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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, March 1, 2015 11:40 AM

Good point, Don. I have Photoshop Elements (the cheaper version of Photoshop), which I picked up at Best Buy for about $85.00 as I remember. It's a wonderful program - quite simple to use and intuitive. The Nikon camera will have come with its own editing software, but everybody I know prefers Photoshop or Photoshop Elements.

I never liked traditional darkroom much (probably because I never got enough experience to be good at it). Photoshop Elements has made photography a much more enjoyable experience for me. That program can make your pictures a whole lot better - and it's just plain FUN.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:29 PM

If everyone will check John's model photos he just posted with his new Nikon they illustrate one point I mentioned in my post yesterday.

While they are good shots of an excellent model, the white balance setting needs to be improved.

John it looks like you shot the photos under incandescent lights.  The auto white balance from your Nikon corrected some but not all of the color shift that occurs with incandescent lights.  The photos still have a brownish-cast to them which I imagine doesn't quite show the model's camo colors exactly right.

I imagine, as Don suggested, the photo editing software you received with the camera can fix it simply enough.

Without getting too technical, all light sources illuminate at different color temperatures.  That's a fancy way of saying that light sources add a cast to the color of a photo.  Our brains adjust for the color changes so we normally don't notice them, but cameras don't have brains (not yet anyway) so they "see" the color cast.  Photographers have to "train" their brains not to compensate for the color shift so they know how to correct for it.

Since human brains are wired to see mostly under daylight conditions, cameras are set-up to render colors most correctly under "daylight" conditions.  Daylight casts a very blueish light that cameras, like human brains, see as "normal."  When daylight isn't the photo's primary light source, the camera's white balance must be adjusted to compensate for the different color cast.  This can be changed in the camera for the original image capture, or in photo editing software with something that adjusts or changes the color cast.

In the old film days this was quite a problem and required color correcting filters screwed onto the lens barrel or using a film balanced for the different light sources.  Anybody remember seeing "DAYLIGHT OR BLUE FLASH" marked on film boxes when you were younger?  That's why Prof Tilley mentioned blue photo flood bulbs.  All these methods were required to get that blueish daylight colorcast on the film when you weren't shooting in daylight.

Does anyone remember super 8 movie film when you had to buy "outdoor" or "indoor" film.  The old indoor film was formatted to shoot under those hot, bright lights that were used when filming inside.  That film was set to compensate for the reddish-brown light cast of incandescent bulbs.

So with a daylight set-up photos shot under incandescent light will look like John's photos taken with his new camera.

If you care to see how blue daylight is, set your camera for an incandescent white balance and take a shot or two outside in sunlight.  Or try a shot lit with sunlight through a window.  The photos will definitely look too blue.

Does all this matter?  Most of the time, nobody will notice.  But if showing you used the correct paint colors on your model matters, it can.

Digital photography made this simpler, but it is still there.

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, March 1, 2015 12:53 PM

There's a function on my Pentax DSLR that lets you take a picture, then look at it on the monitor and push a menu button to see what it would have looked like if any of the other white balance options had been selected. Then you can shoot the picture again.

That comes in particularly handy when shooting in complex lighting situations like museum galleries (where there also may be a rule against using flash). The little Nikon P-520 may have a similar function buried in the menus somewhere, but if so I haven't found it yet. (It does, however, allow manual adjustment of the white balance settings. It also has a "Museum" mode, in which it automatically takes nine exposures when you push the shutter button, and picks the one that's sharpest. Amazing.)

The most challenging lighting situation I've encountered is the wonderful gallery of seventeenth- and eighteenth-century models at the Naval Academy Museum, in Annapolis. Several kinds of light are shining on those models at the same time, you can't use flash, and there's the additional problem of reflections on glass cases. The best solution is to let the pros take the models out of their cases and shoot them under controlled lighting. I wasn't able to get satisfactory results.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2015
Posted by Bick on Monday, March 2, 2015 8:56 AM

Pilotjohn,

Important things first! WOW, what a gorgeous build. I don't build armor but your build makes me think I should try - just a great job. And, as to photography as Mike said, your camera didn't fully correct for white balance (did you have your D3300 set for autoWB?). Unfortunately, ViewNX2 software which comes with your Nikon only allows WB correction with RAW files and not JPEG IIRC (I don't use ViewNX2). If you have a Mac, Preview allows WB correction and you can do it in about 5 seconds (Windows must have something similar). I DL'ed one of your pics and just did it on my Mac. I can post a before and after if it would be of use. But, back to important things, I am impressed with the model - great build!!!

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Pennsylvania
Posted by pilotjohn on Monday, March 2, 2015 10:41 AM

Bick;

Thanks for the kind words.  I have been using this guy as a test dummy for some weathering that I am doing all with Acrylics.  I have rust and some grime effects to go and then the light mud for the underside and the running gear.  But that is for another thread as we are on photography on this one.  I would love to see the before and after.  The lights I am using are LED.  I understand what you are all saying about the white balance, but I honestly don't know about my setting.  I am doing point-and-shoot mode with everything but the lens on auto.  I will have to check tonight and try a couple.  I did notice that on some of the shots (which I didn't post) that the camo rot braun came out with a rose colored tint to it.

