1/48 B-17 dio....getting back in the saddle

just a reply to follow this dio.

RedRaider, Sounds like an ambitious project.  Good luck.  I'll keep an eye out.  Hey, I was born a Buckeye.  Went to college in Indiana.  Didn't move north.  All of a sudden I'm 55.  Make the most of the upcoming years, kiddo.  They start going fast.  Rick.

This is where I am right now with the project....hopefully paint is going on tomorrow

not much of an update, but better than nothing....just a layout of the figures

redraider56

The 322nd encountered 35-100 enemy aircraft that made 2 hard pressed nose attacks, and intense and accurate flak when over the target.  No planes were lost from the squadron, but Man O War II was one of 6 planes from the 322nd to receive major battle damage on this, the plane's 16th mission.  My diorama #16 In The Books will depict the bomber upon its return to Bassingbourn. 

I take it that you'll be posing the model on a hardstand with the various crew and ground figures standing around it and a jeep parked nearby...

 However, I'm not seeing much in the way of damge on the model so far.. it looks like you'vve got some random bullet holes that you added with a hot needle here & there, but no real damage, at least none that matches what's described in the narrative above... Can you describe a bit better what's going to be happening or haven't you planned that far ahead yet? 

Just curious, since adding "major battle-damage" after the model is assembled is a real pain, and usually doesn't look very good...  When B-17s (and other aircraft for that matter) were hit with flak, heavy maching gun, and cannon-fire, large chunks of airplane went missing, rather than a bunch of round holes appearing.. Rifle-caliber MGs made the little round holes, but they aren't type-writers, so holes appear in clusters with a few random ones around the impact area.   Flak and machinegun/cannon-damged areas are best done before you assemble the model, since you need to thin the plastic from the inside to best depict the thin skin of an aircraft.

You also have to watch where you add damage, as you're depicting an aircraft that made it back, so you don't want that damage to appear in an area that that would have resulted in the actual downing of that type aircraft...  You may want to consider showing previously repaired areas on the ship as well since, with the bottom picture depicting 47 missions, "Man-o-War II" was definately a veteran war-wagon, and likely had taken a hit or two on other occasions...

They (patches) can be easily done by thinning small squarish pieces of srtip styrene, sanded to the point of being almost transparent, and gluing them to the bomber in various places, to represent the sheet-metal repairs of the skin... Then just paint them in a darker or lighter shade of the aircraft's base color (or it could be different shade of green altogether, since local RAF stocks of paint were often used).

As far as figure placement goes, you may want to consider using a couple of them to draw your viewer's attention any damaged portions of the plane, and a couple more to draw attention to the jeep, since that will also be a supporting factor, letting your viewer know that the planes weren't parked next to hangar, but quite some distance away... Where any of the crew wounded on that mission?  A wounded crewman, perhaps still being treated by a fellow crewman until help arrives, always adds visual interest too..

In Shep Paine's "taxi-accident" diorama above, these visual cues were used quite effectively to point out the damage to the engine that had also caught fire on the mission, forcing the pilot to shut it down and feather the prop, as well as the amount of damage taken elswhere.  We also see a top turet gunner sitting down on a pile of 'chutes and looking at the dented flak helmet that probably saved his life (Although you can't see it here, the top turret has a hole in the plexiglass that is right about in line with where the gunner's helmeted head was furing the mission).. There's also the afore-mention damge from previous missions visible as well.

Anyway, looking forward t seeing how you do.. Keep pluggin' away at it!

I had better pics of the damage somewhere on the B-17 GB thread, but I didn't really do anything drastic.  The right wing tip is chewed up a little big and the tail fin has a couple big holes, and theres the random strings of bullets.  One of the engines is shut out and it will look the part when painted.  The first plane I had for this build I used heated needles, but with this plane I thinned the plastic from the inside and poked through holes from the outside.  Plus, who knows what "major damage" is.  After every mission report there were only 2 damage categories, minor and major.  I may try to track down some Teknics damaged tail surfaces though....  You mentioned repair patches too, I and I plan on doing that...in one of the plane photos above you can the real thing had a few patches on the nose.  It will all look the part when I'm done, but it doesn't really right now.

