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"Pro Built" models on Ebay...or not.

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  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
"Pro Built" models on Ebay...or not.
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:25 AM

Now, I understand that I'm not the greatest model builder out there...but...

Does anybody else get a chuckle when they see these Ebay listings of "Pro Built" models or even "Museum Quality" models that clearly are not either?  Or listings built by an "Award Winner?"  Heck, I've been to contests where someone gets a first prize simply because they entered the only model in that category.  Is that person really an award winner?  I'll let you decide.

Now I get that "pro" means that you get paid to do something, and maybe these models are a source of income for some.  But in this hobby I personally regard "pro" as quality, not the ability to sell.  "Pro" would put you among the best modelers.  And, to me, "Museum Quality" is the best of the best and only a handful of builders can claim to be in that group (I'm not one of them).

These are just my opinions, of course.  Its late and I'm just ranting.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:26 AM

I must admit, I've looked at some of the pr-built models on e-bay, and asked myself "Would I ever part with $300 for, say a pro-built 1/48 jet ?  The answer is a resounding NO.  I've never understood the mentality of it.  Model Maniac likes to show us builds that his group of modellers build, and I dont understand that either.  Why not just buy a diecast and stick that on your shelf.  The professional builds that I see for sale on the internet are no better than what modellers from this Forum are capable of.  Its the satisfaction of saying "I built that" compared to the apparent satisfaction of saying "look what I have"

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
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  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:51 AM

I have to agree with both you guys.  I myself have to chuckle at some of the prices and "quality" that they are selling as "Pro-Built".  But, in their "defense" there are non-modelers (yes there are people like that in the world Smile) that see them and like them and want them.  Or they buy as a gift for someone.  I remember during my 21 year Air Force career, that during Christmas, EVERY BX would have that vendor in the mall selling the mahogany desk models.  As a modeler, I thought that was funny, but they sold like hotcakes!  When I was stationed at Eglin AFB, Fl, I had a very good friend, and fellow modeler, that would be "commissioned" to build F-15's for people who were retiring or PSCing.  I say commission, but he never would allow them to pay him.  They gave him the funds to buy what he needed to build the kit, and the shop super usually took him out to lunch!  He didn't want to be paid for doing something he loved doing and he would not consider himself a "pro builder".  He was darn good (a lot better than I am), but he did it for the fun of it.  I'm rambling now.  All that to say,  personally I would not buy a "pro-built" model, but there are some, who do not build, that might want to (and don't realize they are not getting "pro" quality).  Whistling

Eagle90

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:53 AM

Wirraway

I must admit, I've looked at some of the pr-built models on e-bay, and asked myself "Would I ever part with $300 for, say a pro-built 1/48 jet ?  The answer is a resounding NO.  I've never understood the mentality of it.  Model Maniac likes to show us builds that his group of modellers build, and I dont understand that either.  Why not just buy a diecast and stick that on your shelf.  The professional builds that I see for sale on the internet are no better than what modellers from this Forum are capable of.  Its the satisfaction of saying "I built that" compared to the apparent satisfaction of saying "look what I have"

I am with you there. I know a few people here do commissions, and if they can make some money out of it, that's great. But I simply don't get the point of buying built models. It defeats the whole point of the hobby. I know every model on my shelves has a bit of me in it. Sweat, time, imagination and occasionally some blood.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:57 AM

Eagle90
But, in their "defense" there are non-modelers (yes there are people like that in the world Smile) that see them and like them and want them.  Or they buy as a gift for someone.

Sure, I guess many non modelers would buy these not realizing that the quality isn't top notch.

But just within the modeling community I would say that calling some of these builds as Pro, Award Winning, or Museum Quality is quite a stretch.  If they posted these builds here in the FSM forums and labeled them as such I can only imagine what people would be saying.  Although the FSM community seems like it would be more nice about it than mean.

On a separate note I've also noticed that the quality of the builds on the side of or in the packaging is less than stellar sometimes.  For example, the "demo" build in the 1/48 Hasegawa F/A-18C with the USS Independence paint job is terrible.  Some of the colors are incorrect and the decals are placed in the wrong places and totally silvered!  Seriously?

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:25 AM

You mean I could make money on this?

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • From: Minnesota City, Minnesota, U.S.A.
Posted by FlyItLikeYouStoleIt on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:35 AM

I wish!!! If I had half the talent of some of the better dudes in here, I would consider trying to make money with this. God, could there be a better job? But, I'm building nowhere near the talent level of museum quaility. I've never even placed in a category at a scale model show but, my neighbor likes my building style and I've been compensated with the gift of old model kits for building models for him, but no money is changing hands.

But yeah, the majority of what I've seen advertised as pro built or museum quality, ummm, aren't.

