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Retro PzKw 38(t) Completed

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Retro PzKw 38(t) Completed
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, March 20, 2011 7:23 AM

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Dragon PzKw 38 (t) Ausf. G, 35 scale, kit 6290

Paints: Tamiya Acrylics for base

Weathering: Winton oils, MM enamels, Doc O’Brien’s Pigments

 

PROJECT

 

This is the first of two tanks I’m going to put into a Finescale group build on the Ostfront. It will joined in a couple of weeks or so by a Trumpeter KV-2. Both tanks were in the middle of the most important campaign in military history – Hitler’s drive for Moscow in 1941.

 

I’m not sure how this fool’s errand began but it was too obvious that these two machines came from different worlds. If a tank can be called elegant, the Pz 38(t) deserves the term. The proportions are spot on and the lines clean to a fault: sort of an armored Zero. The KV-2, in addition to being about 15 or 20 times bigger than the Wehrmacht’s Czech import was also arguably the ugliest land weapon ever built by man. Both were tanks. Both met at the nexus of modern history. Beyond that they’ve nothing in common. So I couldn’t approach building them in the same way.

 

I’m getting old and much of the 21st century is not to my liking. (Models are good of course.) We’re living in an era when the New York and London Times could seriously go broke. A lot of what we used to call “bad vibes” are flowing around. Just so happened that I bought an old copy of an Osprey Master Class book on modeling Wehrmacht armor by Tony Greenland. I’ve never met the gent and haven’t read much of his writings. I’ve been told that twenty years back he was winning IPMS prizes by the truckload. His style is refined to a fault and requires an extremely steady hand and eye. I think it’s safe to say his work can be considered “retro” in our time when the heavy weather builders like Adam Wilder and erstwhile comrade Mig Jimenez are pouring on washes, pigments, mud, stains, battle damage, scrapes and anything else that can attack a tidy tank and are firmly in the saddle. I don’t regret this – the four tanks I built before this one were influenced heavily by this approach and those to follow will also. (I plan on trashing the KV-2 in every possible way: it does deserve it.) Greenland didn’t join this parade. He simply claimed he modeled German tanks and not the mud they fought in. His critics have accused him of building models that are “too pretty.” He pleads guilty. That’s not to say his work lacks complexity – as we shall see, far from it. Just to look backward, below is one of Greenland’s wonderful models from the 90s:

 

 

I knew I couldn’t possibly build a kit to rival that of one of the best modelers in the world. But if there was ever a time to try to see if I could understand and put to use Greenland’s approach (I had a 120 page book of his let’s remember) this lovely little tank was just the ticket. So thus I started on my retro tank project. It was a humbling experience.

 

THE KIT:

If I was going to take a walk down memory lane while building my fifth tank, I was in the firm hand of Dragon. First, let me dispense with an obvious point. This kit included a full interior. (A kit preceding it was the Marder III: judging on the huge number of extra parts, the tank was a kind of after thought.) Unless I wanted some kind of cut-away, the crew compartment was going to be nearly invisible. I could have exposed the engine. I’ve got a Marder and a couple of half tracks. We’ll get to that in good time. This time around, I wanted the Pz 38 going down the Moscow Road, not sitting in the tank park. It did simplify the build but when dealing with Dragon that’s not necessarily bad.

 

