Badger 105

oldermodelguy

On a second note it may have been at Don Weelers site I saw where on the 105 the needle should be pushed out the front end of the brush for cleaning, so pointed end first out. That way you don't drag crust dry paint through the bearing. Then once clean reinserted from the rear, again pointed end first.. If you use a little bees wax or lip balm on the needle the paint won't stick so much to it and it offers a little lube on the needle bearing. Glycerin will work too. You just wipe on a light film. Add

Thank you sir. I will look into this.

Bakster

Well, here is my report. Mind you, very preliminary. 

I sprayed some Stynlrez. It seemed to spray ok but that has not been the issue. Cleaning the brush went better though. I did have to insert the needle a few times and wipe. So, there was some paint in  the body closer to the needle bearing even after spraying lacquer thinner first. Paint seems to collect there. I waited for the brush to sit for a few hours and tested the needle movement. The good news is that the needle was not locked up with paint as before.

I suspect this brush behaves differently than what I am used to. The needle tension remains rather loose compared to what I am used to. The other extreme of this is my 200. That  needle is tight, very much so. In terms of tension, my 155 is in the middle of the 2. It is looser than the 200, tighter than the 105. I suspect I will need to flush the 105 a little different. It seems a little more difficult to clean than the other two. Again, only one test into it, so very preliminary. But, I tried a challenging paint so... probably good to go.

That is about all I can report at this time.

I like to do my primer spraying with single action personally but that's beside the point. Ihave the original version 200 but also and the one I use most for Stynlrez the Passche H.

On a second note it may have been at Don Weelers site I saw where on the 105 the needle should be pushed out the front end of the brush for cleaning, so pointed end first out. That way you don't drag crust dry paint through the bearing. Then once clean reinserted from the rear, again pointed end first.. If you use a little bees wax or lip balm on the needle the paint won't stick so much to it and it offers a little lube on the needle bearing. Glycerin will work too. You just wipe on a light film.

Well, here is my report. Mind you, very preliminary. 

I sprayed some Stynlrez. It seemed to spray ok but that has not been the issue. Cleaning the brush went better though. I did have to insert the needle a few times and wipe. So, there was some paint in  the body closer to the needle bearing even after spraying lacquer thinner first. Paint seems to collect there. I waited for the brush to sit for a few hours and tested the needle movement. The good news is that the needle was not locked up with paint as before.

I suspect this brush behaves differently than what I am used to. The needle tension remains rather loose compared to what I am used to. The other extreme of this is my 200. That  needle is tight, very much so. In terms of tension, my 155 is in the middle of the 2. It is looser than the 200, tighter than the 105. I suspect I will need to flush the 105 a little different. It seems a little more difficult to clean than the other two. Again, only one test into it, so very preliminary. But, I tried a challenging paint so... probably good to go.

That is about all I can report at this time. 

Bakster

Hey Stik, as a practice I no longer backflush, and I don't recall ever doing it with this brush. I may be wrong, but I tend to think backflushing pushes paint into the body of the brush. I have come to the idea that I don't see a need to do it, so why risk it. 

Ok, just checking. I do not backflush on my 105. All cleaning consists of remving the tip and on the needle that I can extend forward, as well as the paint cup. But I've found that the 105 is extremely simple to clean and keep operating like a champ.

oldermodelguy

I suspect all will be well. We await the confirmation report !

 

Thanks!

H

stikpusher

 

 

Bakster

In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

 

 

Glad to hear that they have come through with their usual style of customer service. Just curious, but did you in the past backflush your 105 when cleaning after a paint session? 

 

Hey Stik, as a practice I no longer backflush, and I don't recall ever doing it with this brush. I may be wrong, but I tend to think backflushing pushes paint into the body of the brush. I have come to the idea that I don't see a need to do it, so why risk it. 

GMorrison

Could be there is something wrong.

I almost never ever ever take my 105 apart. 

Sort of a what goes in comes back out thing.

I suppose I've taken it apart five times in ten years.

As the Ozzie's say, she's "tight as a tick".

Kinda like my old bird dog, run stuff through her and it comes out ok. Never occured to me to take her apart and clean her...

 

Bill

 

I suspect all will be well. We await the confirmation report !

Bakster

In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

Glad to hear that they have come through with their usual style of customer service. Just curious, but did you in the past backflush your 105 when cleaning after a paint session? 

Could be there is something wrong.

I almost never ever ever take my 105 apart. 

Sort of a what goes in comes back out thing.

I suppose I've taken it apart five times in ten years.

