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Question about enamel thinner...

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  • Member since
    June 2007
Question about enamel thinner...
Posted by Porkbits on Friday, July 11, 2008 4:00 PM
Hey, guys:

I promise I wont write that this is a "dumb" question. It's just a...question. :-)

I usually purchase thinner for my enamel paints from LHS, or online, which can be a pain (LHS usually doesn't have thinner in stock, online takes too long). Is it possible to just go to my local hardware or paint store and buy enamel thinner? If so, what type should I buy? I know there are dozens of thinners, strippers, degreasers, etc. for commercial and industrial use, so I want to make sure at the very least, I don't melt the kit with something meant for chemical spill cleanup, or at worst, turn my garage into a Superfund site.

If this is a bad idea, and I should stick with LHS or online stores for model-paint-specific thinners, lemmeno.

Thanks!

PB
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, July 11, 2008 5:25 PM

Mineral spirits, preferably "odorless," is essentially a universal thinner for enamels. Things labeled "paint thinner" may be (usually are) mineral spirits, or they may be proprietary mixtures of mineral spirits and other solvents. Some of those other solvents may attack styrene. Also, "paint thinner" may be a less refined type of mineral spirits, and some of the extraneous material they contain may not play well with model paints. So stick with pure mineral spriits. 

Note that mineral spirits will thin lacquers as well, but may significantly delay drying of some lacquers. For lacquers, is is generally best to use whaterver thinner the manufacturer recommends. 

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, July 11, 2008 5:39 PM
I have a big gallon can of genereic hardware store variety "paint thinner" that I use for cleaning brushes. I also have a can of Testors MM Airbrush thinner, that I use just for thinning paints for airbrushing. Considering how few enamel brands are left out there ( I use Testors MM, Testors, Humbrol, Xtracolor, and have some old Pactras)for making models this method works just fine. I have never had any problems with my standard paint thinner in cleaning or using it in washes.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, July 11, 2008 6:48 PM
The problem with "paint thinner" is, as I stated, that YMMV. "Paint thinner" is not generally required to have a specific composition. Mineral spirits is. One can of paint thinner may be fine for all purposes, another, even of the same brand but a later time, may not.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, July 11, 2008 9:57 PM
Good to learn! I think my next gallon can when this one is gone will be mineral spirits. Probalby last me as long as this one or longer.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:01 PM

Ross, what's your thoughts on using lacquer thinner vs mineral spirits as a thinner and / or cleaner?

 

E

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:27 PM

Don't use laquer thinner with anything but laquer. Ever...  Enamels and laquers don't mix.  Enamel thinners are properly called enamel reducer. Laquer thinner won't take enamel off your brush, and won't clean it from an airbrush.  If you pour it into enamel, it will curdle like sour milk.  Mineral spirits are great for general clean-up, but when it comes to thinning enamel paints for application, use enamel reducer, which works ok for oils as well...  Get automotive-quality reducers at an auto parts store.   While I'm at it, I use denatured (rubbing) alcohol for acrylics when I'm painting with them.  Water's ok for clean-up, but I thin acryllic paint with alcohol...

 

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: San Tan Valley,AZ
Posted by smokinguns3 on Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:12 PM
 Hans von Hammer wrote:

Don't use laquer thinner with anything but laquer. Ever...  Enamels and laquers don't mix.  Enamel thinners are properly called enamel reducer. Laquer thinner won't take enamel off your brush, and won't clean it from an airbrush.  If you pour it into enamel, it will curdle like sour milk.  Mineral spirits are great for general clean-up, but when it comes to thinning enamel paints for application, use enamel reducer, which works ok for oils as well...  Get automotive-quality reducers at an auto parts store.   While I'm at it, I use denatured (rubbing) alcohol for acrylics when I'm painting with them.  Water's ok for clean-up, but I thin acryllic paint with alcohol...

 

 

I beg to differ ive used nothing but laqurer thinner for over 20years withh my enamels and  never had a issue.

Rob I think i can I think i can
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:17 PM
 H3nav wrote:

Ross, what's your thoughts on using lacquer thinner vs mineral spirits as a thinner and / or cleaner?

E

"Lacquer thinner" like "paint thinner" has no specific composition, and its composition varies far more widely than paint thinner. Some lacquer thinners work fine as reducers or cleaners for enamels, and some turn them to rubbery goo. YMMV.

There are also lacquers that have mineral spirits as one of their major solvents, but they are relatively uncommon. Mineral spirits is compatible with many lacquers, but its slow evaporation rate makes it an unusual choice.

Lacquers tend to be specialized coatings because they have very different properties than enamels: primarily that they form a coating by drying, whereas enamels form coatings by curing. Automotive lacquers are often highly specialized; many things called lacquers are actually combinations of enamel and lacquer, and form coatings both by drying and by curing.

Rule of thumb No. 1: When using a lacquer, use the manufacturer's recommended solvent(s) for reducing and or cleaning.

Rule of thumb No. 2: Mineral spirits is the nearly universal solvent for enamels. It can be used for both reduction and cleaning.


The term "reducer" is used for a solvent used, generally in substantial amount, to reduce the paint viscosity for spray application. The term "thinner" is used for a solvent used in small amounts to adjust the viscosity of a paint for production specifications, brush or dynamic application. Whether you call the solvent a reducer or a thinner depends on the use. Unfortunately, both within and outside of the paint industry, the terms are often used interchangeably.

 

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:50 PM

Thanks Ross. I think that I will switch to a good quality can of mineral spirits instead of lacquer thinner and try that for a while.  I'm trying to cut back on the fumes and all.  And yes, I do have ventilation and a respirator.

 

E

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Southern California, USA
Posted by ABARNE on Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:38 PM

 Porkbits wrote:
Is it possible to just go to my local hardware or paint store and buy enamel thinner? If so, what type should I buy? ....

If this is a bad idea, and I should stick with LHS or online stores for model-paint-specific thinners, lemmeno.

I use Klean-Strip brand Paint Thinner.  Mindfull of Ross's comments about formulations, in smaller text above the word "Paint Thinner", it specifies that it is "100% Mineral Spirits".  The stuff cost only a couple of bucks for a 1 quart can.  I've never had any problems or incompatibilities with it.  Recently, I bought a bottle of ModelMaster airbrush thinner, just as an experiment to see whether the paint manufacture's recommended thinner would yield any sort of improvement.  It has not;  There is not one thing, other than the price, that I can point to as a being any sort of identifiable difference between the cheap hardware store spirits and the much more expensive ModelMaster thinner. 

I also use Klean Strip Lacquer Thinner, not for use thinning enamel paint, but for those cleaning occasions when some paint has dried and the mineral spirits is just not working well removing it.

Andy

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:47 PM

As far as cleaning dried, cured paint:

Use whatever works! Some lacquer thinners contain a blend of solvents. One or more of these usually attacks any lacquer or enamel coating, making them a good choice for this type of cleaning. Mineral spirits, although a nearly universal solvent, is also a relatively mild solvent for fully cured enamels and lacquers.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Sunday, July 13, 2008 5:50 PM

 

I love this stuff...............! The chemical discussion, I mean!

 

Doesn't mix with tonic though!Laugh [(-D]

  • Member since
    June 2007
Posted by Porkbits on Sunday, July 13, 2008 6:15 PM
Wow, I didn't expect this many answers!

So mineral spirits gets the nod. Thanks so much.

PB
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:29 PM
 namrednef wrote:

 

I love this stuff...............! The chemical discussion, I mean!

 

Doesn't mix with tonic though!Laugh [(-D]

Nam,

Just sprayed my gimlet all over the monitor…

Mischief [:-,]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

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