Renegade Velocity vs. Talon.

I have two Paasche airbrushes that have never let me down. One has been used steadily since 1983. My experience with Paasche products is that as long as you keep them cleaned they won't let you down. I plan on getting a Talon myself. 

That's a tough choice! The Talon would require that you either get a new hose, or an adapter. The Velocity would hook up to your existing hose.

Dixie Art offers the Talon with hose and .38 & .66 heads for $99 + $9.99 shipping , and $119 + $9.99 shipping adds the .25 head and the "fan" air cap (whatever that is!).

The Velocity with the .21 tip sells for $100.50 and that includes shipping.

I think I would go with the Badger, but I own a bunch so I'm a bit biased. It's certainly on my list of things I want!

Now that I think about it, I don't recall anyone on these boards who owns the Talon. There are people who swear by their H and VL models, the Badger 100LG, 105 and various T&C models, while many others prefer their Iwatas, but who uses a Talon? Anyone?

Here is what I wrote on ARC the other day. 

[url}http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=198877&view=findpost&p=1874932[/url]

As I said the Talons is a great performer and does have the options for the different tips I don't know what options the Velocity has. 

I think for $114.00 the Talon TG-F3 kit is the way to go.  You get all the tips and needles plus wrenches and air hose.  I consider it a bargain compared to most of the other airbrushes available.

tyamada

Here is what I wrote on ARC the other day. 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=198877&view=findpost&p=1874932

As I said the Talons is a great performer and does have the options for the different tips I don't know what options the Velocity has. 

I think for $114.00 the Talon TG-F3 kit is the way to go.  You get all the tips and needles plus wrenches and air hose.  I consider it a bargain compared to most of the other airbrushes available.

I have neither the Renegade nor the Talon and cannot commnet on them. I do want to suggest two for your consideration. I have the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS standard and the Badger Patriot 105 (fine nozzle), both are great for general purpose modeling tasks. But they have different feel to the control.

The standard Iwata HP-CS has a 0.35 mm nozzle and a long taper needle. The control is very smooth but tight. The paint flow opens up gently when you pull back the trigger.

The Badger Patriot fine nozzle is 0.51 mm (standard nozzle is 0.76 mm) and has a shorter taper on the needle. The paint flow opens up quicker when pulling back the trigger.

Both work very well. I personally prefer the Iwata, but many users on this forum like the Badger type control better. The choice is straightly personal.

Here is a poll at the ARC forum on airbrush choice. All of them have 0.2 mm nozzle for fine art work. If money is no objection, take a look at the Harder & Steenbeck Infinite 2-in-1.

Well, despite the fact I consider giving good ole greenbacks for Christmas the cheap way of doing things I guess I can't complain since I am now up $150 I did not have before, so now a new air brush is an absolute positive.  So the decision decision, which will it be.....

I am currently using a Badger 175 Crescendo.  For what it is I have had few complaints, and to add the great reviews I have been hearing about it is tempting to go with the Renegade Velocity.  BUT!  I did not want to say it coming into this thread so as to taint the open opinions I wanted to get, but the fact is I have been leaning slightly more towards the Talon.  Right now the concensus is running 2 for Talon, One for Badger and a new taker in the Iwata.  I will watch this thread until probably Saturday to let a few more get their opinions in, and then make the purchase then.  I want to get it as soon as possible because I have a practice Aircraft build I am doing that I want to try some freehand camo on.

Brian

I think the only negative thing I've read about the Talon is that one fellow said the .4oz cup made it seem top heavy.   A lot of people seem to like it fine though.

Don

New Hampshire

I have been leaning slightly more towards the Talon.  Right now the concensus is running 2 for Talon, One for Badger and a new taker in the Iwata.  I will watch this thread until probably Saturday to let a few more get their opinions in, and then make the purchase then.  I want to get it as soon as possible because I have a practice Aircraft build I am doing that I want to try some freehand camo on.

Brian

Brian, I believe that the Renegade Velocity and the Talon are NOT comparable because they were each designed for different audience. If you need a fine detail airbrush to supplement the Badger 175, the Renegade seems to be a better fit. You use a Badger and had no complaint. It seems logical to stay with the brand.