Bill.

On the bench:  Lindberg 1/32 scale 1934 Ford Coupe and a few rescue projects.

In queue:  Tamiya 1/35 Quad Tractor or a scratch build project.

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:43 AM

I guess I built a "Museum Quality" model and didn't even know it.  

About 40-50 years ago, an Italian company called Pocher released a few 1/8 scale models of Alpha Romeos, Fiats, and Rolls Royces.  They were incredibly complex and contained more metal than plastic. Most of the plastic parts were the body sections and seats.  Lots of special brass machined parts, etc. and everything went together with tiny nuts, bolts, screws, etc.  No glue was used for anything, and linkages even moved like a real car.  They were BIG and heavy from all that metal.

Anyhow, I built two different models over the years.  I have seen one of them (The Alpha 2-seat roadster) in display cases in two auto museums- one in Pennsylvania and another in Colorado.)  And they were dirty and sloppy compared to mine, which have been kept in dust tight display cases and look like mint today!  Not braggin', just feeling good about it!

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:17 PM

Cadet Chuck
Not braggin', just feeling good about it!

That's cool!  Kinda proves the point I'm making that there are guys in these forums who build way better stuff than what you see advertised as "Pro" on Ebay.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:03 PM

The Pocher brand was bought by Hornby and is still producing models.

http://www.pocher.com/index_en.php#home

File:Pocher presentation Nuremberg 2013.JPG

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:17 PM

In MM's favor, if he didn't commission the models, they would not exist.

They are truly pretty good, and some of them could be called works of art.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:21 PM

Thanks!  I didn't know that.  Unfortunately their web site seems to be dead in the water at present.  I'd like to find out if they're anything like the old ones.  They were prohibitively expensive, sold in the $200-$350 range back in the 60's.  I'll keep checking their site until they get their act together.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

AT6
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Fresno
Posted by AT6 on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:14 PM

I've seen some of those "pro-built" models on Ebay and useind the close up feature, so many of them appeared to be no better than any of ours, so I can only surmise that the builder has an over inflated ego. And there is no way in H*#l that I would pay those prices. For what they ask, the stinking thing better cook, clean, and fly by itself.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 PM

Lol, I've had some of my stuff displayed in the local museum- so does that make me a 'museum quality modeler'??"

I've always thought Model Maniac's builders were pretty good is not perfect. I too have seen waaaay worse stuff listed as pro-built. Heck, the Academy AH-64 I'm building for our local transportation museum the kit shown on the sides of the box has some horrific decal silvering!!!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:03 AM

I guess my stance is that we need to let others label us.  I can't really justify self proclaiming I'm a pro or museum quality builder.  If you guys aren't saying that I am then I'm probably not.  I think this should apply to Ebay, as well.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: UK
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:24 AM

A LCVP sold on a well-known auction site recently. I remarked on it here 

Nicely built, well weathered, & heavily RUSTED.... pity it was made of plywood!  

Still sold for UKP£48.00 USD$75.00!  Go figure?

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:02 AM

I guess they fill a need,some people don't build,but they may want a model for display.Any of us here on the forums wouldn't be interested,we all build our own.

And yes some are a joke,I always find myself saying I could do better then that

AT6
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Fresno
Posted by AT6 on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:10 PM

Before he died, a friend of mine was a master modeler. He was never satisfied with the kit interior and would build his own. I saw what he did with a 1/32  P-51 and when finished, It was hard to tell from photos which a model and which the real cockpit. Now if he had placed a model on Ebay as a pro-built kit, I would have agreed. Those people are few and far between.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:58 PM

I think that a good deal of the models labelled as "pro built" are actually pretty nice models---but not worth $100. I think that some of these guys are kidding themselves.

Then again, think if it this way--if you're a prodigious builder and build a kit every month, when you run out of room, whatcha gonna do with them? Might as well list 'em, call them "Pro built", stick a sky-high number on 'em and let em' sit. If even one or two sell, you're in the money! Not a bad proposition?!

I just listed one of mine--the first time I ever tried to sell a model on ebay. I'm curious to see if I even get a bid on it. I DO need to thin mu collection out; hey, maybe I can get rid of some older builds for some money?

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, August 22, 2013 9:13 PM

Let us know when you put "Spooked" on the market.   Big Smile

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, August 23, 2013 8:50 AM

subfixer

Let us know when you put "Spooked" on the market.   Big Smile

Ha ha---not likely! Smile

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, August 23, 2013 8:55 AM

Bang Head

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
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  • From: Surrey B.C. Canada
Posted by Subhuman1 on Friday, August 23, 2013 10:22 AM
I think problem goes deeper, with the modern mindset of a lot of people nowadays, we don't want to wait/work/earn anything. We want to whip out the plastic, charge it, and play. Instant gratification.