As the Ozzie's say, she's "tight as a tick".

Kinda like my old bird dog, run stuff through her and it comes out ok. Never occured to me to take her apart and clean her...

Bill

goldhammer88

At least they came through for you.  Here's hoping that it runs properly, and it's all behind you.

 

Agreed. Thanks. Fingers crossed. 

At least they came through for you.  Here's hoping that it runs properly, and it's all behind you.

Closing the loop some.

With a little arm twist Badger agreed that no fee should be sent for repair. In light of that concession I will give the CSR benefit of the doubt that they might have missed my waranty concern, though, they did not say that.

I recieved the repaired brush today and the packer states that they cleaned and replaced the tip, needle, regulator plunger and O ring needle bearing. 

It sounds like a thorough job and the brush was back in my hands in about 10 days from my shipping it.

Badgers concession, depth of repair, and their quick turn improves my opinion of them, into the realm of how others feel about them, but the final factor will be in how the brush operates. If I continue to get paint deep into the body, then maybe this will turn into a different discussion. 

In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

Fyi.

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Actually, that seems a little short sighted to me. I have very good reasons for emailing them: 

1. In business transactions it is always best to have a paper trail. Verbal communication can give you all kinds of promises, but when the rubber meets the road, "Oh, I never said that!" Or "oh, sorry, I forgot." I have been there. I deal with customers and vendors EVERY DAY and if you don't get it writing--it gets used against you and/or it quickly gets forgotten about. Email is a form of contract, and it also serves as an in your face reminder to follow through. But the worst part is, in verbal communication, people often tell you what you want to hear just to get you off the phone. Cynical? Heck yes, but THAT IS REALITY.

2. By using email I was able to attach a copy of the invoice showing my January purchase date. That is just me being efficient and it sets the standard for warranty expectations. Most CSRs would appreciate that information. As a sales rep I know that I would. With what I provided, including a detailed explanation of the problem, it cuts to the quick and allows the CSR to disemiminate the information quickly within the company. I was doing them a favor. That is how it rolls at my place of employment. If Badger is loosey goosey--which I am beginning to think they are, then maybe it won't mean a hill of beans.

3. I won't even get into the details of my time constraints. If I waited for a good time to call them, which might include voice messages and call backs-- it won't get done. I have far too much on my plate.

Regarding their responce. Though it was polite and it directed me in how to solve the problem, it completley ignored the bigger issue. That being, I suspect the brush was defective right out of the box.

Here is the problem. The link that the CSR directed me to details that I need to send $19 for return shipment. So--not only that I have to pay for shipping to them, but then I have to pay $19 to get it back. 

Is that good customer service? Not in my book! Not when I detailed that the brush had the noted problems at the get go. A good customer service model would be that they send a prepaid shipping label, and that they have no expectation of a return freight fee. THAT-- is good customer service, and THAT is standing behind their product. And by the way-- the brush is still in warranty. Yet, I have to pay for these things. I'd even compromise. If they'd find there is nothing wrong with the brush--OK--I'll pay for the return shipment.

And should this lack of service get escalated by me--guess what--I have their actions IN WRITING.

This is why I email.

Yup.  I see that a lot even in my own company.  I'll be waiting for a flight manual supplement to be delivered from one of the aircraft manufacturers so I can complete the necessary airworthiness paperwork for a service bulletin, and it doesn't show up.  I call our purchasing staff and ask about it, and I get the answer of "Well...we e-mailed them, but they never got back to us."  So, I hang up and pick up the phone again to call the manufacturer, give them our purchase order number, and have my AFMS the next day.  

Then, there are the really difficult conversations with customers about things that I found on their aircraft that need to be addressed due to safety of flight...those are always best handled face-to-face.  Its a little like a doctor having to give bad news to a patient or their family.  The personal touch is the best way.

It's not only Badger but just about any business/Company is using the impersonal and ice cold methods of email or auto recordings to do the work of human interaction. Reminds me of a line in the 1967 song In The Year 2525. "Some machine doing that for you".

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Amen to that.  Although e-mails are usually a good means of communication, texting is a way for unproductive people to feel productive.  Texters can spend 3 or 4 hours texting back and forth to accomplish what could have been resolved with a 30 second telephone conversation.  I know this...I've tried both ways.  

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

Received a responce today, I was linked to their website. Apparently, there are instructions there. And that's that.

Bakster

 

 

plasticjunkie

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

 

 

 

 

Ok thanks PJ. I will give it a few more days. Worst case I will call.