I have not downloaded the NX2 software and I don't own any of the Photoshop tools as that will be next.  I really appreciate all the discussion about the settings and the "physics" behind it all.  Kind of like a free class in how to:)

John

  • Member since
    February 2015
Posted by Bick on Monday, March 2, 2015 3:09 PM

John,

Hope this works using Flickr - I use Photobucket but haven't been able to log on there. The only change I made was to adjust color temperature using Preview on my Mac.  The change is quite obvious in the white and blue on upper left. Hope it's useful

 pilotjohnorig by Bick6, on Flickr

 pilotjohn by Bick6, on Flickr

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Pennsylvania
Posted by pilotjohn on Monday, March 2, 2015 3:25 PM

Thanks!  The change is very easy to see.  I will try to check on that setting and take some more.  I appreciate your work to help on this one.  That blue is spot on.

John

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Pennsylvania
Posted by pilotjohn on Monday, March 2, 2015 7:46 PM

OK, learned a little more tonight.  I went to auto mode to record what the settings were and confirmed that the WB was auto.  Then I went to Manual mode and set the values to 1/125 and 400.  Set the image size to medium and the WB to incandescent.  Here are some samples.  Much better I think.

The more I learn, the more I don't know:)

John

  • Member since
    February 2015
Posted by Bick on Wednesday, March 4, 2015 5:27 PM

Lookin good John. Next thing you know you'll be using 'raw' and putting all of us to shame. One thing nice about 'digital' is you can take lots of pics without wasting film - I know, I've wasted my share.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Pennsylvania
Posted by pilotjohn on Wednesday, March 4, 2015 6:57 PM

If only I knew what raw means:)  I have some more to post tonight.  Finally just about finished with the kit.

John

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Pennsylvania
Posted by pilotjohn on Wednesday, March 4, 2015 7:29 PM

Here are some as I am just about done.  Got a couple little things to touch up.  Add white to the side posts, add silver and gloss to the mirror and then dull coat it all together.

  • Member since
    February 2015
Posted by Bick on Thursday, March 5, 2015 4:43 PM

I like the mud/dirt and detailing - I'm really impressed. BTW, RAW means the photo is just what the camera's sensor records with no in camera processing. Has some advantages for post processing.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Saturday, April 18, 2015 9:17 AM

What a great thread. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts here.

I run a Canon SX510HS with a 30X zoom and 12mp sensor. It does fairly well shooting models as well as scenery. I do agree with Don Stauffer about electronic viewfinders. There is no substitute for the human eye. I compromised when I bought this camera because I wanted the zoom capability for airshows, and I felt the EVF would be a minor annoyance. Amazing how minor can become major after so long.

Turns out, Canon now has a camera with a 60X zoom and 16mp sensor. If I remember correctly it had an optical viewfinder too. Maybe for Christmas!

We should make a sticky 'Shutterbug' subforum where we can post random pics and critique them for each other. I thought that'd be cool.

Chris

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, April 18, 2015 9:37 AM

A suggestion for taking model photos where the light is not perfect.  Try flash!  I am amazed at how close one can get and still have automatic flash work.  The bandwidth on the in-camera circuitry must be awesome- it must turn off the flash really fast. I cannot use it with my photo backdrop shots because the shadows are not consistant with the background, but for most shots, like my WIP shots, I now use flash!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, April 18, 2015 4:22 PM

Don's right. I keep my little Nikon P-520 by my bench for in-progress  shots too. I've discovered that in many cases that amazing built-in flash improves the pictures. On the other hand, the camera (with its auto-stabilizer and high available ISOs), also does remarkably well in surprisingly low light without the flash.

I see Canon now has a "superzoom" with a 65X lens! I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth having a DSLR any more.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by Scarecrow Joe on Saturday, April 18, 2015 4:59 PM

Interesting discussion.

Ive been an amateur photographer for quite a few years now.  Started with a Canon XS, moved to a Canon T2i, then a Canon 7D and now went full frame with a Canon 6D.  To me a DSLR is more than enough for model photography, maybe a bit overkill but with it you can gain access to fully control every aspect to control and manipulate light which is what photography is all about.

The vast amount of lenses is another advantage of a DSLR.  If you are thinking of exploring other areas in photography getting a DSLR will be the best choice. The depth of field is really important with macro shooting a model.  If you can get a very high f/stop (20 or more) you can obtain a more realistic image where everything is in focus or, mostly in focus.  You would need also a good tripod since at high f/stop less light is coming into the camera and a larger exposure time is needed.  In this aspect the Canon 6D is great since it has a clear image with little noise at higher ISO's.

Im thinking of getting a new Canon 7DII.....its a very expensive hobby but is as addictive as model making.

