM

Also if you used regular white masking tape and did not try to "de tack" the adhesive by sticking it to say your hand and removing it a few times then the adhesive may have been to strong. Tamiya makes good tape for modeling. Even then I use the de tacking method.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Monday, March 4, 2019 7:01 PM

Regular masking tape is a big no-no. Too much tackiness and will cause paint to pull off. What brand primer are you using with water to thin? Is it an acrylic primer? I would use enamel based primer instead.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, March 4, 2019 7:12 PM

I use Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer, and I also use automotive primers, usually Walmart's house brand; and Rustoleum primers.  I spray them right from the rattlecans.

For masking, I use Tamiya tape.  In a pinch, I will use 3M blue painter's tape, though I will de-tack it as described above.

I have never had any problems with finish coats, acrylic or otherwise, applied over those primers lifting off, or with the primers lifting off.

 

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by BarrettDuke on Monday, March 4, 2019 7:24 PM

Hey, Mr. Ed. Sorry to hear you're having those problems. It is frustrating. Did you wash the plastic before you applied the primer? If not, you may still have mold release on the plastic, and that's preventing the primer from grabbing the plastic. I wipe plastic models down with 90% Isopropyl alcohol before I try to put any coatings on them. I think most people use dish soap, but I've always worried that I might leave a slight coating of that behind and end up with the same problem. Also, I prime with Mr. Primer spray can enamel primer and then paint with acrylics. I find that procedure almost! never fails. But, you could do all of that and still pull up paint if your masking tape is too sticky. Barrett 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, March 4, 2019 8:39 PM

the Baron

I use Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer, and I also use automotive primers, usually Walmart's house brand; and Rustoleum primers.  I spray them right from the rattlecans.

For masking, I use Tamiya tape.  In a pinch, I will use 3M blue painter's tape, though I will de-tack it as described above.

I have never had any problems with finish coats, acrylic or otherwise, applied over those primers lifting off, or with the primers lifting off.

 

 

What he said- soup to nuts.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Monday, March 4, 2019 9:52 PM

the Baron

I use Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer, and I also use automotive primers, usually Walmart's house brand; and Rustoleum primers.  I spray them right from the rattlecans.

For masking, I use Tamiya tape.  In a pinch, I will use 3M blue painter's tape, though I will de-tack it as described above.

I have never had any problems with finish coats, acrylic or otherwise, applied over those primers lifting off, or with the primers lifting off.

 

 

 

Ditto on that. I use Frog brand yellow tape. It's basically the same as Tamiya tape. Although I haven't seen Frog yellow tape around as of late so I may have a go with green Frog tape.

 

I usually avoid 3M Blue painter tape due to their harsh tackiness.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, March 4, 2019 11:46 PM

I’m guessing Acryl or Vallejo which are the most common to have that issue. Tamiya or Alclad primers are simply the best and will not lift when removing masking tape.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: the redlands Fl
Posted by crown r n7 on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 5:07 AM

when I use Tamiya acryics I thin with their thinner,rubbing alcohol and or orginal windex. I dont use water maybe the water is thinning the paints tackyness? try it out on some plastic spoons first

Nick.

  • Member since
    July 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 6:24 AM

I use stynilrez and have quite good luck with it. It's an acrylic primer that comes in white, black, and gray. No thinning required. The directions say you can paint on it after it dries for 10 minutes but I've learned it's better to be patient and wait a day. I paint only with Tamiya acrylics on top of that and have had no issues.

Also if you don't have a cheap model to use as a paint mule for testing paints and different techniques, I strongly recommend it, they are extremely helpful. Don't know what I'd do without mine.

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 6:56 AM

12-18 months ago I tried Badger Stynylrez primer and haven't looked back.

No odor non toxic, good performance. I do thin it slightly, maybe 10-15%. It flows well, self leveling. Never had any issues with tape.  Nuff said.

My test subjects for experimenting with various paints are prescription bottles, I have a 1 gallon freezer bag full of them, plus some loose ones kicking around.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 12:46 PM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

...I usually avoid 3M Blue painter tape due to their harsh tackiness.

 
Yeah, I used it briefly as my main masking tape, till I switched to Tamiya's tape.  But I didn't have as much of a problem with the tack, as I did with its tendency to shred or fray along cut edges.  And its tendency to leave a residue.  I would mask a canopy with it, and have to go back and clean awy little fibers and fuzzies along the edges, and the tape always left a lot of adhesive behind.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 12:49 PM

I use it as my "second row", where it's stuck down on the "first row" of Tamiya tape more than to the model. I do like it.

ZAT
  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by ZAT on Wednesday, March 6, 2019 12:56 PM

Mr Ed
I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.
 