 

For all we know, the email may have never reached the correct person or it may have gotten lost in the shuffle, etc. I would give them a call tomorrow and the lady will transfer you to the repair tech. I think he gets in at 9am central time.

Bakster

And speaking of customer service-- what would you consider an acceptable time for a responce from Badger?  I realize it can take time to filter through emails, I deal with the problem at work and with my customers. I wrote Badger via their cs email and I have heard nothing back.

I give people a long rope, and I am nowhere near to having reached the end but--I'd like to know what you think. I have heard it here many times that their service is great. The reason I ask is that based on past experience--it will be days before I get a responce. I had one email go over a month before they responded and by then I moved on. Maybe bad luck on my part but I'd like to know from you guys what I should expect.

Thoughts?  

 

I'd give them a week or so.  I've left voicemails requesting information on mining claims from bureau of land management for over a year with no response.... No one working from the office to pull it out and send it.

They might be running on short staffing still.

plasticjunkie

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

 

Ok thanks PJ. I will give it a few more days. Worst case I will call.

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

And speaking of customer service-- what would you consider an acceptable time for a responce from Badger?  I realize it can take time to filter through emails, I deal with the problem at work and with my customers. I wrote Badger via their cs email and I have heard nothing back.

I give people a long rope, and I am nowhere near to having reached the end but--I'd like to know what you think. I have heard it here many times that their service is great. The reason I ask is that based on past experience--it will be days before I get a responce. I had one email go over a month before they responded and by then I moved on. Maybe bad luck on my part but I'd like to know from you guys what I should expect.

Thoughts?  

Hey thanks PJ. Fingers crossed.

Wait and see what Badger says but I can  tell you from experience they have great customer  support. A while back I had an issue with my Renegade that turned out to be an interior crack in the body and Badger sent me a new replacement airbrush.

Bakster

 

 

patrick206

Shine a tiny light into the gravity cup, then look straight back into the receptical area that holds the bearing. If you can't see a tiny, round, white object with a center hole, you're missing the bearing.

 

 

Howdy, Patrick... thanks for responding as well.

Yesterday, I did exactly that and at first I was mystified. I could see what appeared to be the bearing, but it was brass. All the documention I looked at indicated it should be teflon. I sat there scratching my head wondering if the documention is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time where a manufacter made a change and they didn't update the literature. Then it hit me. Earlier in the day I had sprayed Alclad brass and that must have coated the end of bearing! Wow. That threw me for a loop! 

Here is the strange thing. I tested the feel of the needle and I am not getting the slop that I first wrote about. There is a drag there now. Remember how I said the needle was stuck in the brush with paint? I am wondering if maybe when it broke free the bearing realigned. Sounds like coocoo talk but I don't know how else to explain this. 

Long story short, let me work with this more. If I continue to have problems I will surely PM you!

Thanks again!

 

Ok. I am convinced there is something wrong with the brush. I sprayed tonight and paint got all the way back to the needle chuck. Spent at least thirty minutes tearing it down and trying to clean the brush. This is a new brush and I had issues along this line right out of the box. Not happy.

I sent Badger an email tonight to see what they will do for me. If this becomes the norm with this brush I am going back to my siphon feed 155. That one is reliable, easy to clean, and paint doesn't go past the needle bearing. This 105 is my first gravity feed and I am pretty disappointed.

Btw. One other thing I don't like about the 105. The spring clip that goes behind the trigger is a bear to reinstall. When I pull the needle for cleaning, the clip invariably falls out of place. I have a heck of a time getting it repositioned correctly. It sticks. Minor issue, but irritating none the less.

I will let you know how this comes out.

patrick206

Shine a tiny light into the gravity cup, then look straight back into the receptical area that holds the bearing. If you can't see a tiny, round, white object with a center hole, you're missing the bearing.

Howdy, Patrick... thanks for responding as well.

Yesterday, I did exactly that and at first I was mystified. I could see what appeared to be the bearing, but it was brass. All the documention I looked at indicated it should be teflon. I sat there scratching my head wondering if the documention is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time where a manufacter made a change and they didn't update the literature. Then it hit me. Earlier in the day I had sprayed Alclad brass and that must have coated the end of bearing! Wow. That threw me for a loop! 

Here is the strange thing. I tested the feel of the needle and I am not getting the slop that I first wrote about. There is a drag there now. Remember how I said the needle was stuck in the brush with paint? I am wondering if maybe when it broke free the bearing realigned. Sounds like coocoo talk but I don't know how else to explain this. 

Long story short, let me work with this more. If I continue to have problems I will surely PM you!

Thanks again!