As for where I am, I f-ed up the OD coat and stripped that and then had to replace all the glass in it too, so progress is kinda slow, but I should get a bit done when I go home for thanksgiving

I have already planned where I'm gonna put the figures.  Just off the nose, the pilot and a base officer will be standing next to the jeep along with 2 crewman from another plane, making it look like they just arrived.  The jeep will have ammo boxes, a flak jacket (maybe),, a duffel bag, a parachute or 2 and life preservers and parachute harnesses I made from metal foil.  The copilot will be standing alone under the right wingtip gazing up at the near flak burst that ventilated the area.  Under the nose hatch will be some equipment with a ground crewman sitting on a step ladder talking to the bombardier.  By the national insignia on the left fuselage will stand the top turret gunner with his arms around the navigator and ball turret gunner as they gaze at the peppered waist area.  At the rear crew door, the waist gunners are sharing a smoke as they talk with the tail gunner while a ground crewman is at the door removing things.  In front of the plane a ground crewman and the radio operator will be looking skyward as the ground crewman points out the return of another bomber.  As for wounded crewman, the mission report didnt say anything and they usually did if someone was.  Although, that doesnt mean anyone suffered a minor wound and it wouldnt be too hard to paint on a bandage.

Plus, who knows what "major damage" is. 

The Army Air Force did, lol... In a nutshell: "Major damage" is that which, because of enemy action, weather, or accident, requires immediate repair/replacement of major components (ie:airframe, powerplants, avionics, life-support, or weapons delivery/defense sytems) that without which would render the aircraft NMC (Non -Mission Capapable) and/or not airworthy, and also to the extent that "any continued operation will pose a significant risk of further damage or total loss of aircraft or may pose risk of injury, illness,or loss of life to crewmembers" and minor damage as that caused by enemy action, weather, or accident which results in the aircraft still being airworthy, but only in a restricted/limited capability and requires repair/replacement of certain components or systems to ensure the aircraft is FMC(Fully Mission Capable).

 Aircraft in the latter category may be "operated only in an emergency and/or in a limited capacity under certain restrictions outlined to and approved by the Squadron Maintenence Officer and approved by the Commander"...

What that  basically means is an aircraft that's suffered minor damage can be flown if it absolutely HAS to be flown.  The "certain restrictions" can mean a lot of different things and have to be listed specifically, like "may not be flown in combat areas", or "may only be ferried to nearest depot maintenence base for further repair with minumum crew necessary for safe operation", or "may not be flown above 10,000 feet " (like if the oxygen system was damaged)...

I was a member of the CAF's B-29 "FiFi" flight crew  for two years and we used most of the same forms used by the USAAF "back in the day" (Naturally, along with all the regular required FAA stuff  too) for her maintenance (No sense in re-inventing the wheel).  

The aircraft's manuals contain copies of all the forms used by the USAF , including everything from the crew "squawk sheets" to all the major combat, damage, and accident reports.  The only thing that hasn't really changed since 1945 is the paperwork (except that now there's more of it but a lot is now on "electronoic forms".  

(Off-topic but good trivia): "FiFi" was built for the USAAF as a B-29A in 1944, delivered in 1945, then became a TB-29A, declared "Excess" (probably as a wing "hack", meaning some Colonel's private airplane), then returned to the USAF as a B-29A in 1951. She was then assigned to various SAC units, including being converted back to a TB-29A,  until she was delivered to the Navy in 1957 and finally struck from the USAF rolls to be a missile target at China Lake Naval Weapons Training Range until we discovered and recovered her in 1971...

Sorry about the long-winded answer, but I'm waiting for the gloss black paint to dry on my CAF P-82 and got nothing else to do right now, lol...

As for you diorama plan,  it sounds like you got a good handle on what you're gonna do with her, and I'm looking forward to seeing your work... I love B-17 dioramas and (aside from the fact that everything I build is for a diorama) think that there's no better way to display those wonderful birds..