My FLICKR page is : https://www.flickr.com/photos/chaman_photography/page1/

  • Member since
    February 2015
Posted by Bick on Sunday, April 19, 2015 7:23 AM

Hi  Scarecrow Joe,

Just had a look at your Flickr page - some really nice photos there. I recently went full frame too with a Nikon D610 which I use more for nature stuff than models. I have some Egret photos that are quite similar to some of the ones on your page - no lizards, iguanas (???) though. Nice work.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, April 19, 2015 11:14 AM

I agree with Scarecrow Joe- the control of depth of field in model photography is very important, and an SLR is the best type of camera for controlling depth of field.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:55 PM

If we're talking about formal portraits of finished models, I certainly agree. But WIP shots are another matter.

One fundamental characteristic of the super zoom lens seems to be that its depth of field is (a) enormous and (b) virtually uncontrollable. Take a shot of your in-progress model with a super zoom and a flash, and the whole frame probably will be in focus. And that's probably what you want for such a shot. But if you want part of the picture to be blurry - break out the SLR. Especially if you intend to make big prints.

I'm not getting rid of my dear old Pentax DSLR anytime soon. But I'll be most interested to see what the next generation of super zooms looks like.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by Scarecrow Joe on Sunday, April 19, 2015 2:57 PM

Al most all my WIP shots are done with my cell phone camera, its easy and handy.  Some can be done to be "stylish" and look good especially just taking a moment tp work in the composition.  Thats another aspect sometimes onerlooked when taking model shots.  

WIP with some basic decent composition:

20150418_231858 by nenekinkin, on Flickr

A more elaborate shot using daylight (my favorite) and some adequate natural setting (also my favorite).  I love the forced perspective approach for model shooting.  Studio type pics are good with artificial light but they are too dull, forced and do not show well the realism of the model itself.

IMG_5505 by nenekinkin, on Flickr
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, April 20, 2015 9:01 AM

Yep, I agree with jtilley on the WIP shots, but since I already have the DSLR it is what I use for those too. I do, however, just use auto exposure and flash for those, rather than all the rigamorole I go through for the finished shots.  I still do prefer manual focus even for the WIP, however.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Friday, April 24, 2015 3:40 PM

Hi ;

   Well , You've gotten a lot of information . Me , now , I use a CANON - A-620 Powershot .7.1 megapixel .I wanted to buy a camera with more umph ! BUT , More of those megapixels meant giving up the greatest feature of this camera , Thing is this feature is why I even bought this one . .

   It has a view - screen that will swivel to the front , back , side and completely upside down . Question , this is for the ship modelers especially . How many of you can sit your camera on the table and adjust it with Sheets of cardboard or a matchbook and get a shot of say the  1/350 North Carolina as if you were in a whaleboat on final approach ?

    I can . Now with model cars I get great shots of say Ferrari coupes where the picture , with all those curves and shadows are indeed , Sexy ? I can do it . I even got a gorgeous shot of the dash in my " Maliblu " street custom .( the name of a model , of a real car I once owned ) . Can you say , " read the instruments " ?

    I believe it's up to the buyer and how much he or she wants to put up with in getting that perfect shot . I had a beautiful YASHICA once . 9 lenses and tripod , lights and all that . Bought it from a retiring Photographer for the Arkansas Democrat newspaper .

    I wanted shots of Challenger to take back to my " Teachers in Space "  folks in Arkansas for their programs . Of course we all know what happened that day .The sonic boom destroyed every lens I had .

   I have kept cameras under 300 bucks now and don't regret it for a minute .

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by Scarecrow Joe on Saturday, April 25, 2015 10:11 PM

You got a point regarding a low MP camera.  If you check out the work b Michael Paul Smith (Flickr) he stuck with a similar camera as yours because when he tried a higher MP camera, saw so many details and flaws that were not caught by the lower MP camera and that kind of broke the illusion of realism he is looking for.  He also don't use any photoshop manipulation, his shots are straight from the camera.

The camera is a tool and it will as good as the eye behind it.

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Yorkville, IL
Posted by wolfhammer1 on Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:33 PM

First, thank you all for a great discussion about cameras.  It helped me choose to buy a DSLR, a Nikon D5300, which I am really enjoying.

John

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Thursday, May 14, 2015 2:13 PM

I received the D5300 for Christmas and I to am really enjoying it.  It is a big improvement over the IPAD pictures I been taking.  I still need to build that light box.

  • Member since
    December 2013
Posted by CodyJ on Monday, May 25, 2015 5:04 PM

I tend to stick with Canon.  The light sensors handle lighting much better in my opinion.  However beware of the T6i which just came out.  They had to recall it for an issue.  I have had 2 Rebels and a 60D and loved them.  

I am in between cameras and just shooting with a Fuji which has excellent Macro.  It will work for now.

These are all with the Canon XS & 60D...

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Yorkville, IL
Posted by wolfhammer1 on Thursday, July 9, 2015 9:26 PM

 

Picture I took at the Rockford Airfest back in June   Edited with Microsoft Live Photo Gallery

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