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USS Kearsarge

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  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Australia
USS Kearsarge
Posted by adouglas on Saturday, May 24, 2008 2:50 AM

 Hello fellow ship builders,

 I am just about to begin building the Revell USS Kearsarge and I was just wondering if there are any nasties I should know about before I begin.

I have just finished the Hella HMS Victory so I think this should be a doddle ! 

Pirate [oX)]

 Andrew

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:50 AM

We've had quite a few discussions about this kit here in the Forum; a search on the word "Kearsarge" will bring up quite a few posts that should be of some use.  There's also some very useful material about the ship and the kit on the Steel Navy website (www.steelnavy.com); a search over there will turn up, for instance, a very thorough and knowledgeable comparative review of the Revell Kearsarge and Alabama kits - which are, shall we say, more similar to each other than they ought to be.

In brief, there are two big features of the kit that a serious scale modeler probably ought to be aware of before starting it.  Number one - it's basically a nice, well-detailed kit that represented the state of the art at the time it was originally released (in 1961, to coincide with the hoopla over the Civil War Centennial).  But somehow or other the Revell designers wound up representing her more-or-less as she was configured in the 1880s, rather than during the Civil War.  Number two - the kit was out of production for a long time before, a couple of years or so ago, Revell Germany reissued it.  (It's since disappeared again.)  I haven't seen an actual specimen of the German version, but several Forum members who've bought it have told horror stories of shoddy plastic quality, warpage, incompletely molded parts, inadequate instructions, etc., etc.  The consensus seems to be that anybody who can get hold of an American-molded example is lucky.

Dr. Graham's Remembering Revell Model Kits describes the original version of this kit as "Today's most sought-after Revell sailing ship," with a value on the collector's market of $130-150.  The copy of the book that I'm looking at, though, is of the second edition, dated 2004 - before Revell Germany reissued the kit.  As I understand it, yet another edition of the book is on the verge of publication right now.  (Apparently the book has been quite popular - deservedly so, in my opinion.)  It will be interesting to see how that reissue of the kit has affected those dollar figures - if at all.  I don't remember just how much the German version cost, but I think most mail order dealers were selling it for between $75 and $100.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Robert on Sunday, May 25, 2008 2:53 AM
I am building this kit at present and have had no problems with it, except that the rigging instructions are not too clear. It is my third attempt at it in 40 years , I still have the one I made in 1971 so am just copying the rigging off that. There is a square hole in the aftermost part of the deck that wasn't there in previous versions of this kit, and it needs to be covered up somehow. If you can build the Heller Victory you should have zero trouble with the Kearsarge.   
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:19 AM

I have built the Revell of Germany version with no difficulties. Also, I respectfully disagree that there are many similarities between this kit and the Alabama. I have built the Alabama, matching it to photos from the model at the U.S. Naval Academy Museum. The two ships and the two models have very different shaped hulls, deckwork, armaments, rigs, etc. I was quite satisfied with both, except for the molded-on gunport lids.

As we all have said in different lines, there is no such thing as a problem-free model kit. They all contain inaccuracies. It remains for us as modelers to find the inacurracies and the problems, correct them, and finish the model to our satisfaction. Revell's USS KEARSARGE and CSS ALABAMA are no exceptions.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:45 AM

The hole in the deck at the stern is left over from the kit's latest go-around as the Alabama, which had the ability to lift her propeller clear of the water to reduce drag under sail and had a hatch in this location.  This was a feature Kerasrage did not have, though she may, in fact, have had a rectangular hatch located in this position in 1864.  This hole, as stated above, was not present on the original Kearsarge issue.