When you say MM, I’m assuming you mean Mission Models??  They have some pretty specific thinning instructions. I think their FAQ specifically states to not thin 50/50. If it’s not Mission Models, sorry. Not much experience with other products. I’ve used Vallejo straight out of bottle and Mr Surfacer thinned 50/50 with Mr Thinner (STINKY STUFF). 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, March 6, 2019 1:13 PM

ZAT

 

 
Mr Ed
I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.
 

 

 

When you say MM, I’m assuming you mean Mission Models??  They have some pretty specific thinning instructions. I think their FAQ specifically states to not thin 50/50. If it’s not Mission Models, sorry. Not much experience with other products. I’ve used Vallejo straight out of bottle and Mr Surfacer thinned 50/50 with Mr Thinner (STINKY STUFF). 

 

Mission Models Paints is MMP. I’m pretty sure he meant Model Master Acryl from Testors which is known to have poor bonding qualities. A while back I had the same thing happen to me using MM primer. I threw the bottle in the trash where it belongs.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, March 6, 2019 2:11 PM

Mr Ed
I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.
 

I use Model Master paints, acrylic as well as enamels. They both bond fine to Badger Stynylrez primer and that primer sticks well to plastic. I have no experience with MM acrylic primer but from what I hear it's not too great. Love the colors though, they go on well with air brush or brushed on. But even craft paints do well applied over Stynylrez .

I've never tried brushing Stynylrez.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Wednesday, March 6, 2019 2:46 PM

I never use acrylic based primer. I prefer enamel based primer from a rattle can.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:16 PM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

I never use acrylic based primer. I prefer enamel based primer from a rattle can.

 

I used to too. Not now.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, March 7, 2019 9:06 AM

To add yet another cook to the too many cooks.....

Model Master primer doesn't work. I'll bet among those of us who use acryls, most have had the same problem as you. I have. Almost ruined my first model back from hiatus with MM "grey primer".

As so many have said above, do yourself a favor and use a real solvent-based primer like Tamiya Surface Primer, or Alclad, Mr Color, etc. Or if you're like me and don't want to use solvent-based, use Stynylrez as called out several times above. It's my new go-to. It is oderless, a pleasure to use, and will not pull up on you.

 

Good luck.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:29 AM

Greg

Almost ruined my first model back from hiatus with MM "grey primer".

Yea that grey stuff  is junk. No issues with solvent type primers. I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:37 AM

Mr Ed
I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.
 

That is the source of your trouble right there. Model Master Acrylic Primer is just a gray acrylic paint, with all of Model Masters Acrylics’ associated characteristics: poor adhesion and durability. Yes they have a fine color selection. But their shelf life sucks (on their site they say 3 to 5 years if stored properly), are usually translucent when handbrushed,  and the aforementioned adhesion and durability are weak. 

Im not a fan of rattle can primers myself due to lack of application control when compared to an airbrush. So I use different primers that can be airbrushed: Humbrol Enamel, Mr Surfacer, Tamiya Liquid Surface Primer (gray and white), and Mig One Shot. All have given me great results. Just be sure to clean your airbrush thoroughly immediately afterwards.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:49 AM

plasticjunkie
I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

After my go-round with MM so-called grey primer, I swore never to use a primer that didn't smell like solvent. And I didn't for 5 yrs.

Then an online FSM friend sent me a bottle of Stynylrez. He told me it was going to be a game-changer, and it is.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:55 AM

stikpusher
That is the source of your trouble right there. Model Master Acrylic Primer is just a gray acrylic paint, with all of Model Masters Acrylics’ associated characteristics: poor adhesion and durability.

See, there you go. When I had my problem with MM "Grey Primer" back in 2013, Stikpusher was the first to jump in and tell me what was going on.

5-6 yrs later and his advice is still sound.

 

-Greg

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:59 AM

Greg

 

 
plasticjunkie
I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

 

After my go-round with MM so-called grey primer, I swore never to use a primer that didn't smell like solvent. And I didn't for 5 yrs.

Then an online FSM friend sent me a bottle of Stynylrez. He told me it was going to be a game-changer, and it is.

 

I bought a bottle on your and Patrick's previous recommendation, Greg. I have yet to test it. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I need to test it. It sounds like the bomb.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, March 7, 2019 11:02 AM

Bakster
I bought a bottle on your and Patrick's previous recommendation, Greg. I have yet to test it. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I need to test it. It sounds like the bomb.

I'm the same way trying new stuff, Steve.

Shhh, don't tell Patrick but my Stynylrez sat for quite a while before I tried it. Oh, and it dries crazy-fast too.

-Greg

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, March 7, 2019 11:11 AM

Greg
Shhh, don't tell Patrick but my Stynylrez sat for quite a while before I tried it. Oh, and it dries crazy-fast too.

Okay. I won't tell Patrick that you sat on it if you don't tell Patrick I am doing the same. Good thing he does not frequent this forum, or we might be in trouble. Tongue Tied

Crazy fast? Now that's just crazy. 

 

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