I personally don't see the point in the "pre builts" other than as a conversation for someone who wants a one off piece to use as a decoration.

I myself hate the mentally that has made us so dependent on a disposable life style, but that aside. I just finished building a loft bed for my son, with a desk and book case underneath, plan on building a bed for my wife and I, that will double up as storage space (although she has made it quite clear what the athstetics of it will be :) and I am now in the process of building a knock down able modeling desk/work are out of the common wood scraps in the garage to make room for that project. I could of bought all these items, for probably less than the cost of building them myway, and had it over and done with. The one thing that would be missing though, is the personal satisfaction that all those projects bring.

Much like our scale modeling, people may not understand the desire to work in miniature, risking thumbs and other digits against surgically sharp blades. But it is the escape, and the sense of completion and satisfaction that comes afterwards. And that dogged determination not to be beat by a box of styrene.

I hope to install this same bit of ethic in my son, even if he doesn't develope the same intrest in scale modeling, I can only hope he develops the same sense of personal satisfaction from working with his hands, and actually doing for himself.
  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Surrey B.C. Canada
Posted by Subhuman1 on Friday, August 23, 2013 10:23 AM
Exscuse the typos, the above was done from my iPhone :)
  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:02 AM

I have to comment here :

   When I see these " PRO " built models I do have a good laugh  . I have built for companies and museums . Does that make me a " PRO " .? I gues in some folks eyes , Yes . Well , I tend to disagree . I do not make a regular income from it and it's sometimes worse than a job . But , I love to build . Now if someone contacts me to build something I will consider it , if only because there,s nobody else around here that does it ! I don't compete usually in model shows because I have built for the aforementioned entities . I feel my skills may be somewhat more then these guys and gals have . Let them enjoy themselves and if judging I will be fair and non-commital about the skill level .They built it , they got satisfaction from that , and who am I to take that away ? I guess I am that  "Pro " that likes to share his skills though , that way I pay it forward .  Tanker - Builder .

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, August 30, 2013 2:31 PM

I couldn't agree with you more about the people who don't want to put the time and effort into learning the "tricks of the trade", but I'm happy to make some money from them if I can find a home for some of my "babies". I have three bookcases of models at my parents' house in Pa; we're talking around 9 shelves each (I add shelves) with about 6-7 models on each, give or take, on probably 80% of the shelves. Then I have 1.5 bookcases up at my fiance's mom's house, and one in NC at home. I'm simply running out of room, and if I don't sell some of them, they're going to either get ruined in any move I might make eventually, or just trashed for lack of display space.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Saturday, August 31, 2013 4:01 PM

I'm not laughing at people who sell their models.  I'm laughing at people who say they are pro and clearly are not.

Heck, I've thought about selling some of mine but I definitely would not list them as pro.  Award winning?  Sure.  I've got several of those.  Pro?  I don't think so.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 4:53 PM
I the the whole "pro" usage is also comes frome the over usage of superlatives. Nothing is "nice" or "good" anymore, no, it is "great", "fantastic" or even "epic".
I also have a good laugh when I see all the "rare", "limited" or "vintage" models on Ebay. Selling of your unwanted stash is one thing, but labelling common kits as rare is silly.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Friday, September 6, 2013 8:48 AM

While I agree with most of the sentiment so far, don't forget that there are many veterans out there who are not modelers who would like a model of the aircraft/ship/armor they served in. Not to mention family members of those veterans. I've built a couple of those for that purpose.

  • Member since
    October 2013
Posted by Babalu1201 on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:03 AM

I'm one of those guys you are talking about that sells built models on Ebay.  First of all I do not claim to be a so called "Pro Builder" or the builder of "Museum Quality" models.   I believe that the models I build are of above average quality, but nothing more.  The prices I ask are little more than what I have in them.  I'm a police officer by profession and build as a hobby on the side.  I found, like many of you that my own collection was busting at the seems and had little display space.  So I decided to sell some of my collection.  I found, by surprise, that there was a market for these models on Ebay.  Also like many of you i would not purchase a pre-built model as it defets the purpose.  I was amazed that I was averaging 12-15 thousand dollars a year building and selling these pre-built models on Ebay.  It has become almost a second income and buisness.  Finally I asked a couple of my regular customers why they were spending such large amounts of money on these average builds.  In every case I was told that they loved the hobby, the excitment of collecting and the thrill of the bid.  They all confessed that they all lacked the skill and time to do it themselve, and I provided a cheap alternative.  So call it what you want, these people selling these builds on Ebay are providing a service.  Now how you refer to them "Pro Built" or "Museum Quality" or "Award Winning" is to be taken with a grain of salt and is in the eye of the beholder.        

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