There is little question that the Kearsarge and Alabama are derived from the same tooling and it is a very interesting exercise to compare the two kits sprue for sprue.  Many of the parts are common, although some are modified and each kit has its share of unique parts.  The hulls are identical below the waterline and there is a heavy mold line at the top of the copper plating, indicating, perhaps, some sort of interchangeable hull mold.  This heavy line is not present on either the Cutty Sark/Thermopylae or Constitution/United States hulls.  The decks sections are identical in size and shape and have bosses on the backside for all of the holes required for both kits, including different mast locations.  These have been present from the first issue of Kearsarge and indicate that Revell probably planned on this "double duty" from the original design of the kit.

 

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:31 PM

Here's a good review of the Revell Alabama and Kearsarge kits: http://www.steelnavy.com/Alabama&Kearsarge.htm .

On the basis of my own recollections (which are pretty stale now), I have to agree with Mr. LaBow.  The Kearsarge kit represented a state-of-the-art attempt to produce a scale model, the big flaw being the designers' failure to "backdate" the plans they were looking at to the ship's 1864 configuration in some respects while "backdating" them in others.  It's certainly one of the best kits of its era.

The Alabama kit was largely an effort to recycle parts from the Kearsarge into another product.  Note Mr. LaBow's observation that the hull halves of the two kits fit together precisely.  (He also makes the interesting suggestion that the Alabama hull might make a better starting point for an 1864-configured Kearsarge.)  Dozens of other parts from the two kits are interchangeable.

Revell did, in 1961 (or, more likely, 1959 or 1960; it presumably took a long time to produce the two kits), have an excellent excuse for making mistakes of accuracy in its Alabama kit.  At that time little was known about the actual ship - so little, in fact, that it would have been difficult to establish that any features of the Revell kit (except the 11-foot discrepancy in the length of the hull) were actually mistakes.  Since that time a surprising amount of additional information about the Alabama has come to light - including two contemporary models (one of which showed up at the museum where I used to work) and several previously unknown photographs (including a couple of outboard shots showing the whole ship).  The book C.S.S. Alabama:  Anatomy of a Confederate Raider  ( http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=Andrew+Bowcock ) contains an excellent survey of the available information (as of a couple of years ago), along with a set of reconstructed plans that would be excellent for building a model.  Unfortunately the book appears to be out of print at the moment, but it's really a "must-read" for anybody trying to reconstruct this ship accurately.

The wreck of the Alabama was discovered a few years ago, and has undergone study by underwater archaeologists (including a couple from the joint where I work).  The few artifacts brought up so far, though, don't really have much to offer modelers.

It would, of course, be unfair to criticize Revell for failing to take all this recently-uncovered material into consideration when it designed that kit almost fifty years ago.  (There's a sobering thought:  the total elapsed time since the start of the American Civil War has increased by almost fifty percent since those kits were released.)  I'm not prepared to put that Alabama kit in the same category as the Revell "Beagle," which I regard as one of the more reprehensible examples of deceptive marketing in the history of the scale model kit industry.  In the eyes of a knowledgeable Civil War naval history buff of 1961, the Alabama kit, carefully built, would have looked about as much like the real ship as could reasonably have been expected.

My parents bought me the two kits the next year - the Alabama for my twelfth birthday and the Kearsarge for Christmas.  (The Alabama retailed for $12.00 and the Kearsarge for $10.00; that made them, along with the Revell Cutty Sark and Thermopylae, just about the most expensive plastic kits on the market.  But Lazarus's department store discounted them a little.)  I hate to think what they looked like when I got done with them, but the family and my friends were quite impressed.  I remember proudly carrying them to school shortly after Christmas for show-and-tell.  One of the other members of my sixth grade class - a girl who presumably knew next to nothing about ships or modeling - asked, "Why do they look almost alike?"  And they certainly did.  In reality the two ships did resemble each other a great deal from a distance.  But not as much as the Revell kits.

My earlier comments on quality control in the recent Revell Germany reissue were, as I noted in that post, based entirely on other people's experiences.  Here's an example: /forums/602912/ShowPost.aspx .  It sounds like the individual kits from that reissue vary a great deal; I guess that's to be expected.