From the sounds of it I think I'll be in good job shape with the damage (pardon the reverse pun).  I'm thinking I may cut off the rudder and do something it with it too, but thats just and idea.

Hans von Hammer

 

 

As for you diorama plan,  it sounds like you got a good handle on what you're gonna do with her, and I'm looking forward to seeing your work... I love B-17 dioramas and (aside from the fact that everything I build is for a diorama) think that there's no better way to display those wonderful birds..

Thanks....I excited too.  It all seems so great in my head but I'm still a ways away from that point.   Once I get over the hurdle of painting it (I'm afraid I'll mess up the next coat again) it should go fairly quick.

I gotta get this done so I can start on my 8th AF GB builds....a 1/48 B-24 and 1/48 P-47.  The Liberator is begging me for a diorama but the B-17 is gonna drain me I think....

I CANT WAIT to start my AM B-25D but that is 3rd on the list after the diorama....then I picked up a 1/48 B-26 too

Hans, well you got me thinking and I looked at some damaged B-17s and found this page to be quite helpful.

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm  

Like you said before, it's gonna be difficult to add damage after the plane has been put together.  However, after looking through the photos from the site above I found one with some damage I could easily make.  I have the right outboard engine shot out, and usually the crew would feather it.  But, feathering wasn't always a 100% process and the feathering mechanism would sometimes fail and that combined with the over speeding fan would cause the prop shaft to overheat and shear off resulting in this....

Wow, what a coincidence. I've been planning for years to do an  identical diorama except with a B-24.

I'm doing this in honor of my uncle who was a gunner on a B-24 (22nd bomb group) that crashed on takeoff at Samar, Philippines in early 1945.

One other thing, the 22nd bomb group was nicknamed the "Red Raiders".

Sweet!....good luck finding enough figures

I just came across the last piece I need for the diorama and I almost forgot it even though its a major part of a bomber airfield......bicycles

Hans von Hammer

IThe aircraft's manuals contain copies of all the forms used by the USAF , including everything from the crew "squawk sheets" to all the major combat, damage, and accident reports.  The only thing that hasn't really changed since 1945 is the paperwork (except that now there's more of it but a lot is now on "electronoic forms".  

You have heard the old crew chief saying, "When the weight of the paperwork exceeds the weight of the aircraft, it is ready to fly". 

I tried to replicate a lost prop as best I could according to the pic I have

I think it turned out alright, although I may have to "melt down" the crankcase a little more

looks good! how did you do it?

For the cowling I thinned the plastic from the inside and then twisted the edges with a needle nose pliers

Ambitious project.  Also an inspiration to finish my own, a Beetle and Kubelwagen WWII mainenance scene.  Nice work.

tI got a break for making damage....I was able to track down a Teknics damaged tail surfaces set on ebay and won it in the final seconds by less than a dollar.  Only problem I have no is that I have already attached and sanded the horizontal stabilizers and the set includes a damaged stabilizer, elevator, and rudder...hmm decisions, decisions.

I got the set today....this is gonna make the damage much easier and will more realistic than if I tried myself.  The stabilizer and rudder are slightly warped, but I should be able to fix them.

Alright, modeling has started to pick up again, along with this projct.  I'm finishing up a couple fighters and then will be hitting this hard.  Got alittle bit of cleaning up to do on the planr before I re-attempt the paint job.  I have a base for the dio but havnt worked on it much yet.  I picked up some  more figures the other day and I finally decided that 17 is the final count.  I've been painting them too, so work is being done on this project.

In the meanwhile, I found another picture of my plane that solves my question on grayed out national insignias.  The decal sheet I have provided grayed insignias to use but after contacting the 91st memorial site and talking with a guy there, I had my doubts.  Finally I came across this picture and it shows the insignias to be white....phew!

Good luck Matt,,, will be watching for updates!

Bill

Looks awesome so far Matt, looking forward to seeing more on this big beauty..

Finally finished stripping the botched OD paint. I was about to shoot some primer when a  seam opened up on the spine and tail fin, so I gotta go clean that up now