Preshade/Postshade Panel lines, How do you fellas do it?

Chris,
Semper Fi, indeed.  The hat's always off to the USMC........
I actually prefer to post shade........and I do that by washing the panel lines, squirting very slightly lightened color coat into the middle of the panels, and squirting  very slightly darkened color coat along the lines.  It ends up far less "stark" that way - like that incredible Hercules on the cover of FSM a while back - that thing was a masterpiece of craftsmanship - but the stark pre-shading ruined an otherwise stunning model.
Remember, there's a fine line between "lookin good" and "argh....that's crap!"
I always try to live by the motto...."Sometimes, less is more".

Chris, Preshading/Postshading is a hit and miss situation. Most of us start with applying light coats with airbrush letting each coat dry between sprayings until you get the color depth you looking for.  I've never postshaded a model but there is someone here that did and posted his results and it looked pretty good to me.

I'm planning to try preshading again and will use a sharpie pen. Now, I have heard if you do preshading this way to let the ink dry a few days before applying base colors. Airbrush several light coats of base colors til you get the result you want.

Air Master

Thanks for the insight guys.   It gives me a few things to think about on my Hellcat with a tri-color sceme.  

Thanks,

Chris

Using a sharpie can result in paint compatibility issues and I would not recommend it. I preshade with a dark gray or dark brown usually and also post shade with lightened base colors followed by panel line sludge washing. It seems to work for me but everyone is different.

here are some of my results:

Another method that you might experiment with is using chalks. I used that on my Me-262, and I thought it turned out pretty well.

Try several things- different techniques work better for different people.

BTW Swanny- I love that P-40!

In addition to chalks, pencil graphite (lead) works well also.  It is a great way to post shade panels.  I use a Q-tip with most of the end ripped off to apply the graphite powder (created by rubbing a pencil on sandpaper) lightly to the panel lines.  It's very easy to control, very easy to clean up mistakes using an eraser, and gives a much subtler effect than chalks.

I tried it on my P-47.  You be the judge.

Thanks Swanny for talking me out of using a Sharpie pen. :-)

Now on to my question. I have a Plaid acrylic paints set and I am wondering if using them for shading will work? Any one ever tried them?

Air Master

I've been watching this whole issue of panel lines for some time and I'm coming to the conclusion that it's more of a current fad than a real consideration.  I was recently "up close and personal" with an F4 and at distances of about 20-30 feet the panel lines were virtually indistinguishable, so how visible would they be at scale distances?

<>I can see the value on car models, whose panel gaps are comparatively wide, but I'm not convinced it's "realistic" for aircraft.

Michael 

MJH wrote:

I've been watching this whole issue of panel lines for some time and I'm coming to the conclusion that it's more of a current fad than a real consideration.  I was recently "up close and personal" with an F4 and at distances of about 20-30 feet the panel lines were virtually indistinguishable, so how visible would they be at scale distances? <>I can see the value on car models, whose panel gaps are comparatively wide, but I'm not convinced it's "realistic" for aircraft.   Michael

Micheal makes a very good point here and I have to agree with him. Every photo or real plane at airshows I've seen or been to you can hardly see if there are panel lines and what shows up when your close to the a/c you wont see at a distance.

Good point Mike!

Air Master

From what I've learned from other models and some experimenting myself, while both can give the same effect and both can be overdone, pre-shading is a time saver. Spraying the lines with an air brush before the top coat is qucker than applying substance to the lines by hand afterwards.

Also there's the benefit of post-shading of being able to shade/weather the decals along with the top coat.

To MJH's point, it also depends on the condition of the subject you want to model. A well worn war bird ist apt to have more soot and grime accumulated after multiple combat missions as oppsed to a museum piece or warshow bird.

And I agree with the idea 'less is more'.

I think we’ve seen pre-shading so much now from articles, shows and internet images, it’s readily identifiable now. Even great pre-shading can look like something that’s part of the finish as opposed to something that happened to it like getting dirty from exposure. Sometimes I’ve seen great pre-shading at a show but the model looked a bit too glossy. If it’s supposed to be ‘dirty’ it should have no shine to it

Lucien’s (Mike’s) post-shaded P-47 has a natural soiled look where it looks like a good wash could clean it up again. Or you could write ‘Wash Me’ on it with your finger.

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the useful input on this subject.  I moved ahead with painting the 3 tone Hellcat.  Preshading worked very well on the underside of the aircraft.  I preshaded with black, then applied the base white.  (The Model was Primed with Grey Tamiya Primer).  The Intermediate Blue (Tamiya Medium Blue) mid-tone color worked didn't take the preshade as well, but I'm happy with the results.  I'm thinking that the Sea Blue will not show the preshade very well.  If that is the case, some post shading may be in order. 

If I'm not happy with the results of Pre-shading, I'll lighten some paint and try some Post shading. 

Thanks for the input guys,

Semper Fi,

Chris 

I appreciate all the points made but I'm still not convinced at the way the effect is applied overall, and I refer particularly to the light blue aircraft (Hellcat?) in Swanny's post above - it just doesn't look right to me.  Yes, I can appreciate that an aircraft in action would accumulate a layer of grime from engine exhaust, gun propellant deposits etc, but these would affect only those panels in the immediate vicinity, or at least directly behind the exhausts/guns.  To me, extending the effect over the entire airframe just doesn't look 'right'. 

<>Photos I've seen of grubby aircraft have tended to show the whole surface covered in grime, not just in and around the panel joints.

<>I'm not criticising Swanny's (or anyone else's) expertise, hell, I couldn't do it better if I wanted to reproduce the effect, but this is a highly subjective area and I haven't seen photographic evidence, nor have I seen the effect on actual aircraft, to support it. 

The appearance of panel lines depends greatly on the amount of use the aircraft has seen, where it's being operated, what colors it's painted. On A front line inservice aircraft  the panel lines are well seen.  This is due to dirt being kick up by other aircraft, people walking on, open/closing inspection covers, and such. I included few new pic I took of aircraft wear. Panels that are removed or walked on often will be more visable then others.

I do not pre shade but do post shade. Some hints I can give you are, smaller the scale the less you need to make it look right. Start off light and work up. I usually do not use black to post shade, perfering grays, dark browns, and even drakening up the camo colors just a little. I also use an airbrush to do all my weathering except paint chipping. getting good control over your airbrush will allow to blend in camo, decals, panel lines to make the aircraft look "real" Which is really what you want. Fresh marking on a weather finish looks out of place and lack consistency. If you are dealing with dark colors (blues and black), try to just lighten the higher wear panels and leave the lines you want to stand out alone.  Personal perferance plays a large role in weathering and how it is appilied.

IN this pic the lines are actually darker then the low vis marking

pic not good but you can see all the panel lines of this F-4 from 30 feet away

Don't forget hatches as well

This it what happens to alum. when it sits in the weather.

To see some good panel line pics look at the early flying tigers pics.

Great set of photos phoenix.  The 4th one is a great example of how a panel will get dark at the edges sometimes.  Unless the panels lines are filled in, similar to what was done to a Mustang wing, there will be a minute disruption of air flow at the surface, turbulence at the boundary layer... take a look at the thread about what causes lift for tons of references... and this can lead to a build up of grime.