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Vallejo rubbing off?

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  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Vallejo rubbing off?
Posted by Srpuln10 on Friday, November 15, 2019 12:07 AM

Hey guys. I can't figure out why my paint is rubbing off. I've primed it. Ive done just about everything I know. And yet it'll rub off. Do I nred to clear coat it every time I paint something. Wouldn't that just build up? What's the best primer for that paint. And clear coat. I'm still learning and new at this. Thanks guys. 

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Friday, November 15, 2019 1:21 AM

What are you using for primer?

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    July 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Friday, November 15, 2019 7:27 AM

My only input is I solved issues with paint pull off, easily being scratched, etc. etc. by using a food dehydrator to dry and cure my paint. Not sure if it would fix a rub off problem but if you have a dehydrator or can build a drying box it may help. I can't imagine clear coating everytime I painted something. Good luck with finding the fix.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Friday, November 15, 2019 7:55 AM
Tamiya gray primer.

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:43 AM

How long are you waiting for your paint to dry before handling? It may be surface dry rapidly, but until the paint fully cures it can easily be removed by handling. 

 

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  • From: NEVER USE PHOTO BUCKET - IT'S A THREAD WRECKER.
Posted by disastermaster on Friday, November 15, 2019 9:58 AM

Delicate paint.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL351/12291693/21864322/413446218.jpg  http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/134935.aspx?page=11

  • Member since
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  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, November 15, 2019 10:07 AM

Can you describe what you mean by rubbing off?

Also, Vallejo grey primer should be just fine. Are you thinning the Vallejo? With what? Are you airbrushing or hand brushing? And yes, how long are you waiting to handle it? And yes, I agree, Vallejo can be a bit on the delicate side. I can't think of an instance where I have not clear coated any major surface, so yes to that too.

 

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, November 15, 2019 12:06 PM

As well as letting the paint dry well before handling, Vallejo recommends 24 hour drying of their primer before top coating. Obviously this can be quickened up if you cook it in a dehydrator or heated drying box. I think some of the problems associted with Vallejo paints is that it gives a misconception by feeling dry in minutes. True deep drying takes longer. All the more so if even the primer wasn't really fully dried down to the plastic surface before burying it in color/top coat.

I like Stynylrez primer personally but Vallejo should work.

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, November 15, 2019 5:27 PM

Srpuln10
Tamiya gray primer.
 

 

I use Vallejo over Tamiya gray and white primers routinely. As long as the plastic was clean and free from surface contaminants, the stuff is virtually bullet-proof. Through my own experience, the problem sometimes has a lot to do with how thick I put on the Vallejo paint and what I use to thin it.

First and foremost, make sure the paint is adequately mixed - just shaking the bottle doesn't work sometimes, so be certain to find a comfortable way of ensuring things and mixed up correctly before you use it, whether that involves adding an aggitator like ball bearings or taking off the top of the bottle to mix things by hand.

 

Overly thick coats can dry rubbery and become prone to peeling and flaking. When thinned properly, the stuff flows and covers like ink, then dries to a reasonably strong layer. Too thin and you can literally rub the paint right off, no matter how long the paint has been left to cure.

Hard water can sometimes throw it off and that plays with adhesion problems. Vallejo recommends distilled water as a solution. I've had just as much success using their proprietary thinner or a bit of flow improver, so it's sort of a matter of preference.

Vallejo has stood up under MM lacquers (Dull and Gloss Cote), rattlecans from Walmart, and the Alclad range for me without a problem, but I find that acrylic coats in general (Vallejo in particular) just seem to work better for me 

It seems that the real trick to Vallejo is to play with it and experiment around to find what works for you. 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Friday, November 15, 2019 11:23 PM

Tks. I've just started using Vallejo paint. I've been using tamiya. I'll still use tamiya for my armor and some other things. I like the fact that I can buy paint sets. I'm still learning modeling for about a year now. Vallejo paint set helps me cause it takes the guesswork out of it. I'm not using distilled water. That may be my problem. I'll have to check out the flow improver. How much do you use? Is it just a feel type of thing or is there some measurment to it?  Again tks guys for all the info and help. 

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, November 15, 2019 11:53 PM

There really are no golden ratios, unfortunately. It really is sort of a feel thing because it relies on your technique, the conditions, and what you are trying to accomplish. With this line of paint, it's all about experimenting around until you find what feels right and works well for you in the moment.

With the flow improver, just a little touch is all that's necessary for brushwork. It really helps out doing washes and seems to help with other similar techniques, such as glazes and such, where you are building almost transparent layers of color on top of one another. When used for airbrushing, you may find that an extra drop or two really helps out, because Vallejo can sometimes be pretty fussy about being airbrushes on.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Saturday, November 16, 2019 4:45 AM

Are you brush painting or air brushing ? And are you using Vallejo Model Color paint or Model Air paint ? This matters.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:03 AM

Srpuln10
I'm not using distilled water. That may be my problem.

Not using tap water as opposed to what? What are you thinning with?

And also what OMG said, which Vallejo brand are you using. Model Air? Model Color? Game Color?

And I'd still like to know exactly what you mean by 'rubbing off'.