Dragon and I are developing a “working relationship” that will remain strictly professional. They do produce splendidly detailed tanks. And as I’ve just finished working on a genuinely bad model, one has to admit that Dragon has important strong points. But any way you dice it, these kits are for experienced modelers that enjoy a challenge. I believe this kit has been out for a while and may not be “state of the art.” The part count was not astronomical, but it kept me busy. (Dragon has an astonishing number of little plastic knobs stuck to almost everything on the sprue tree – no idea why. The parts themselves are very clean.) The problem with Dragon, I think is unavoidable. They build a complicated model – that gives both the builder and the maker many opportunities to screw things up. I found this one a fight from beginning to end. The fit was not as good as my Brummbar. There were a lot of pieces that required sanding and there are a lot of pieces. The instructions do not tell you why things are optional are optional but I can’t claim they were defective. Not Tamiya mind you, but they had enough diagrams that if you looked around you could see how things were supposed to fit together. There were three bad moments in the build and two were because I was an idiot. The third was Dragon as I know it – when they screw up, your heart rate goes up because they specialize in making “mission critical” parts dicey. In my case it was the superstructure. It fit the front hull pretty well (no putty: Gator Glue served for handle a few seams) but put up a little fight in the rear: then in snapped into perfect place. Unfortunately, it clicked loudly and this was a dry-fit on an unfinished piece. To get it out, I came close to lifting out the rear superstructure along with it – not good. But it worked.

 

I used Karl Logan’s methods on Magic Tracks and almost got them to work. (I mistimed the set time a little on both runs, putting them on too soon on one side and too late on the other. So repair work on one side and not the best sag on the other. I didn’t sweat that though because from looking at photos it appeared that a lot of 38ts had very minimal sag.) But it was still several hours for more detailed tracks. Maybe it was worth it here, but if Dragon and Tamiya’s latest one-piece are anywhere near as good as I’ve heard, I won’t miss Magic Tracks. But overall, it did fit. And actually looked okay after construction. Might add that I tried to use the PE. I got a couple of major pieces in place pretty well I think, but was baffled by PE belts for the tools. As the texture of trimmed Tamiya tape was closer to leather, I saved myself a lot of bother.

 

 

 

Weathering:

Greenland is not an outright reactionary like ship wizard Jim Baumann who doesn’t normally use an airbrush I’ve been told. That said, you have to clear out mentally a lot of things you think normal to do things his way. Before starting up the compressor the entire kit should be done. (I fudged on the tools and antenna.) You then airbrush the whole shebang a base color – in my case Tamiya German Grey. This was followed with a coat of Future and decals. (Dragon decals appear to be very good.)  You end up with a very dark tank. Greenland is a great believer in scale effect and, as he predicted, that changed. Here’s the buggy after the base and Future:

 

 

 

 

Then you create your best possible match of the base color with artist oils mixed with a tad of extra linseed oil to keep the finish satin. Mine was 40% Paynes Grey; 40% Black and 20% white. (A satin superstructure is central the Greenland process.) You begin by dry brushing the entire model. Then you do it again, this time with the color lightened and progressively small areas. You want the various zones to meld but to have distinctly different shades – his style of color modulation. With patience it works. It is good for those new to this game that oils are forgiving. And as Greenland assures you, things that don’t look so hot will get better. But there was a lot brushing involved. This pic (a bad one) is in the middle of dry brushing:

 

 

Altogether I did five coats of oils. (Because so little paint is on there, it’s not required to wait in between coats but Greenland wisely insists on a new and dry brush on every change of color.) At the end I was using a off-white. Once this is done you airbrush the substructure an earth color. The wheels on the 38T are look a little Panther’s so I tried to leave them a distinct grey. Then you dry brush the wheels, tracks etc an ever lightening earth color. At the end, instead of going to an off white, you break out an oily silver enamel (I used Vallejo oily silver acrylic)  and drybrush tracks, tools, angled points on both the sub and superstructure. After that’s over, you break out pigments. I can’t swear to it, but I’ve been told that Greenland was one of the first major modeling authors that got on the pigment band wagon. He used artist pastels of course – MIG etc weren’t there. Black on top, brown on the bottom. (Along the line you drybrush the exhaust rust color and dust that too. That way I was able to get my lovely Polly Scale oxide primer which is the perfect base for rust.) Here is when you begin to see why Greenland was indifferent to washes. He wants you to grind dark pigments into every nook and cranny. With Panzergrau it’s not easy to see the panel lines in a photo, but it does work. I know of aircraft modelers that use pigments on panel lines. It works and it does blend together the various shades of drybrushed greys. Almost done. The last shot is to get out Tamiya acrylic Chrome Silver and drybrush it very very gingerly along the turret edges, sides of tracks etc. Amazing how just a little bit on top of the oil silver pops out at the eye.