The Talon will be more like a general purpose, "do it all", replacement for your Badger 175.

You should read some reviews of them before deciding. Here is one on the Talon. It is interesting that the reviewer said, "The trigger was comfortable but had a rough feel on the backstroke". It sounds like that it needs a little "break-in" before it will work more smoothly. This is not unique to Paasche. My Badger Patriot had the same problem. But my Iwata worked silky smooth from the first day. It is best if you can try out the different options at the LHS before the purchase.

I haven't used either. While the different size tips and needles for the Talon are an attraction I'd probably go with the Badger simply because I don't need to keep up with any tools to tear it down and I do that a lot. I'm accustomed to the way Badgers such as this one assemble and can strip it, clean it and reassemble in just a couple minutes without any tools.

Tony

Keilau is correct, they are not in the same league.

I would take the Badger in a heartbeat over the Paasche.

Interesting enouth, I had a Crescendo.  And I just got myself a Velocity for Christmas.  Here's my opinion on the Velocity so far.

Balance - The brush was designed to sit into your hand. It's a longer brush in the back. I suspect that was to improve balance when you fill the gravity cup. And it's tapered at the point where the brush meets the crook in between your thumb and forefinger.  I can't think of a better balanced brush.  It feels very very solid.

Spray - Great atomization.  You can drop incredibly thin layers on a surface.   However, as with most .20mm, you have to thin your paint well otherwise it will clog the nozzle.   If you're lazy in thinning, then you should consider the Iwata with the .35mm.    Either that or swap out the Velocity parts and insert the .33mm needle and parts from the other Badger Renegade.  Anyways, a lot of people think that this may be one of the best at atomization.  In other words, they layers of paint that you put on a model is so thin that you can still see all the rivets.

Cleaning - Very simple.  You basically spray thinner through until clear, then unscrew the back, take the needle out and wipe clean before reinserting and screwing the back back on.   You do not soak the brush.  You do not take the brush apart. Very much like the Iwatas.

Details - You can work with 1/72 scale up to 1/48 scale. Frankly any of the .20mm detail brush is more than enough for scale model work.  In other words, you can free hand any camouflage.  It does literally do hairline if you need it. 

Trigger - It's a high trigger, with a great and smooth pull.  Mine wasn't as smooth on the push to release air.  So I turned the trigger around (it's symmetrical) and now the push is very smooth.

Problems - It's an ugly brush. It's not chromed nor colored.  The thing looks like a machine part.  The nozzle cap and gravity cup cap are both plastic.   At least I lucked out and got a special edition black.  It is uggglllly.

Conclusion - The Badger Renegade series put all their money into improving the spraying and almost no money into making it shiny and pretty.   Parts that has no effect on a coat of paint got treated badly (cap,  nozzle cap and non-chrome).  Parts that has great effect on a coat of paint got a ton of attention (needle, trigger, balance).

I am glad I started this thread.  After the last few posts I have slowly started swinging the other direction.  I think the biggest thing that struck me was pointing out that the Badger breaks down with no tools.  I completely break down and clean after each session...it just makes me feel better to take that extra precaution.  I have become quite adept at breaking down the Badger, and now am not sure how I would like having to use tools other than my hands to do this everytime.......

Brian 

Ok, the final winner is.......the Badger.  I went ahead and ordered the Renegade Velocity for $92.95 (as well as a quick disconnect set-up so I can use just one hose for both brushes) from TC Graphics and paint.  Free shipping on orders over $60 means I walked away from this purchase spending $101.90 for both items.  What blows my mind is I not only got an order receipt, but a few hours later got a USPS shipping number.  Thats what I call fast service!

Thanks everyone for the helpful information.  I have my first project set aside to try my first attempt at freehanding camo patterns, a cheap PM model I am using as a skill build.

Brian

brickshooter

The nozzle cap and gravity cup cap are both plastic.  

Badger went with the plastic cap on the airbrush as it protects better than the metal ones.