I have found Vallejo to be no less durable then any other acrylic, and more so than some. You should not be having the problem you describe and we'd like to help.

-Greg

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Saturday, November 16, 2019 6:41 PM

I'm thinning with a little water. When I said rubbing it when I've handled the parts of already painted before. Sometimes it's parts from the night before. I've got my miniature on a stand. I'm trying as little as possible not to handle the guy. It's coming off on the bottom of the pants. I guess it's from my finger tips.  I'm using plain model 

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:08 AM

Thanks, more info helps.

Your reply got cut off, I'm going to assume you are hand brushing Vallejo Model Color and thinning with tap water.

In that case, i think Templar5150's advice is spot on. Make sure paint is well mixed. As suggested already, don't use tap water to thin. I also use distilled water when hand-brushing Model Air. As Templar said, you might be over-thinning. If it is taking more than one coat, you probably are.

But I think your most likely culprit might be handling too soon. Overnight suggests 8 hr dry time. Vallejo dries funny and that's a pretty short time for a brush coat, which tends to be thicker than a spray coat.

Say, is the primer rubbing off too or just the Vallejo?

-Greg

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:37 AM
No primer is staying on. I'm use model color. I think I'm handling it too soon. I'm painting the autumn oak leaf with the ss waffen paint kit. If anyone wants to know the set is absolutely fantastic. The instructions are easy enough to read and understand

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, November 17, 2019 9:15 AM

Srpuln10
No primer is staying on.

Good. Thanks, that helps troubleshoot.

Srpuln10
I think I'm handling it too soon.

It is sure starting to point to that, yes.

-Greg

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Sunday, November 17, 2019 11:03 AM
That's what I'm thinking. I'm a little impatient. I've been trying that new paint set. I've gotten one that's turned out pretty good and I'm just getting in a rush. Like a kid at Christmas time

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, November 17, 2019 1:25 PM

Completely understandable.

Waiting for paint to dry or cure isn't one of my favorite parts of the hobby either.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Sunday, November 17, 2019 3:29 PM

Acrylics are deceiving in that they give an initial dry that happens fast but isn't truly safe to handle yet. Even cooking it in a dehydrator I'll do an hour at 109f then still give it over night at least, if not 24 hours. IMO with straight normal room air drying, I wait two to three days. Model Master acryl I've found to be able to be handled sooner but that's one acrylic that absolutely needs primer under it, not an option imo.... Just sayin.

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Sunday, November 17, 2019 4:18 PM

dry them with a hand held hairdryer

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, November 18, 2019 4:33 AM

modelmaker66

dry them with a hand held hairdryer

 

This works especially well on acrylics to flash dry between coats, real well actually.  I first learned about it watching a fishing lure maker airbrush his "creations", so to speak.

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:25 PM
Thanks guys. I never would have thought of that. I'll try that. I'm about to start back up painting. I think my problem is that I'm not waiting as long as I should. I was the impatient kid at Christmas that got on everyone's nerves wanting to open just one gift.

2 Cor 6:17

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, November 22, 2019 6:20 AM

Srpuln10
Thanks guys. I never would have thought of that. I'll try that. I'm about to start back up painting. I think my problem is that I'm not waiting as long as I should. I was the impatient kid at Christmas that got on everyone's nerves wanting to open just one gift.
 

Many of us can relate to that. Thing is, the paint doesn't care how impatient we are, it does what it does. I use a dehydrator to jump start the drying process.

By the way, itr helps to have a couple of projects going on in like two day intervals apart from one another.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, November 22, 2019 8:49 AM

Enamels are still my goto, but I probably would not continue with them without my drying box!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Monday, November 25, 2019 10:49 AM

The paint process is the longest part of the build. The majority of my paints are Vallejo model air and I use out of the bottle with nothing added. Every bottle has a ball bearing added and gets shaken for a long time very hard and fast before use.

My go to primers are stylnrez and all the kit sprues are washed and degreased, rinsed and air dried and to avoid issues, surgeon/hospital gloves worn during handling and building to avoid grease etc from my hands getting on the surface.

every priming and painting session is followed by a 24 hour plus of no activity to make sure the paint, primer etc cures naturally at its own pace in my hobby room. Sometimes I will just leave it for a week to make sure that everything is 100% dry before continuing with the next colour or maskiing for insignia etc. There is no rush as it is this process that brings the build to life.

The build itself is the short bit, the painting etc is the long bit! I mix and match depending on what I am building and my build plan.

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Alabama
Posted by Srpuln10 on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:10 PM

I've found out that having two going has help. Not just painting but it breaks up the time. I don't get as mad and upset with my build. If I start getting bent out of shape on one i can pull the other out. But i've gotta learn to just hold my horses once I've gotten something painted. I just get in a hurry. I've gotten better at letting it set up. I haven't got a lot of space so I've had to get creative. I'm just started to use vallejo paint. I really do like them for my figure painting. Like I've said I'm still quite new to moldeling so I'm trying to soak up everything I can. I've got a couple of crash test dummies that I try stuff out on. That helps me out a lot. Tks you guys for the info. I really try everything that y'all have told me. Somethings work for me and some don't. Thanks

2 Cor 6:17

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