 

The last decision was kind of up in the air. Greenland wants a satin superstructure and a dead flat substructure with a blended zone between. He wasn’t really specific about whether he wanted the pigments sealed – although he did remark that they stood up to handling very well. I was very surprised that the superstructure (which had gone from quite light to a really sweet “scaled” Panzergrau after the black pigments) had enough linseed oil and Future in there to remain distinctly satin. And gloss wasn’t intended. So I left it alone. I finished the project with a 2.5/1 mixture of Future/Tamiya Flat Base and sprayed it underneath. That’s a terrific matt medium and lacks the tension involved with Dullcoate. And the satin/flat distinction is quite evident in person.

 

Well, I can understand why Greenland won lots of prizes and I can understand why other methods are used today. Although greys are really tough to photograph, I think some of the complexity comes through. There’s more color modulation in that kit than anything I’ve done previously by a country mile. However a good modeler could get to the same place a lot more directly I think. And the model is “too pretty.” My wife likes it, which says something (she asked me when I was going to make it dirty?). Maybe on a bad day Wilder or Jimenez go overboard, but there’s no doubt that if you want to model a front line AFV they were very heavily weathered. What would be interesting would be to take a Greenland model and then weather the devil out of it. It would work I’m sure but take a lot of time that could be spent elsewhere.

 

There’s one other problem with Greenland’s procedure. (Beyond the fact that being very good really helps. Greenland points out with validity that weathering can hide a lot of sins. No fig leaves in his kits.) All of that hand painting requires a lot of handling. And going over and over every bit of your kit is just begging for things to come off. And they did a couple of times, but I caught them.

 

It was fun. Doubt I’ll ever do another one, but I can see now that his techniques might have real use in the ship world. And who’d want to get such a cute little Panzer dirty?

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    June 2007
Posted by Labour In Vain on Sunday, March 20, 2011 8:49 AM

Thank you Eric.
Excellent story.
It is interesting to see that it is possible to take a historical view that is only 20 years old...but you are right, it is possible.
I wonder what the step change was?
Internet?
Anyway, you enlightened my Sunday. 

And congratulations to a qute litte Panzer Wink

As always
Boarder

Avatar © David Byrden 2005 http://Tiger1.info/
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:12 PM

Like many things in the hobby, much has changed in terms of methods and approaches over the last 20 years. As you've discovered, there are easier/more direct ways to get the results that Greenland pioneered with this methods but at the time he introduced them, they made a lot of waves. Looks like your experiment achieved its objective though, you were able to experience first-hand what it was like trying to replicate Greenland's approach/methods. Beer

Sounds like you've also discovered some of the "joys" of working with Dragon kits. As for the reason for all the little nubs on parts, that's so that you don't end up with ejector marks on the parts themselves...the little nubs serve that purpose. Does make for a bit more clean-up/care but I'd rather deal with that then have the knock-out ejector marts on the parts themselves. One area that Dragon always does poorly in is their instructions...have yet to build a single kit of theirs over the last 9 years that didn't have at least 1 error in the instructions. They do expect the builder to be knowledgeable about their subject when it comes to optional parts as well...the only time they ever offer an guidance is if you're dealing with a 2 or 3-in-1 type kit and even then, because they borrow parts and diagrams from their own previously-produced kits to reduce mold costs, sometimes what guidance they do offer can lead to some interesting destinations if you're not careful. Wink  

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:53 PM

I love Tony Greenland's work and anyone would be hard pressed to match it. he really has his own style.

Nice build overall. A couple of things that stand out to me. It appears that the tool box is painted metal (could be the photo). It should be painted grey. The jack block appears metal. It should be wood.