Maybe the bottom line in this discussion is the same one we've agreed on in several other recent threads:  both these kits were excellent products for their time and, though they don't come up to the 2008 standards of the plastic kit industry, given the dearth of such kits we might as well be thankful that they're available at all - to the extent that they are.  (Both kits are currently gone from the catalogs of both U.S. Revell and Revell Europe.)

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:42 PM

I'm sorry, I just don't see the similarities between the models. Comparing them side-by-side, the KEARSARGE is slightly larger, has different outboard hull details, different gunports, a different stern, a raised focs'l, and different deck details. Their respective prows differ; their propellors are also different. They look little alike.

There are some similarities; they have many of the same fife rails. That is about it. The Revell CSS ALABAMA is almost identical in detail to the U.S. Naval Academy museum model, at least when comparing the Revell model to pictures of the museum piece. Perhaps I will revisit the Academy museum and compare them side-by-side.

Bill Morrison 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:16 PM

Andrew

Look at Cottage Industries.They make a nice set of cannons for the Revell kit.Good luck

Rod

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, May 26, 2008 12:20 AM

I'll just add this. At the tender age of less than thirteen when I built the 2 in quick succession, like the Prof did, I'd heard of neither. I had already built the big Constitution in 6th grade, and basically was under the impression that most sailing ships pretty much looked like an American Frigate from 1812.

I hand made a set of sails for the Kearsarge, my first and last attempt ever to do so. She hung on wires for many years over the fireplace at my parents home, and I'll have to find the Polaroid I took.

My hat tips to Revell for what must have been a tremendous investment. The point about the Civil War centennial makes sense to me. The point made about the time frame stretching is a good one. I had a Great Grandmother whom I knew very well who was born in 1861. And my Dads fraternal grandfather was a general officer, West Point 1903.

The Johnnie Reb cannon didn't make it into our house, but it was a very popular toy and we all had little Kepis too.

My big rip-off point with Revell was the Seeadler. I fancied myself Von luckner and read the book upside down and backwards, sketched her all the time, then bought the... Eagle, I think? Is that a joke?

I look forward to buying Dr. Grahams book. I never understood why Revell made something so arcane, so big and so expensive as these as opposed to say, the Great Eastern.

Bill

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Monday, May 26, 2008 5:47 AM

The Revell of Germany reissue can be very depressing when you open the box and see the huge amount of flash the weary molds have produced. If you can stand doing major clean-ups you can still build a very presentable USS Kearsarge. I would certainly not call it the "model from hell" that a fellow forum dweller described this model as being. See it rather as a state of the art model from a good 50 years ago............Evil [}:)] 

I have added some photo's of my build finished nearly a year ago (and yes, I skipped on the ratlines .......).

The build had a high nostalgia content for me because I built the CSS Alabama when I was studying to be a merchant naval officer about 35 years ago. The two models are very similar and evidently have the same mold in their lineage.My 2 cents [2c]

cheers,

JulianSmile [:)]

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, May 26, 2008 8:53 AM

Bondoman's observation about his great-grandmother reminds me of an anecdote I read in the Reader's Digest a few years ago.  Perhaps, in a slightly perverted way, it's appropriate to mention on this Memorial Day.

Two teenagers were leafing through a scrapbook at their grandmother's house, and stumbled across a photo of her wearing her WWII Navy uniform.

Teenager:  "Why, Grandma!  I didn't know you'd served in the military!"

Grandmother (with some understandable pride):  "Yes, I was in the WAVES."

Teenager:  "Gee, that's really cool.  It's just a shame that your side lost."

Grandmother:  "What do you mean, my side lost?"

Teenager:  "Well...aren't you from the South?"

Some people don't believe that story.  I do.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Australia
Posted by adouglas on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:15 AM

Hi fellow modellers,

 Thank you so much for your comprehensive and informative replies.

I will need to do some more research before I begin and your threads will assist greatly.

Again thanks 

Pirate [oX)]

Andrew 

 

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