Very informative tutorial and I appreciate your taking the time to share it.

 

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by spadx111 on Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:34 PM

Yes very nice enjoyed the post alot great build nice pics.

Ron

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:44 PM

You're right about the jack - just missed it. I also lost some cable cutters. After looking at a few dozen photos of Pz38s in Russia I can see the value of scratch building or having a "stash." Some of those little tanks (they look little in the photos too) were just loaded with junk. At least I didn't have to worry about placement. The toolbox had a plastic version that I thought looked fine. I have no idea if real German tool boxes had holes in them - but I thought I should put on the PE version because it was there. I primed the thing out of a can (Greeland's instructions - no joke) and it sure goes fast. Maybe not enough of it. No doubt that the PE texture showed through the base coat and a gallon of oils. I'd like to think that tank #6 will be better.

Might add that this kit was really tough to photograph. We just had a thread on Panzergrau and I found it really hard to get the color in the photo to match what was in front of my mug. (Bill will understand.) Too light; too dark - I felt like Goldilocks. The end result is pretty close but it took dozens of photos. I have Greenland's recipe for Panzergrau and if he used it on his kits, no way they would have had the color of the one I reproduced here which has a bit of earth color or olive in it. In my Greenland book he only has a handful of grey AFVs: guy obviously loved camo. One was an armored car that was more clearly dark grey adjusted for scale.

This is a really good reason to get involved with an IPMS club or equivalent. My hobby shop has some very old display kits laying around - I'd junk them all. I don't know any serious plastic modelers. So outside of my humble collection and some museums, I've never seen a well made plastic model in person. Bet you'd learn a lot.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:35 PM

EBergerud

You're right about the jack - just missed it. I also lost some cable cutters. After looking at a few dozen photos of Pz38s in Russia I can see the value of scratch building or having a "stash." Some of those little tanks (they look little in the photos too) were just loaded with junk. At least I didn't have to worry about placement. The toolbox had a plastic version that I thought looked fine. I have no idea if real German tool boxes had holes in them - but I thought I should put on the PE version because it was there. I primed the thing out of a can (Greeland's instructions - no joke) and it sure goes fast. Maybe not enough of it. No doubt that the PE texture showed through the base coat and a gallon of oils. I'd like to think that tank #6 will be better.

Might add that this kit was really tough to photograph. We just had a thread on Panzergrau and I found it really hard to get the color in the photo to match what was in front of my mug. (Bill will understand.) Too light; too dark - I felt like Goldilocks. The end result is pretty close but it took dozens of photos. I have Greenland's recipe for Panzergrau and if he used it on his kits, no way they would have had the color of the one I reproduced here which has a bit of earth color or olive in it. In my Greenland book he only has a handful of grey AFVs: guy obviously loved camo. One was an armored car that was more clearly dark grey adjusted for scale.

This is a really good reason to get involved with an IPMS club or equivalent. My hobby shop has some very old display kits laying around - I'd junk them all. I don't know any serious plastic modelers. So outside of my humble collection and some museums, I've never seen a well made plastic model in person. Bet you'd learn a lot.

Eric

After going to a few shows, it's obvious that I have a very long way to go to match the workmanship that I've seen. I've been trying to incorporate new techniques, but just haven't mastered them yet. I kind of accept that I have my own style and that I need to build for myself, not others

There's a reason you don't see much of my work here. LOL Embarrassed

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: San Antonio
Posted by MAJ Mike on Monday, March 21, 2011 6:27 AM

Great job.  I like the comment regarding weathering and mud.  We're modeling vehicles, not dirt.  With that in mind, I think I'll quit worrying about splash patterns and paint chips.  Especially liked the finish on the exhaust system. 

Very well done!!

 

 

 "I'd "I'd rather be historically accurate than politically correct."

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!"

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, March 21, 2011 6:59 AM

Great thread with information that can be incorporated in a modern build. Let's see 15-20 years from now what techniques are going to be used. As far as the weathering goes, sometimes we tend to over do it, making the tank look like a rolling rustng wreck.   I spoke with an older gentleman this weekend while visiting the USS Yorktown. He served as a tank Commander in WWII and told me that  tank crews took pride in their vehicles and made an attempt to maintain it when possible. He said that was also "their living quarters" and he demanded a clean and tidy house. I suspect that by the later years of the war that did not happen with the German armor.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:35 PM

Thankee for taking time to read my ramblings. I do a lot of writing and it's kind of hard wired.

You're spot on I'd bet concerning a "tidy home." Although I'd bet that was the case for all the armies. If you look at the photos taken of tanks in long and hard campaigns it's striking how many of them are a real mess. The tanks obviously in the rear or in "romps" like France in 1940 much less so. I've interviewed hundreds of soldiers for my research and one thing often mentioned was that among the miseries of combat, filth is probably ranked just beneath mortal fear. WWII soldiers didn't live in a peace time world of daily showers, but they didn't live near the Tractor Factory in Stalingrad either (or on Guadalcanal or the "boonies" near Cu Chi). If the soldiers themselves are covered top to bottom with mud, dirt etc etc you can bet housekeeping standards in the tank slip badly. For the modeler this this means you can go any way with weathering as the mood strikes. Until this one, all of mine were properly "mudded" (if that's not a word, it should be in modeling). This was a real change.

Also noticed something very interesting. Unless a model is going to a show (that will be very far down the road for yours truly - like maybe someplace in the multi-verse) it ends up on a shelf after a few posts here. Then you live with it and look at it very differently. And, truth be told, I like looking at my models and do it briefly very often. But I never handle them: usually check them out from several feet away, or even across the room. Your kit looks a lot different then than when taking display photos from 6" or less away. And as a display object, the Pz38T works really well. You can actually see the tone changes more clearly from a little distance - the Panzergrau does have a kind of modulation: even changes with the angle. The very flat wheels/tracks do contrast with the satin finish and it works. I'd really like to see one of Greenland's kits in person. It may be that this is a kind of build that would work better via eyeball. 

The big question is such an exacting type of build fun. Maybe if it landed you an Osprey contract it would be. One thing you do give up is the "inner child" that must be aroused when you're airbrushing mud onto the rear of your tank or developing a technique that will simulate some kind of chaos. But in this hobby, except for a handful of people lucky enough to get paid for it, the purpose is the journey and not the destination. Cliche, but true.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:39 AM

Interesting read.  I am not familiar with Tony Greenland's work.  If it's 20 years ago he fell in the middle of one of my off modeling periods.

plastickjunkie

 Let's see 15-20 years from now what techniques are going to be used.

It will be interesting to see the techniques that survive the 20 years.  The hair spray technique?  the "Spanish" school?  And what new ones come along.  Laser etch camo patterns?  Airbrushes that can spray multiple colors at once? 3D printers that are so affordable that the spare parts box will be discussed as one of the bygone quirks of modeling?  Just as long as I am still here to see what happens.

Marc  

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:55 AM

Maybe drybrushing oils by the bucket. I was literally just checking out photos and builds of KV-2 because I'm starting one. I assumed that modelers would want to wreak havoc on a brutal, ugly machine like that - it cries for all kinds of abuse. (I have that in mind.) And I found one on Hyperscale that was painted like a Greenland. Restrained, very subtle tones, almost no weathering. Now that I know what's done, the thing was obviously given multiple coats of oils. Guess if you stay in one place long enough, the world will come back to you.

Eric

Actually I want real retro. I've seen films on Youtube of those old RC 1/16 Tigers that Tamiya used to make: you can still buy them for about $800 or so? Personally I find the idea of driving a big tiger all over my house really sweet. It might cost me a divorce, but you only live once.

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

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